above-market compensation

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Anonymous User
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above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:21 pm

perfect grades at HYS, looking for above-market compensation (need to pay off those loans!) and a great litigation practice. location flexible. any thoughts?

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:23 pm

Enjoy WLRK and that mammoth bonus, bro.

goodolgil
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby goodolgil » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:24 pm

Williams & Connolly for one

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Helmholtz
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:perfect grades at HYS, looking for above-market compensation (need to pay off those loans!) and a great litigation practice. location flexible. any thoughts?


Boies or W&C if you're looking for really great litigation opportunities

seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:26 pm

W&C
Boies
Susman
Kirkland
Quinn (sometimes)

luthersloan
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby luthersloan » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Or you could always feeder clerk, SCOTUS clerk and collect that 250K starting bonus from any of those firms.

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Helmholtz
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:31 pm

Susman + TX COL = loans gone in record time

seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:38 pm

Probably worth explaining the differences in the firms' compensation schemes.

W&C: Doesn't offer a bonus, but has a much higher base salary. Presumably this is good because it's less subject to the whims of the market or how the firm is doing in a particular year. In some years, though, other firms will exceed the base with their own bonuses.

Susman: Offers above-market bonuses. But these aren't consistent and not guaranteed. I'm sure they'll be above market for the foreseeable future, but just how much above cannot intelligibly stated.

Boies: See Susman.

Kirkland: Offers above-market bonuses that are scaled to the quantity and quality of hours billed. The scale is usually keyed to the market, such that those billing around 1900-2000 hours will make market. The more you bill, the more you make. I heard a few who billed closed to 3000 and made 4xCravath this year.

Quinn: Offered, I think for the first year ever, above-market bonuses. These were keyed to the quantity of hours, and market was set at around 2,100 or possibly higher. At the upper-end, bonuses were around 1.5xCravath.

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BruceWayne
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:38 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:Enjoy WLRK and that mammoth bonus, bro.


This makes little to no sense for someone interested in litigation (like the OP). Besides, they've apparently stopped with the
routine bonuses equal to base salary. Not to mention the NYC COL and tax rate don't means it isn't the best way to pay off loans.

Susman Godfrey would make a lot of sense. They pay above market ($175,000 to first years), in a state with no income tax, and about as low a COL as it gets. You also get a 50,000 clerkship bonus on top of that 175K first year salary. So after the bonus and taxes that's a little over 150,000 take home. That's equal to 359,000 a year in NYC. The OP should go to Susman.

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seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:40 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:Enjoy WLRK and that mammoth bonus, bro.


This makes little to no sense for someone interested in litigation (like the OP). Besides, they've apparently stopped with the
routine bonuses equal to base salary. Not to mention the NYC COL and tax rate don't means it isn't the best way to pay off loans.

Susman Godfrey would make a lot of sense. They pay above market ($175,000 to first years), in a state with no income tax, and about as low a COL as it gets. You also get a 50,000 clerkship bonus on top of that 175K first year salary. So after the bonus and taxes that's a little over 150,000 take home. That's equal to 359,000 a year in NYC. The OP should go to Susman.

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Let the dude get some offers first before you start trolling for your secondary markets, you dig?

Anonymous User
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:40 pm

Let's add a twist: what if I want to be in NY or DC and I'd like to be at a firm that not only does good appellate work but also lets young associates contribute to it? For this purpose, maybe assume (though I know it's no given) that I'll clerk after law school. Thanks!!

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BruceWayne
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:42 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:Enjoy WLRK and that mammoth bonus, bro.


This makes little to no sense for someone interested in litigation (like the OP). Besides, they've apparently stopped with the
routine bonuses equal to base salary. Not to mention the NYC COL and tax rate don't means it isn't the best way to pay off loans.

Susman Godfrey would make a lot of sense. They pay above market ($175,000 to first years), in a state with no income tax, and about as low a COL as it gets. You also get a 50,000 clerkship bonus on top of that 175K first year salary. So after the bonus and taxes that's a little over 150,000 take home. That's equal to 359,000 a year in NYC. The OP should go to Susman.

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Let the dude get some offers first before you start trolling for your secondary markets, you dig?


That was random and incoherent. You do realize that you mentioned Susman in your post; are you high?

