Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:28 am

Okay, so I just filled out all of my OCI apps my school has coming this year (roughly 35 large firms) and I'm basically wondering if I should start mass mailing or what now (and if so, when do I start mailing?). My school placed roughly 12% into biglaw according to the most recent NLJ250 data. I'm not big law or bust, although I'll be busting my ass trying to get a biglaw job. According to someone similarly ranked last year, I'll end up with ~20 interviews from OCI. FWIW, I'm an excellent interviewer (I had roughly top 30% grades after first semester, and snagged a CB for a 1L SA and was informed I was their next choice and if one bailed I would have had the job - so it had to be my interviewing that got me there).

Now, my preferred practice area is environmental law. Are my grades good enough for a) a local EPA office (Philadelphia) or b) a State environmental department? Assuming both of those are out, do I have any other options outside of big firms that have environmental practices?

Is there anything else I should be looking for? As another side note, I have a few people advising me on how to approach getting the EIC position on the secondary, and intend to bust my ass next year trying for it and trying to get published.

(also to those who helped out in the transfer thread, I ultimately decided to stay put because it seems I'll be getting some phat cash from my current school)

barry
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby barry » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:28 am

get mailing dude, people are already securing interviews, you have a decent shot at getting something

gradesmatter
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:05 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby gradesmatter » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:18 am

beach_terror wrote:Okay, so I just filled out all of my OCI apps my school has coming this year (roughly 35 large firms) and I'm basically wondering if I should start mass mailing or what now (and if so, when do I start mailing?). My school placed roughly 12% into biglaw according to the most recent NLJ250 data. I'm not big law or bust, although I'll be busting my ass trying to get a biglaw job. According to someone similarly ranked last year, I'll end up with ~20 interviews from OCI. FWIW, I'm an excellent interviewer (I had roughly top 30% grades after first semester, and snagged a CB for a 1L SA and was informed I was their next choice and if one bailed I would have had the job - so it had to be my interviewing that got me there).

Now, my preferred practice area is environmental law. Are my grades good enough for a) a local EPA office (Philadelphia) or b) a State environmental department? Assuming both of those are out, do I have any other options outside of big firms that have environmental practices?

Is there anything else I should be looking for? As another side note, I have a few people advising me on how to approach getting the EIC position on the secondary, and intend to bust my ass next year trying for it and trying to get published.

(also to those who helped out in the transfer thread, I ultimately decided to stay put because it seems I'll be getting some phat cash from my current school)


you gotta mass mail firms asap

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:51 am

The time to mass mail is immediately.

You need to look through the NALP directory and martindale hubbel and any other source you can find to target a list of firms far beyond those coming to OCI in the region(s) you wish to work and you need to send them a cover letter, a resume, and a transcript. Email attachments are fine, as is mail.

You should do that this weekend and at least send a first wave of materials Monday. The 'window' for getting a summer associate position at a firm via mass mailing is closing as we speak. It would probably be fine to wait a week... but for something this important, I'd kick it into high gear.

You likely have a shot at the gov't gigs you mentioned, but with hiring freezes, the budget crisis, and the small size / hiring needs of such employers it's not something you can reliably get out of law school no matter what your creds.

User avatar
geekrocker37
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:26 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby geekrocker37 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:49 am

In a similar spot to OP; What should mass mail entail? Resume + Transcript + CV? Should I include WS? Should it be email or snail mail?

I apologize if the answers seem obvious; I feel completely in the dark about this.

Aston2412
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:23 am

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby Aston2412 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:42 pm

I thought Mass Mailing was open until Aug 1 (that's the date I'd heard basically everywhere). Is this wrong?

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby Grizz » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:05 pm

Aston2412 wrote:I thought Mass Mailing was open until Aug 1 (that's the date I'd heard basically everywhere). Is this wrong?

That's like two weeks away. Seems rapidly closing to me.

User avatar
IrwinM.Fletcher
Posts: 1196
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:55 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:10 pm

Aston2412 wrote:I thought Mass Mailing was open until Aug 1 (that's the date I'd heard basically everywhere). Is this wrong?


Think of it this way: Some firms treat mass mailing like rolling admissions, with things kicking off around July 1. Nobody grants very many mailer interviews so being the early bird is do or die at these firms.

Other firms will accept and file all the mailers up until they begin callbacks from OCI. At these firms, it doesn't matter at all whether you sent it in on July 1 or August 1 because they simply won't evaluate you until after they have an idea what their candidate pool looks like.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease in both groups.

stormy
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:06 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby stormy » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:16 pm

blasted DLA Piper this morning...now comes the waiting....

