How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

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Lawquacious
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How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:41 pm

OCI novice. I have reviewed some past threads and didn't find anything too helpful. I think the firm doesn't even see the number you ranked them, so not sure what good the rank does... Does it give you priority over other students if you bid a firm higher than them? What are the basic principles and strategy behind ranking bids?

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Bronte
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby Bronte » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:05 pm

In your basic system (where there's no "preselect," meaning the firms choose some students for screening interviews by credentials before hand), you rank the firms you want from one to say thirty. The firms don't see those rankings. The law school's automated system then selects interviews for you based on a random process. The random process gives priority to the firms you rank higher. So whether or not you get a screening interview with a given firm depends on how high you rank them, how many other students bid on them, and how high those students rank them.

That's how I understand it. Don't know much about preselect.

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thesealocust
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:13 pm

The basic strategy is as follows: You want to bid the firm which you are most likely to receive an interview at last on your list (either because they will pre-select you or because they are so oupopular you'll get the interview in the lottery no matter what). You want your top bid to be the firm that is least likely for you to get due to popularity or their usual creds being higher than yours in a pre-select system. Then you need to filter it down so that you have a realistic chance at all of those firms.

Of course nobody has perfect info, so it's pretty kitbash. But firms won't see where you rank them, and getting interviews is (in a system with any lottery) based on where you rank a firm + how many interviews they do + how many other people bid on the firm + where they rank that firm.

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englawyer
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:31 pm

the key point is that the rank of bids should not be based on your rank of where you would like to work (IE putting dream firms/reaches in the top few slots). these firms usually have plenty of interview spots and are underbid because everyone is playing it conservative, so they don't merit your precious top few slots.

instead, you should rank based on how hard it will be to get an interview. if you have old stats from previous OCI, a good proxy is the ratio of screening interviews/bids. the higher the number, the easier it will be to get the screening interview, and thus a lower rank on your bidlist.

some firms might even have screening interviews/bids > 1, which means that you could pick up interviews during OCI by dropping off a resume. such firms should be low on your bid list, if at all (assuming the same thing will happen this year).

barry
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby barry » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:36 pm

Since UVA does the Top 5 preselect thing does that mean the firms know if you ranked them in the top 5, and if they do does that mean it will increase a chance of a cb?

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thesealocust
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:39 pm

barry wrote:Since UVA does the Top 5 preselect thing does that mean the firms know if you ranked them in the top 5, and if they do does that mean it will increase a chance of a cb?


(1) Reading the memo I didn't see top 5 stuff this year like there was last year. Did I just read it wrong?

(2) Under last year's system, yes, every firm would hypothetically be able to know if you bid them top 5 or not.

(3) I do not believe it had any bearing on callback probability, at least controlled for rational self-interest (i.e. people using top 5 bids on firms that they fit well with).

(4) Random Fact: I got curious and checked my bid list, and it turns out I'm working for my #6 bid. Lawl.

barry
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby barry » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:48 pm

thesealocust wrote:
barry wrote:Since UVA does the Top 5 preselect thing does that mean the firms know if you ranked them in the top 5, and if they do does that mean it will increase a chance of a cb?


(1) Reading the memo I didn't see top 5 stuff this year like there was last year. Did I just read it wrong?

(2) Under last year's system, yes, every firm would hypothetically be able to know if you bid them top 5 or not.

(3) I do not believe it had any bearing on callback probability, at least controlled for rational self-interest (i.e. people using top 5 bids on firms that they fit well with).

(4) Random Fact: I got curious and checked my bid list, and it turns out I'm working for my #6 bid. Lawl.


Oh, yea you're prolly right, i guess i just kept hearing about it in threads from last year and assumed it was the same haha

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GeePee
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby GeePee » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:44 am

englawyer wrote:the key point is that the rank of bids should not be based on your rank of where you would like to work (IE putting dream firms/reaches in the top few slots). these firms usually have plenty of interview spots and are underbid because everyone is playing it conservative, so they don't merit your precious top few slots.

instead, you should rank based on how hard it will be to get an interview. if you have old stats from previous OCI, a good proxy is the ratio of screening interviews/bids. the higher the number, the easier it will be to get the screening interview, and thus a lower rank on your bidlist.

some firms might even have screening interviews/bids > 1, which means that you could pick up interviews during OCI by dropping off a resume. such firms should be low on your bid list, if at all (assuming the same thing will happen this year).

Except at HLS, where a quarter of the entire class bids on Williams and Connolly and Boies Schiller has like 3.5 times as many bids as interview slots.