"Trolling for secondary markets", I'm embarassed to even know what that means. That you said that, and that I understand it, is a sad sign that we need to ge the hell off of this website...

seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:45 pm

That was random and incoherent. You do realize that you mentioned Susman in your post; are you high?


You were telling the guy to take Susman over Wachtell.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Let's add a twist: what if I want to be in NY or DC and I'd like to be at a firm that not only does good appellate work but also lets young associates contribute to it? For this purpose, maybe assume (though I know it's no given) that I'll clerk after law school. Thanks!!


Kellogg Huber
Zuckerman Spaeder
Kirkland

I think the first two pay above market, but I can't be sure. I don't know other firms with appellate practices that pay above-market. And I don't know any firm that let's associates touch appellate work pre-clerkship.

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BruceWayne
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby BruceWayne » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:50 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
That was random and incoherent. You do realize that you mentioned Susman in your post; are you high?


You were telling the guy to take Susman over Wachtell.


Damn man everything I just said went over your head. "Trolling" "secondary market" WTF? Even using that phrase is a clear sign that you spend too much time on here (especially in response to a post from someone who said making a lot of money and paying off loans was their primary goal; if that's what you want NYC doesn't make sense if you have other options--which he will with "perfect" grades from HYS)--I'm embarassed that I even understood what you were saying.

However, on a serious note, the guy says he wants litigation. Meaning Wachtell makes almost no sense. They really don't do much litigation (outside of some finanacial market stuff). For most people interested in lit it makes no sense to go there. Whereas Susman makes a lot of sense because they are a litigation boutique. That's their bread and butter.

Anonymous User
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:51 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Let's add a twist: what if I want to be in NY or DC and I'd like to be at a firm that not only does good appellate work but also lets young associates contribute to it? For this purpose, maybe assume (though I know it's no given) that I'll clerk after law school. Thanks!!


Kellogg Huber
Zuckerman Spaeder
Kirkland

I think the first two pay above market, but I can't be sure. I don't know other firms with appellate practices that pay above-market. And I don't know any firm that let's associates touch appellate work pre-clerkship.


Sorry--to confirm, I'm hoping to do appellate work post-clerkship, if a clerkship even happens. For the summer, I'd just like to be somewhere where it is possible to eventually do interesting appellate work.

Anonymous User
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:53 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Let's add a twist: what if I want to be in NY or DC and I'd like to be at a firm that not only does good appellate work but also lets young associates contribute to it? For this purpose, maybe assume (though I know it's no given) that I'll clerk after law school. Thanks!!


Kellogg Huber
Zuckerman Spaeder
Kirkland

I think the first two pay above market, but I can't be sure. I don't know other firms with appellate practices that pay above-market. And I don't know any firm that let's associates touch appellate work pre-clerkship.


Does Zuckerman take summer associates?

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Stringer Bell
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:54 pm

Was it Susman that just raised their billable hours requirement to 3,000?

seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
seriouslyinformative wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Let's add a twist: what if I want to be in NY or DC and I'd like to be at a firm that not only does good appellate work but also lets young associates contribute to it? For this purpose, maybe assume (though I know it's no given) that I'll clerk after law school. Thanks!!


Kellogg Huber
Zuckerman Spaeder
Kirkland

I think the first two pay above market, but I can't be sure. I don't know other firms with appellate practices that pay above-market. And I don't know any firm that let's associates touch appellate work pre-clerkship.


Sorry--to confirm, I'm hoping to do appellate work post-clerkship, if a clerkship even happens. For the summer, I'd just like to be somewhere where it is possible to eventually do interesting appellate work.


Yeah, those are fine choices. There are better appellate firms in DC than Kirkland, but I don't think they pay above-market compensation.

Anonymous User
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:04 pm

Does anyone have any opinions on the culture at Boies, Susman, and Quinn? WLRK definitely isn't for me.

Anonymous User
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have any opinions on the culture at Boies, Susman, and Quinn? WLRK definitely isn't for me.


Extremely intense workaholics and long hours. That's what you'll find at all of the above-market lit firms.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby seriouslyinformative » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:15 pm

Yes, though the quality of work seems to vary across them. My buddies at Boies and especially Quinn complain about never-ending doc review. Susman, not so much.