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:23 pm

Thank you for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm going to email just so things move as quickly as possible at this point (is this a good idea?). If anyone has any Philly/Wilmington area suggestions, any advice would be awesome at this point.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:33 pm

Second question: when mass mailing I don't need to break from the super generic cover letter do I? My cover letter is basically talking myself up and throwing in the firms name in and then saying I'm interested in *insert largest or most interesting practices in the firm* but I'd be eager to gain experience in any area.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:06 pm

Re: Timing - It's still probably on the early end, but it's a short window. I'd say mid-July is probably ideal. On the later end, you can always send a letter and hope, but by August firms will be moving on other candidates / career fairs and so the window will be closing.

Beach_Terror: Generic cover letter should be fine.

geekrocker37 wrote:In a similar spot to OP; What should mass mail entail? Resume + Transcript + CV? Should I include WS? Should it be email or snail mail?

I apologize if the answers seem obvious; I feel completely in the dark about this.


Resume + Transcript + Cover Letter. Writing Sample is optional, I wouldn't (most firms don't care, most 1L writing samples suck). Email or snail mail are both fine, depends on the contact info you can find for a firm.

User avatar
billbrasky
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:22 am

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby billbrasky » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:50 pm

gradesmatter wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Okay, so I just filled out all of my OCI apps my school has coming this year (roughly 35 large firms) and I'm basically wondering if I should start mass mailing or what now (and if so, when do I start mailing?). My school placed roughly 12% into biglaw according to the most recent NLJ250 data. I'm not big law or bust, although I'll be busting my ass trying to get a biglaw job. According to someone similarly ranked last year, I'll end up with ~20 interviews from OCI. FWIW, I'm an excellent interviewer (I had roughly top 30% grades after first semester, and snagged a CB for a 1L SA and was informed I was their next choice and if one bailed I would have had the job - so it had to be my interviewing that got me there).

Now, my preferred practice area is environmental law. Are my grades good enough for a) a local EPA office (Philadelphia) or b) a State environmental department? Assuming both of those are out, do I have any other options outside of big firms that have environmental practices?

Is there anything else I should be looking for? As another side note, I have a few people advising me on how to approach getting the EIC position on the secondary, and intend to bust my ass next year trying for it and trying to get published.

(also to those who helped out in the transfer thread, I ultimately decided to stay put because it seems I'll be getting some phat cash from my current school)


you gotta mass mail firms asap


now that's what I call a lolci

User avatar
IrwinM.Fletcher
Posts: 1196
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:55 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:04 pm

billbrasky wrote:
gradesmatter wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Okay, so I just filled out all of my OCI apps my school has coming this year (roughly 35 large firms) and I'm basically wondering if I should start mass mailing or what now (and if so, when do I start mailing?). My school placed roughly 12% into biglaw according to the most recent NLJ250 data. I'm not big law or bust, although I'll be busting my ass trying to get a biglaw job. According to someone similarly ranked last year, I'll end up with ~20 interviews from OCI. FWIW, I'm an excellent interviewer (I had roughly top 30% grades after first semester, and snagged a CB for a 1L SA and was informed I was their next choice and if one bailed I would have had the job - so it had to be my interviewing that got me there).

Now, my preferred practice area is environmental law. Are my grades good enough for a) a local EPA office (Philadelphia) or b) a State environmental department? Assuming both of those are out, do I have any other options outside of big firms that have environmental practices?

Is there anything else I should be looking for? As another side note, I have a few people advising me on how to approach getting the EIC position on the secondary, and intend to bust my ass next year trying for it and trying to get published.

(also to those who helped out in the transfer thread, I ultimately decided to stay put because it seems I'll be getting some phat cash from my current school)


you gotta mass mail firms asap


now that's what I call a lolci


That's actually pretty impressive for a T2. One you get below the UCLA/USC/Vanderbilt level, it's extremely rare to see more than 40 NALP firms coming to campus. Some schools outperform their ranking significantly (SMU), others take it in the grapes despite being T30(UMN, Indiana, Iowa, etc.). My T1 has maaaaaybe 25 nalp firms attending.

