Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

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zILch
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Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby zILch » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:31 pm

Can I send an email blast this afternoon or should I wait until Monday? Does it matter at all?

timbs4339
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:33 pm

zILch wrote:Can I send an email blast this afternoon or should I wait until Monday? Does it matter at all?


You're still on the early side. You can wait.

kaiser
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:34 pm

zILch wrote:Can I send an email blast this afternoon or should I wait until Monday? Does it matter at all?


Doesn't at all matter. You are talking a difference of one business day, not a month (or even a week)

gradesmatter
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby gradesmatter » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:53 pm

blast them now while they still have openings

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:15 pm

gradesmatter wrote:blast them now while they still have openings


This.

While you're waiting around trying to time the mass blast just perfectly, I'm following up for the third time on the materials I sent in two weeks ago. If we have the same stats, guess who the interview goes to?

kaiser
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:17 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
gradesmatter wrote:blast them now while they still have openings


This.

While you're waiting around trying to time the mass blast just perfectly, I'm following up for the third time on the materials I sent in two weeks ago. If we have the same stats, guess who the interview goes to?


Not necessarily true. I spoke to the HR people in a number of large firms, and they said that it is just now the time to start with this, and anything that came into them in the past few weeks has just been sitting in the inbox not really getting a look, since it was too early. Bombarding them with communication when they aren't in hiring gear isn't going to get you anywhere. Thats particularly true if your initial application was just part of some blanket resume bomb without any tailoring for individual firms.

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:22 pm

kaiser wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
gradesmatter wrote:blast them now while they still have openings


This.

While you're waiting around trying to time the mass blast just perfectly, I'm following up for the third time on the materials I sent in two weeks ago. If we have the same stats, guess who the interview goes to?


Not necessarily true. I spoke to the HR people in a number of large firms, and they said that it is just now the time to start with this, and anything that came into them in the past few weeks has just been sitting in the inbox not really getting a look, since it was too early. Bombarding them with communication when they aren't in hiring gear isn't going to get you anywhere.


It depends on the firm, of course. If they explicitly say don't send it yet...then don't send it yet. But I've already scheduled 4 callbacks through persistent follow up, so I'd say sending now and getting it in gear is absolutely the smart move.

P.s. no matter when you send it, your stuff's gonna end up in the same file folder and almost certainly won't get scrutinized closely unless you call them. Follow up is 100% key, and you can't be a total aspie on the phone.

kaiser
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:24 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
kaiser wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
gradesmatter wrote:blast them now while they still have openings


This.

While you're waiting around trying to time the mass blast just perfectly, I'm following up for the third time on the materials I sent in two weeks ago. If we have the same stats, guess who the interview goes to?


Not necessarily true. I spoke to the HR people in a number of large firms, and they said that it is just now the time to start with this, and anything that came into them in the past few weeks has just been sitting in the inbox not really getting a look, since it was too early. Bombarding them with communication when they aren't in hiring gear isn't going to get you anywhere.


It depends on the firm, of course. If they explicitly say don't send it yet...then don't send it yet. But I've already scheduled 4 callbacks through persistent follow up, so I'd say sending now and getting it in gear is absolutely the smart move.

P.s. no matter when you send it, your stuff's gonna end up in the same file folder and almost certainly won't get scrutinized closely unless you call them. Follow up is 100% key, and you can't be a total aspie on the phone.


Congrats on getting all that set up so far. Are you following up just with the recruiting contact? Or with other people in the firm?

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:30 pm

kaiser wrote:Congrats on getting all that set up so far. Are you following up just with the recruiting contact? Or with other people in the firm?


Usually the recruiter. My school has an alumn who is the hiring partner of one of the firms, so I worked mostly through him for that one. But the others have just been following with the various recruiting contacts listed on either the firm site or nalp form.

applejacks
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby applejacks » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:33 pm

I've been mass blasting firms for nearly two weeks now--why are you starting so late? There won't be any spots left

timbs4339
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:50 pm

They'll still have openings a month from now, OCI recruiting hasn't even started yet. It really makes no difference whether you do this now or on Monday. It's too late today anyway.

