Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

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boron1234
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:05 pm

Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

Postby boron1234 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:13 pm

Hello.

I was looking for some general advice about where I should bid. I'm straight through from undergrad (so no interesting job or other qualification).

My grades were alright- about a 3.38, a third of a grade from Stone (I think). I don't know if it's relevant, but I did have an upward trend (about 3.2 first semester, over 3.5 second semester).

My top choice is Cleary, but I feel like it's probably out of my range and isn't worth a bid. Same with Sullivan & Cromwell. I also like places like Kirkland & Ellis, White & Case, and Latham, though I'm not sure if those are reaches too.

Career services was typically unhelpful when I asked them. I had about 6 firms under the top 70 in Vault, but the career lady told me I had too many well known firms and suggested a few more that were between Vault 50 and Vault 70, so right around the median on my list...

Any advice for where my "wheelhouse" should be, where I shouldn't be applying, and whether I should be looking at some places outside the Vault 100 list? I'm a decent interviewers, I think, but there's nothing on my resume that screams spectacular.

I appreciate any advice...

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:10 am

boron1234 wrote:Hello.

I was looking for some general advice about where I should bid. I'm straight through from undergrad (so no interesting job or other qualification).

My grades were alright- about a 3.38, a third of a grade from Stone (I think). I don't know if it's relevant, but I did have an upward trend (about 3.2 first semester, over 3.5 second semester).

My top choice is Cleary, but I feel like it's probably out of my range and isn't worth a bid. Same with Sullivan & Cromwell. I also like places like Kirkland & Ellis, White & Case, and Latham, though I'm not sure if those are reaches too.

Career services was typically unhelpful when I asked them. I had about 6 firms under the top 70 in Vault, but the career lady told me I had too many well known firms and suggested a few more that were between Vault 50 and Vault 70, so right around the median on my list...

Any advice for where my "wheelhouse" should be, where I shouldn't be applying, and whether I should be looking at some places outside the Vault 100 list? I'm a decent interviewers, I think, but there's nothing on my resume that screams spectacular.

I appreciate any advice...


This is a tricky GPA to have without work experience. There may be some firms where HR staff actually calculate GPAs based on the transcripts they get and other firms that just use the scholar designations as rough cutoffs. You'd have a better shot at the former because they might have grade cutoffs at 3.3 or 3.25 or take the 10 highest GPA students in the interview pool. Of couse OCS could really help by providing information on grade cutoffs (we know someone, somewhere calculates GPAs for use by LR/scholars so there is really no good reason to hide this info).

Unfortunately there are really no "safety" firms for you, just targets and reaches. See the thread here viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157843 for a better discussion of what your bidlist should probably look like.

S+C is out of range- they are very grade sensitive although they tend to auto cb/offer people over a certain gpa. Don't even use a bid on them. W+C and Latham both took medianish students. I know W+C took a student with a B-. K+E is a good reach- they look for fit more than other firms in their range. Cleary is probably a long shot, but you can bid it at the bottom of your list. Try Weil Gotshal too, they were less selective last year than other V10s.

OCS advice about V50-70 or V70 or whatever is bad advice. Plenty of non-Stone students got offers at V40 or even V20 firms with large class sizes. You should bid on firms outside the V20 with large class sizes and that aren't too selective. If you really want to try for Cleary, bid them lower on the list, like 25-30.

boron1234
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

Postby boron1234 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:13 pm

Thanks for the advice-- are you saying that there's not much difference once you fall below Stone? I was told by some others that being in my range meant targeting V30-V70, and that anything above was a reach. But it seems like people in the 3.2-3.3 range are getting the same advice. I was kinda hoping that would give me at least a decent shot at some of the V10-V20 places (obviously not like Boies Schiller, but maybe Gibson Dunn or something?)

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:24 pm

I've heard this several times now on various threads that Weil is a (relatively) less grade-sensitive firm. But this sentiment doesn't concur at all with the binder from career services. According to those numbers, every offer Weil gave out last year went to a Stone Scholar with the exception of 1, which went to a transfer.

boron1234
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:05 pm

Re: Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

Postby boron1234 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:39 pm

I don't know much about Weil except that they're supposed to have a good corporate practice and a commitment to pro bono (both positives). Are they out of my range?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia Non-Stone Bid List Advice?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:I've heard this several times now on various threads that Weil is a (relatively) less grade-sensitive firm. But this sentiment doesn't concur at all with the binder from career services. According to those numbers, every offer Weil gave out last year went to a Stone Scholar with the exception of 1, which went to a transfer.


Yes, can someone clarify this regarding Weil, and also Ropes & Gray and Gibson Dunn?

Historically, I have heard that Weli and Ropes (NY) were less grade-selective whereas Gibson Dunn cares a lot about grades, but the data in career services makes them seem approximately equally grade selective.




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