User avatar
Heartford
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:02 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby Heartford » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:04 pm

billbrasky wrote:
gradesmatter wrote:
beach_terror wrote:Okay, so I just filled out all of my OCI apps my school has coming this year (roughly 35 large firms) and I'm basically wondering if I should start mass mailing or what now (and if so, when do I start mailing?). My school placed roughly 12% into biglaw according to the most recent NLJ250 data. I'm not big law or bust, although I'll be busting my ass trying to get a biglaw job. According to someone similarly ranked last year, I'll end up with ~20 interviews from OCI. FWIW, I'm an excellent interviewer (I had roughly top 30% grades after first semester, and snagged a CB for a 1L SA and was informed I was their next choice and if one bailed I would have had the job - so it had to be my interviewing that got me there).

Now, my preferred practice area is environmental law. Are my grades good enough for a) a local EPA office (Philadelphia) or b) a State environmental department? Assuming both of those are out, do I have any other options outside of big firms that have environmental practices?

Is there anything else I should be looking for? As another side note, I have a few people advising me on how to approach getting the EIC position on the secondary, and intend to bust my ass next year trying for it and trying to get published.

(also to those who helped out in the transfer thread, I ultimately decided to stay put because it seems I'll be getting some phat cash from my current school)


you gotta mass mail firms asap


now that's what I call a lolci


That beats the 10-15 big firms coming to my school!

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:14 pm

Heartford wrote:That beats the 10-15 big firms coming to my school!

Booyah! (but not really :cry:)

merc280
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:52 am

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby merc280 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 6:22 pm

is it normal to mass mail all of the top 250 firms if a person doesn't have a preference on region?

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:33 pm

merc280 wrote:is it normal to mass mail all of the top 250 firms if a person doesn't have a preference on region?


No.

The NLJ 250 is in no way the top 250 firms. It is simply a list, from largest to smallest, of the 250 largest law firms in the united states.

Applying across the country is a foolish strategy. You need to focus your job search.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:16 pm

How should I treat firms that have a Philly office but are really headquartered elsewhere. The Philly offices are roughly 5-10 attorneys, but the main office is typically 2 hours away and is substantially larger. I'm assuming the SA program is only based out of the main office - should I just skip these firms (I have been).

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:21 pm

Makes sense to me; NALPdirectory.com hopefully lists at least whether the major names have summer programs there or not.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:24 pm

thesealocust wrote:Makes sense to me; NALPdirectory.com hopefully lists at least whether the major names have summer programs there or not.

I've found NALP to be pretty useless for the Philadelphia market. Just sorting by Philadelphia firms only yields 30 some results. A lot of the stuff I'm stumbling across on Martindale is pretty weak too. Have some apps ready to send out Monday morning though.

User avatar
billbrasky
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:22 am

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby billbrasky » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:34 pm

beach_terror wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Makes sense to me; NALPdirectory.com hopefully lists at least whether the major names have summer programs there or not.

I've found NALP to be pretty useless for the Philadelphia market. Just sorting by Philadelphia firms only yields 30 some results. A lot of the stuff I'm stumbling across on Martindale is pretty weak too. Have some apps ready to send out Monday morning though.


That's because Philly doesn't have a ton of biglaw firms like New York. If you're looking for market paying gigs, take the advice on this board and target NYC.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:37 pm

billbrasky wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Makes sense to me; NALPdirectory.com hopefully lists at least whether the major names have summer programs there or not.

I've found NALP to be pretty useless for the Philadelphia market. Just sorting by Philadelphia firms only yields 30 some results. A lot of the stuff I'm stumbling across on Martindale is pretty weak too. Have some apps ready to send out Monday morning though.


That's because Philly doesn't have a ton of biglaw firms like New York. If you're looking for market paying gigs, take the advice on this board and target NYC.

Not necessarily looking for market paying gigs, mainly just looking for places that are hiring. Do I have a shot at a market paying job in NYC?

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:37 pm

beach_terror wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Makes sense to me; NALPdirectory.com hopefully lists at least whether the major names have summer programs there or not.

I've found NALP to be pretty useless for the Philadelphia market. Just sorting by Philadelphia firms only yields 30 some results. A lot of the stuff I'm stumbling across on Martindale is pretty weak too. Have some apps ready to send out Monday morning though.


As billbrasky alluded, that's a Philly problem, not a NALP / Martindale problem.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7249
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: Top 15% @ T2, secondary journal - need advice

Postby beach_terror » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:26 pm

I don't know dick about NYC firms (lived in Philly my entire life). Are there any that I should most definitely avoid and some that I should target, as I have a reasonable shot of at least getting some sort of initial interview? Apologies for the derpness.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.