Anonymous User
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:19 pm

Bonus news for everyone:


Hughes Hubbard Makes ‘Special Bonuses,’ As It Would Have Been Stupid To Call Them Spring Bonuses

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Associate Bonus Watch: Cahill Gives Out ‘Mid-Year’ Bonuses

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King & Spalding: More DOMA Drama, Plus Salary and Bonus

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In Defense of Kaye Scholer

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DLA Piper’s People Pipe Up — and They’re Not Happy

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Schulte Will Pay Spring Bonuses, But You’ll Need To Jump Through Some Hoops First

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... ops-first/

Akin Gump Jumps on Spring Bonus Bandwagon

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Vinson & Elkins Gives Me A HeadacheTakes Spring Bonuses to Texas

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Quinn Emanuel Matches Spring Bonuses at 2000 Hours — Then Things Get Crazy Fun

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Mayer Brown Announces Supplemental Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... l-bonuses/

Orrick Springs Forward

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... s-forward/

Goodwin Procter’s ‘Special’ Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... l-bonuses/

Dechert Announces Spring Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... g-bonuses/


Bingham Brings Bonus Bounty

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... us-bounty/

Morrison & Foerster Matches Spring Bonuses

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Sidley Austin Matches on Spring Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/04/associat ... n-matches/

White & Case’s Mystery Spring Bonuses

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Gibson Dunn Finally Pays Up

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What Did Wachtell Do?

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Ho-Love Gives Bonus Love

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O’Melveny Announces Spring Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... bson-dunn/

Proskauer Rose Will Pay Spring Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... g-bonuses/

Kirkland & Ellis Announces Spring Bonuses!

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Ropes & Gray Announces Spring Bonuses!

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... g-bonuses/

Latham Matches the Cravath Spring Bonuses!

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... ath-scale/

Associate Salary Watch: Big (and Good) News from Winston & Strawn

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Dewey & LeBoeuf

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... y-leboeuf/

Seyfarth Shaw

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Associate Bonus Watch: Winston & Strawn

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McDermott Will & Emery’s Good News

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... good-news/

Clifford Chance Matches Cravath Spring Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/associat ... g-bonuses/

Clerkship Bonus Watch: BuckleySandler to $60,000!

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Associate Bonus (and Salary) Watch: Fish & Richardson

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Paul Hastings Consolidates Regular and Spring Bonus News Into One Money Orgy Announcement

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WilmerHale Jumps Into Merit-Based Spring Bonuses

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Cleary Raises to Cravath Spring Bonus Scale

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/associat ... nus-scale/

Fried Frank Grills Up Spring Bonuses

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Shearman & Sterling Matches Spring Bonuses

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Linklaters Links Spring Bonuses to the S&C Scale, Not Cravath’s

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Milbank Makes Bank, Matches Cravath Spring Bonuses

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/associat ... g-bonuses/

Willkie Matches the Cravath Spring Bonuses!

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Simpson Raises to Cravath Spring Bonus Scale

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/associat ... nus-scale/

O’Melveny & [deleted] Highlights Difficulties for West Coast Firms

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Spring Bonus Mania: Freshfields, Cadwalader

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Debevoise Goes Plimpin’ and Matches Cravath Spring Bonuses

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Weil Gotshal Plays the Match Game

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Skadden to Pay Spring Bonuses — on a New the Cravath Scale!

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Davis Polk Matches the Cravath Spring Bonuses!

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/associat ... g-bonuses/

Morrison & Foerster (above average)

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Bingham (average)

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*Cravath Enters the Bonus Wars — and Beats the S&C Scale!

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Wilson Sonsini (Below NYC salary schedule)

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*Morgan Lewis & Bockius (Double Cravath Scale)

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*Cleary Gottlieb Matches S&C Spring Bonuses!

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*Simpson Thacher Matches Sullivan & Cromwell Spring Bonuses!

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*Sullivan & Cromwell Pays Generous Spring Bonuses!