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romothesavior
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:51 pm

applejacks wrote:I've been mass blasting firms for nearly two weeks now--why are you starting so late? There won't be any spots left

Lol no

kaiser
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:56 pm

romothesavior wrote:
applejacks wrote:I've been mass blasting firms for nearly two weeks now--why are you starting so late? There won't be any spots left

Lol no


I'm pretty sure he is joking. Given that the firms are just now even starting to get in the swing of things, with a few exceptions, its not like submitting in the next few days is "too late".

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:56 pm

timbs4339 wrote:They'll still have openings a month from now, OCI recruiting hasn't even started yet. It really makes no difference whether you do this now or on Monday. It's too late today anyway.


From what I've seen so far there are 2 types of firms. The first type will not schedule any write-in interviews until they are done with OCI. If they are dissatisfied with their pool at that point, they throw the table scraps to the most qualified mailers who haven't been snapped up yet. It seems like more than half of the big firms fit this approach.

The second, smaller group of firms will give callbacks to write-in people who are more qualified than what they anticipate snagging through OCI. These firms usually have a recruiter who has a lot of say in the process and doesn't have to jump through sixteen hoops to set up an interview. The caveat, however, is that they're only going to set up a few of these because it's off schedule and sort of a pain in the ass. Being early at these firms is key or else people like me will beat you to the opportunity.

kaiser
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby kaiser » Fri Jul 15, 2011 4:58 pm

And remember OP, you can submit on the weekend as well. I think that it is smart to spend the day researching firms and adding some personalization to cover letters, rather than just sending out something generic. If it will help out the strength of your application, it is worth waiting just a few days.

robert85
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby robert85 » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:11 pm

why not just blast them tomorrow? why wait til monday?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:18 pm

I think the OPs concern is that recruiters don't work on weekends so if he emailed Friday nobody would look at it and it would get buried by a ton of other emails by Monday morning.

barry
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby barry » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:38 pm

P.s. no matter when you send it, your stuff's gonna end up in the same file folder and almost certainly won't get scrutinized closely unless you call them. Follow up is 100% key, and you can't be a total aspie on the phone.

[/quote]
Hey Irwin, in regards to your follow up how long are you waiting after you mail til you call them and what exactly are you saying? Just hey this is irvin did you get my materials?

edit: is ok to follow up by email or is that aspie? haha.... also would you really attribute your cb's to following up or are your grades sky high at some T14? (cause 4 cb's is alot from what i understand)
Last edited by barry on Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doritos
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby Doritos » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:44 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
kaiser wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
gradesmatter wrote:blast them now while they still have openings


This.

While you're waiting around trying to time the mass blast just perfectly, I'm following up for the third time on the materials I sent in two weeks ago. If we have the same stats, guess who the interview goes to?


Not necessarily true. I spoke to the HR people in a number of large firms, and they said that it is just now the time to start with this, and anything that came into them in the past few weeks has just been sitting in the inbox not really getting a look, since it was too early. Bombarding them with communication when they aren't in hiring gear isn't going to get you anywhere.


It depends on the firm, of course. If they explicitly say don't send it yet...then don't send it yet. But I've already scheduled 4 callbacks through persistent follow up, so I'd say sending now and getting it in gear is absolutely the smart move.

P.s. no matter when you send it, your stuff's gonna end up in the same file folder and almost certainly won't get scrutinized closely unless you call them. Follow up is 100% key, and you can't be a total aspie on the phone.


You got callbacks in the sense that you are spending half a day with the firm meeting w/ like 6 attorneys? Not the 20-30 minute screener?

barry
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby barry » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:47 pm

.[/quote]

You got callbacks in the sense that you are spending half a day with the firm meeting w/ like 6 attorneys? Not the 20-30 minute screener?
[/quote]

if you get an interview through mailing they treat it as a callback

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:21 pm

So far all of the scheduled interviews are for anywhere between five and eight hours and include lunch, etc. Not really a traditional callback, but it's operatively the same thing.

barry wrote:
P.s. no matter when you send it, your stuff's gonna end up in the same file folder and almost certainly won't get scrutinized closely unless you call them. Follow up is 100% key, and you can't be a total aspie on the phone.


