Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:40 pm

T14. Despite below-median grades, managed to write on to LR.

Anyone have any sense of how much of a difference this makes? One look at my transcript will show any firm that I'm obviously not a grade-on - only one A grade for the entire year. Just trying to get a sense of how much I should adjust my bid list based on LR membership, or whether I should continue to structure a pretty conservative list and just hope for a modest bump.

Also, are there certain firms that have a reputation for seeking out LR but are not enormous grade snobs?

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8441
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:12 am

Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.

Sup Kid
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:49 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Sup Kid » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:12 am

It'll give you a bump, but only to the extent that you'll be considered above the other below-median students -- it won't bump you into the top-1/3 territory or anything like that. Bid conservatively, and hope that the LR is the little nudge that puts you over the top into offer-land.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:23 am

There are some firms that are whores for law review, though. WilmerHale DC hires law review write-ons down below median at GULC despite ordinarily taking from about the top quarter. That's atypical, but it would be useful to know the law review whore firms. (Take a look at a lot of associate bios and find which firms have disproportionate numbers of associates who were on LR to the overall selectiveness of the firm.)

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:01 am

What if you are a write on but your grades are better, say well above median. Does the LR boost increase the higher you are above the median mark?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:There are some firms that are whores for law review, though. WilmerHale DC hires law review write-ons down below median at GULC despite ordinarily taking from about the top quarter. That's atypical, but it would be useful to know the law review whore firms. (Take a look at a lot of associate bios and find which firms have disproportionate numbers of associates who were on LR to the overall selectiveness of the firm.)



At FRP '08 (so hiring for summer 09) WilmerHale DC only interviewed LR people from GW, passing up people that had higher grades but no LR (not sure how low they dipped specifically).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:24 am

I'm also curious if writing on to law review should change any bidding strategy for someone with top 10% grades from a T-14.

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:50 am

Law Review is definitely a bump, but you can't equate it to a higher GPA. I wouldn't let it change your bidding strategy. Bid on the firms that you ordinarily would with your grades, and be glad that you've got a great line on your resume that will make you stand out amongst your peers that are also interviewing at those firms.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm also curious if writing on to law review should change any bidding strategy for someone with top 10% grades from a T-14.

With those grades there are basically no firms that are off limits even without Law Review. It'll certainly improve your odds at a lot of the top firms (who will interview mostly people on Law Review), but your bidding strategy should be the same.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:01 am

thesealocust wrote:Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.


If this is true (and I'm not sure it is), law review is vastly overrated. In that case, you might as well just turn down the invitation (if you graded on) because you're going to do a massive load of work, for the same job prospects as if you'd turned it down.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:07 am

BruceWayne wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.


If this is true (and I'm not sure it is), law review is vastly overrated. In that case, you might as well just turn down the invitation (if you graded on) because you're going to do a massive load of work, for the same job prospects as if you'd turned it down.


A group of students at my school got anonymous responses from a lot of students who went through OCI and then they put all of the data into a spreadsheet. I believe that they saw almost not correlation between law review membership and OCI success. Cumulative 1L grades is where it's at.

User avatar
tww909
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:41 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby tww909 » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:10 am

i have the reverse problem. we only do write on at my school and (unsurprisingly) i didn't make it. is top 5% at a t35 without LR much worse off than i would be with it?

ToTransferOrNot
Posts: 1928
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:45 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:12 am

tww909 wrote:i have the reverse problem. we only do write on at my school and (unsurprisingly) i didn't make it. is top 5% at a t35 without LR much worse off than i would be with it?


It speaks poorly about your writing and editing ability, but you're going to be a lot better off than someone in the top 15% with law review, more than likely.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:33 am

What about the law review+ moot court combo?

User avatar
Cavalier
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:01 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.

If this is true (and I'm not sure it is), law review is vastly overrated. In that case, you might as well just turn down the invitation (if you graded on) because you're going to do a massive load of work, for the same job prospects as if you'd turned it down.

No one knows what effect declining Law Review would have on one's prospects at OGI because no one has ever done it recently. Many (if not most) screening interviewers are UVA alums and are familiar with the system; they would recognize that someone with a 3.75+ and no Law Review turned it down. And we can do nothing but speculate on the interviewer's reaction. Would he react negatively to someone declining something so highly regarded, or would he not care because he knows that the work is irrelevant to the practice of law? No one wants to take that risk.

Anonymous User wrote:What about the law review+ moot court combo?

Moot court doesn't matter.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.


If this is true (and I'm not sure it is), law review is vastly overrated. In that case, you might as well just turn down the invitation (if you graded on) because you're going to do a massive load of work, for the same job prospects as if you'd turned it down.