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/associat ... g-bonuses/

*Latham Bonuses Are Better Than Cravath’s

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Goodwin Procter (Cravat scale)

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Gibson Dunn (Cravath scale)

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*Vinson & Elkins (probably above Cravath)

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*Sherman & Sterling cravath level bonuses + or – some based upon merit

They essentially matched the Cravath scale, but with the caveat (also issued last year) that they are at least partly “merit-based” — i.e., adjusted up or down based on performance. The S&S bonuses are being paid out on January 14.
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*Patterson Belknap Also Bests Cravath

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*Irell & Manella That Are Killing Cravath Bonuses (double)

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/associat ... h-bonuses/

*Arnold & Porter Will Try Transparency Next Year, This Year Sticks With Cloak and Dagger Routine Bonuses are higher than cravath.

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/associat ... r-routine/


Some Hogan Lovells Associates Unhappy with Their Bonuses
(below Cravath scale)

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*Orrick’s Merit-Based Total Comp Will Use Cravath as a Baseline

“Our approach allows for high-performing associates to earn even more in total compensation than they could at competitor firms by providing for bonuses that range as high as 5% over total market compensation for Associates, 10% over market for Managing Associates and 15% over market for Senior Associates.”
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... -baseline/


Curtis Mallet Matches Cravath (With a Little Sweetener for Some)

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Paul Weiss Matches Sullivan & Cromwell (very close to Cravath)

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... -cromwell/

******Boies Schiller Sets the Bonus Bar

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The average awarded bonus for associates who have been with the firm for at least a year was over $75,000 for 2010. Several of the firm’s highest performing associates achieved bonuses of more than $200,000
 Some fairly junior associates received bonuses over $100K.
 Some junior to midlevel associates earned bonuses that were ten to fifteen times what they would have gotten under the Cravath scale.
Linklaters Matches Cravath

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... ax-issues/

Sullivan & Cromwell (Basically) Matches Cravath

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Simpson Thacher Matches Cravath

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... s-cravath/

Cleary Matches Cravath

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... s-cravath/

*Kirkland & Ellis is around double cravath
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Associate Bonus Watch: Mayer Brown (NY) Matches

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... matches-2/

*Associate Bonus Watch: Quinn Emanuel Pays 150 Percent of Cravath Scale and even more for high billers
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Debevoise Matches Cravath

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... s-cravath/
*Kaye Scholer Rewards High Billers Some associates double cravath scale

http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... h-billers/
*Sidley Austin Bonus pool 25% bigger this year and some associates reporting bonuses double cravath scale.
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Davis Polk matches Cravath
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... s-cravath/

*Weil Gotshal matches Cravath with some associates with distinguished rating getting more.
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Clifford Chance matches Cravath
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... s-cravath/
Cadwalader matches Cravath
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... adwalader/
*Susman Godfrey Shatters the Cravath Bonus Scale
Bonuses range from $45,000 to $100,000
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... nus-scale/
Fried Frank Announces Bonuses ‘Up to $40,000′
So very close to cravath scale.
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... rank-2010/
*Cahill Gordon DESTROYS the Cravath Bonus
Basically they doubled cravath scale.
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... ath-bonus/
Dewey & LeBoeuf Matches
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... matches-2/
Akin Gump matches
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... verything/
Proskauer Rose Matches
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... e-matches/
Willkie Farr Matches Cravath
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/associat ... s-cravath/
Weil Will Matches
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/associat ... g-forward/
Milbank Matches
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/associat ... matches-2/
Skadden Matches Cravath
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/associat ... s-cravath/
Cravath same scale as last year.
http://abovethelaw.com/2010/11/associat ... under-way/

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quakeroats
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby quakeroats » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:27 pm

luthersloan wrote:Or you could always feeder clerk, SCOTUS clerk and collect that 250K starting bonus from any of those firms.


Even a SCOTUS clerkship is going to cost you money in the short term. You forgo 160k+bonus for two years--plus your second year you'd probably get a raise--which is more than 250k+two years of a clerk's salary. At best you'd break even or do slightly better.
Last edited by quakeroats on Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: above-market compensation

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:51 pm

quakeroats wrote:
luthersloan wrote:Or you could always feeder clerk, SCOTUS clerk and collect that 250K starting bonus from any of those firms.


Even a SCOTUS clerkship is going to cost you money in the short term. You forgo 160k+bonus for two years--plus your second year you'd probably get a raise--which is more than 250k+two years of a clerks salary.


Actually no. Once you factor in taxes and such, most people make money or break even if they make SCOTUS; plus, it makes you more competitive for the Susmans/BBs of the world.




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