Hey Irwin, in regards to your follow up how long are you waiting after you mail til you call them and what exactly are you saying? Just hey this is irvin did you get my materials?

edit: is ok to follow up by email or is that aspie? haha.... also would you really attribute your cb's to following up or are your grades sky high at some T14? (cause 4 cb's is alot from what i understand)[/quote]

I wouldn't email to follow up. Most of the battle is getting your name out of the shitpile and into the hands of someone on the hiring committee who can make an interview happen. You generally do this by calling and making the recruiter like you (you've got about a five second window where she'll decide whether to help you or trash your shit b/c you're annoying, awkward, etc.), and I don't think there's really a set script for how to go about this. After a little bit you sort of figure out what works best for you.

That said, I'm near the very top of my class at a T1 (nowhere close to T14 territory). You definitely need to have the grades in order to bag an interview through mailers- no recruiter is going to altruistically reward some guy with a B average just because he's a persistent little fuck. But if you're qualified, you've got a shot.

barry
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby barry » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:35 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:So far all of the scheduled interviews are for anywhere between five and eight hours and include lunch, etc. Not really a traditional callback, but it's operatively the same thing.

barry wrote:
P.s. no matter when you send it, your stuff's gonna end up in the same file folder and almost certainly won't get scrutinized closely unless you call them. Follow up is 100% key, and you can't be a total aspie on the phone.


Hey Irwin, in regards to your follow up how long are you waiting after you mail til you call them and what exactly are you saying? Just hey this is irvin did you get my materials?

edit: is ok to follow up by email or is that aspie? haha.... also would you really attribute your cb's to following up or are your grades sky high at some T14? (cause 4 cb's is alot from what i understand)


I wouldn't email to follow up. Most of the battle is getting your name out of the shitpile and into the hands of someone on the hiring committee who can make an interview happen. You generally do this by calling and making the recruiter like you (you've got about a five second window where she'll decide whether to help you or trash your shit b/c you're annoying, awkward, etc.),
and I don't think there's really a set script for how to go about this. After a little bit you sort of figure out what works best for you.

That said, I'm near the very top of my class at a T1 (nowhere close to T14 territory). You definitely need to have the grades in order to bag an interview through mailers- no recruiter is going to altruistically reward some guy with a B average just because he's a persistent little fuck. But if you're qualified, you've got a shot.[/quote]

Thanks man for the advice, I hadn't really thought about following up before

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:53 pm

Irwin, I understand where you are coming from with "there is no set script; go with what works for you," but is the general thrust of your first call just to build a quick rapport with the recruiter and "make sure" they got your materials? Also, how many days did you wait after emailing? Is email better than mail?

Finally, what about using another person at the firm to get your resume moved up in the stack? Either reaching out to someone you've met at the firm with a "fyi I sent an application to your firm" or just a random alum of the same school... Thoughts?

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:15 pm

Lieut Kaffee wrote:Irwin, I understand where you are coming from with "there is no set script; go with what works for you," but is the general thrust of your first call just to build a quick rapport with the recruiter and "make sure" they got your materials? Also, how many days did you wait after emailing? Is email better than mail?

Finally, what about using another person at the firm to get your resume moved up in the stack? Either reaching out to someone you've met at the firm with a "fyi I sent an application to your firm" or just a random alum of the same school... Thoughts?