A group of students at my school got anonymous responses from a lot of students who went through OCI and then they put all of the data into a spreadsheet. I believe that they saw almost not correlation between law review membership and OCI success. Cumulative 1L grades is where it's at.



If this is Michigan you're referring to, I think they said that there was a negligible bump from non-LR journals. I'm not sure what impact they discovered from LR, though.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:45 pm

BruceWayne wrote:If this is true (and I'm not sure it is), law review is vastly overrated. In that case, you might as well just turn down the invitation (if you graded on) because you're going to do a massive load of work, for the same job prospects as if you'd turned it down.


This may also be shortsighted. LR may not have a noticeable bump for any given firm during OCI, but isn't it more likely to do so at the top litigation firms/boutiques (for whom top GPA people will be disproportionately competing for? Also, LR probably has a positive causal effect on Art. III clerkships. People who grade-on probably are thinking farther than just OCI to clerkships, and presumably law students who are risk averse to begin with, would rather do more work and not take the risk of lowering their chances, than not have the work but take the risk.

With respect to the Michigan poster, I think further evidence is that everyone on LR, even though ours is not grade-on, got something out of OCI/EIW/mass-mailing, which is certainly not true of the entire class. To what extent this is just sample bias, it's hard to tell.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:13 pm

thesealocust wrote:Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.


I am not saying you are wrong but this runs contrary to what my career services office told me. They say it has a substantial effect.

User avatar
IrwinM.Fletcher
Posts: 1195
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:55 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:35 pm

I would imagine the difference is much more stark as you dip lower in the school rankings. Someone who is top 20% at Penn and writes onto law review might be more competitive at a *few* firms than someone who is top 20% with a secondary journal. However, at the end of the day, it really won't matter because that person will still get a market paying gig unless they completely fudge up their interviews.

However, skip down to woostl and below, and I would imagine the difference is suddenly much more tangible. Firms want latin honors and/or law review credentials to justify taking people from non-T14 T1 schools. I would guess the guy who is on law review at Emory with top 25% grades might fair as well or better than someone with top 10-15% grades and no LR.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:However, skip down to woostl and below, and I would imagine the difference is suddenly much more tangible. Firms want latin honors and/or law review credentials to justify taking people from non-T14 T1 schools. I would guess the guy who is on law review at Emory with top 25% grades might fair as well or better than someone with top 10-15% grades and no LR.



Following this logic, what kind of boost would someone Top 20% at a T30-40 get with law review?

Do you think it is enough of a boost to be pretty safe on bidding on firms where the GPA cut off is 20% Or even more of a boost that will get me some interviews when the cut off is 10-15%

I realize this is all speculation but maybe someone has some personal experience. Thanks

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Very little bump. I feel like it may have helped people get offers slightly more frequently from firms their grades put them in play for (which is good) but didn't really help them become competitive at a wider range of firms.


I am not saying you are wrong but this runs contrary to what my career services office told me. They say it has a substantial effect.



I think it's not the magic bullet that some people think it is because it is not SUFFICIENT for a good outcome. BUT, where I think it really comes into play is that it may be NECESSARY to get certain outcomes (especially from lower ranking schools). I know of someone who is in an editing position on LR and had strong grades who couldn't get paid work for 2L summer (LR clearly not being sufficient, even with pretty strong grades), but I have also noticed that going through firm bios in the region I am in virtually all associates and partners were on LR or a Journal, even the ones who did go to T14-level schools (necessary).

bigtttymer
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby bigtttymer » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:31 am

Definitely a HUGE bump.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:12 am

bump, and also curious to know if anyone else has heard of specific firms that love to see LR (and will go a bit lower GPA-wise to get it)

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:20 am

I would think it helps but not enough to change your bidding strategy much considering you are below median.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would think it helps but not enough to change your bidding strategy much considering you are below median.


2nd anon here (the one who posted earlier today, not a year ago) i'm slightly above median--probably top 40-35%--at a t14.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273044
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Wrote on to law review - how much bump at OCI (if any)?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would think it helps but not enough to change your bidding strategy much considering you are below median.


2nd anon here (the one who posted earlier today, not a year ago) i'm slightly above median--probably top 40-35%--at a t14.


I think, like thesealocust said, it will help you get more offers/cbs from the firms at your GPA range, but not really boost you into a new range of firms.

For example, firms like S&C, DPW, Cleary, Debevoise, are all still a super reach. Being on LR won't help much with your grades for these firms.

But this is just speculation.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.