People have some serious hubris around these parts.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:57 am

Is it crazy to fill up your first 8 spots (out of 60) with lit boutiques who don't have too many interview slots (and a few are crazy selective)? At UT and we have a 70% preselect, 30% lotto system. I have good grades and was thinking that I was likely to be preselected at some of the bigtex firms I have on my list. Is this just plain dumb and should I be more conservative?

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Lawquacious
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:01 am

Thanks for all the replies- I think that definitely helps! I'm still not sure if my school is all lottery or not-- all I know is there are 35 bid slots that I need to rank, and it sounds like with some firms they can be entered at more than one rank (but some only allow one). So I am thinking that it is basically a lottery system (a lot of the firms do indicate GPA or percentile rank cutoffs, but I think anybody could bid on them-- it would just be pointless to if not meeting the cutoff).

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Lawquacious
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby Lawquacious » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:05 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Is it crazy to fill up your first 8 spots (out of 60) with lit boutiques who don't have too many interview slots (and a few are crazy selective)? At UT and we have a 70% preselect, 30% lotto system. I have good grades and was thinking that I was likely to be preselected at some of the bigtex firms I have on my list. Is this just plain dumb and should I be more conservative?



Sorry I'm not answering your question, but does that mean that the 60 spots are all lotto (and hence only 30% of total possible), or does the 60 include both the lotto and preselect? Also, how does the preselect work-- is that where you just upload a resume for the 'resume book' for employers to look through?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:14 am

Lawquacious wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Is it crazy to fill up your first 8 spots (out of 60) with lit boutiques who don't have too many interview slots (and a few are crazy selective)? At UT and we have a 70% preselect, 30% lotto system. I have good grades and was thinking that I was likely to be preselected at some of the bigtex firms I have on my list. Is this just plain dumb and should I be more conservative?



Sorry I'm not answering your question, but does that mean that the 60 spots are all lotto (and hence only 30% of total possible), or does the 60 include both the lotto and preselect? Also, how does the preselect work-- is that where you just upload a resume for the 'resume book' for employers to look through?


Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (and there's probably a good chance that i am), but my understanding is that I have essentially 60 "applications" I can send out to firms coming to OCI. The firms get all these applications (which for some just include a resume and transcript, for others include cover letters and writing samples) and sort out who they want to interview (preselect). But that only accounts for 70% of all interviews. 30% of the interview scheduling will be based on how students rank those 60 bids. So the 60 spots should include both preselect and lotto.

de5igual
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby de5igual » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:35 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
Lawquacious wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Is it crazy to fill up your first 8 spots (out of 60) with lit boutiques who don't have too many interview slots (and a few are crazy selective)? At UT and we have a 70% preselect, 30% lotto system. I have good grades and was thinking that I was likely to be preselected at some of the bigtex firms I have on my list. Is this just plain dumb and should I be more conservative?



Sorry I'm not answering your question, but does that mean that the 60 spots are all lotto (and hence only 30% of total possible), or does the 60 include both the lotto and preselect? Also, how does the preselect work-- is that where you just upload a resume for the 'resume book' for employers to look through?


Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (and there's probably a good chance that i am), but my understanding is that I have essentially 60 "applications" I can send out to firms coming to OCI. The firms get all these applications (which for some just include a resume and transcript, for others include cover letters and writing samples) and sort out who they want to interview (preselect). But that only accounts for 70% of all interviews. 30% of the interview scheduling will be based on how students rank those 60 bids. So the 60 spots should include both preselect and lotto.


i think you're right. if you feel like you have a great shot at getting pre-selected, it's not worth putting them high on your bid list. given the hybrid system, i'd assume that only the first 10 or so bids actually matter for the lottery, and i'd save these for the semi-reaches (where your grades are worthy of consideration but not a lock for preselect)

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drdolittle
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Re: How does rank of bids work in OCI bidding?

Postby drdolittle » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:39 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (and there's probably a good chance that i am), but my understanding is that I have essentially 60 "applications" I can send out to firms coming to OCI. The firms get all these applications (which for some just include a resume and transcript, for others include cover letters and writing samples) and sort out who they want to interview (preselect). But that only accounts for 70% of all interviews. 30% of the interview scheduling will be based on how students rank those 60 bids. So the 60 spots should include both preselect and lotto.

I think you're exactly right as I understand it too. In your case firms interviewing can freely select students to fill 70% of their interview slots. The school basically assigns to them the remaining 30% of interviews by some scheme based on student interest. This is why it makes sense to rank firms that are a bit out of reach highly, because the assignment scheme takes into account these ranks and thus one has a better chance of landing such interviews through ranking. So I feel it makes most sense to rank mainly according to interest, while strategically avoiding firms that are totally out of reach for whatever reason (i.e. where getting an interview through the ranking scheme wouldn't matter anyway).




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