Good questions. Here's what I did: For firms where I had no 'in' whatsoever (no alumni, never met anyone there, only know the firm by reputation/nalp/chambers/etc.), I tried to call the recruiters back at the end of June to introduce myself and let them know that I was going to be applying. A lot of them don't have their gatekeepers guard the phones as viciously at this point in time because no one is nagging them yet. They probably thought I worked in a CSO or something. Depending on the firm and what the instructions are on their site, I might also ask specifically what materials she would like (writing sample? If so, what length? etc.) and just try to build a quick rapport. Nothing major. If they're talkative, chat them up. Talk about what groups they anticipate hiring more heavily in if you've researched the firm. Commiserate about how early this stupid process starts now. But if they're in a hurry and your call is obviously an annoyance, don't force it.

I usually waited about 2-4 days after sending before following up to make sure they'd received everything. Just touching base and friendly BS'ing if they're open to it. Then, maybe three to four days later, I called to update them on some very specific travel commitments I have and asked if interviews would be possible during the times I'd be available. Most said: (1) NO; or (2) they'd have to check and get back with me. For the ones who had to check, I just continue to call and see if there's any progress, anything I can do to help, etc. During this time frame, I've also contacted some senior associates and partners in departments I'm interested in at these firms and requested informational interviews. This gives another opportunity to network and get that app in the right hands with a friendly nudge from someone who matters.

Caveat: Most recruiters don't wanna talk. Most firms don't consider mailers until after OCI. Most of them say no. Expect it and don't take it personally. But everyone knows this kind of stuff is low-yield to begin with- just keep plugging away.

If you know somebody at the firm/there's a large alumni presence, then I would definitely milk that for all it's worth. Unfortunately my school's not very close to my target markets so I've had very little opportunity to do this. But certainly don't just email your stuff to the recruiter without a peep to your contacts if you've got em.

gingersnaps
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Re: Biglaw Mass Mail on Friday?

Postby gingersnaps » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:38 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
Lieut Kaffee wrote:Irwin, I understand where you are coming from with "there is no set script; go with what works for you," but is the general thrust of your first call just to build a quick rapport with the recruiter and "make sure" they got your materials? Also, how many days did you wait after emailing? Is email better than mail?

Finally, what about using another person at the firm to get your resume moved up in the stack? Either reaching out to someone you've met at the firm with a "fyi I sent an application to your firm" or just a random alum of the same school... Thoughts?


Good questions. Here's what I did: For firms where I had no 'in' whatsoever (no alumni, never met anyone there, only know the firm by reputation/nalp/chambers/etc.), I tried to call the recruiters back at the end of June to introduce myself and let them know that I was going to be applying. A lot of them don't have their gatekeepers guard the phones as viciously at this point in time because no one is nagging them yet. They probably thought I worked in a CSO or something. Depending on the firm and what the instructions are on their site, I might also ask specifically what materials she would like (writing sample? If so, what length? etc.) and just try to build a quick rapport. Nothing major. If they're talkative, chat them up. Talk about what groups they anticipate hiring more heavily in if you've researched the firm. Commiserate about how early this stupid process starts now. But if they're in a hurry and your call is obviously an annoyance, don't force it.

I usually waited about 2-4 days after sending before following up to make sure they'd received everything. Just touching base and friendly BS'ing if they're open to it. Then, maybe three to four days later, I called to update them on some very specific travel commitments I have and asked if interviews would be possible during the times I'd be available. Most said: (1) NO; or (2) they'd have to check and get back with me. For the ones who had to check, I just continue to call and see if there's any progress, anything I can do to help, etc. During this time frame, I've also contacted some senior associates and partners in departments I'm interested in at these firms and requested informational interviews. This gives another opportunity to network and get that app in the right hands with a friendly nudge from someone who matters.

Caveat: Most recruiters don't wanna talk. Most firms don't consider mailers until after OCI. Most of them say no. Expect it and don't take it personally. But everyone knows this kind of stuff is low-yield to begin with- just keep plugging away.

If you know somebody at the firm/there's a large alumni presence, then I would definitely milk that for all it's worth. Unfortunately my school's not very close to my target markets so I've had very little opportunity to do this. But certainly don't just email your stuff to the recruiter without a peep to your contacts if you've got em.


care to out the firms that are receptive to followups?




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