URMs & Firm Employment

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bwv812
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:38 pm

sparty99 wrote:I am a URM at a T30, below median.

I also had a 1L SA experience at one of the best firms in the market. Previous WE at a top consulting firm. Struck out at 2L OCI. Had two call backs from a diversity career fair. One call back at school's OCI. Landed a decent paying Fortune 500 gig for 2L summer. If there is a diversity boost, I'm waiting for that boost as the 3L search has yielded nothing. I don't think there is a boost, with the exception, if you go to diversity fairs and are Top 30%, I think you can be real competitive. Other then that, they really don't give a dam* about URM.

How many non-URMs at your school got 1L SA positions? How many non-URMs at your school with your 1L grades got any callbacks at all?

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby sparty99 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:36 pm

bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I am a URM at a T30, below median.

I also had a 1L SA experience at one of the best firms in the market. Previous WE at a top consulting firm. Struck out at 2L OCI. Had two call backs from a diversity career fair. One call back at school's OCI. Landed a decent paying Fortune 500 gig for 2L summer. If there is a diversity boost, I'm waiting for that boost as the 3L search has yielded nothing. I don't think there is a boost, with the exception, if you go to diversity fairs and are Top 30%, I think you can be real competitive. Other then that, they really don't give a dam* about URM.

How many non-URMs at your school got 1L SA positions? How many non-URMs at your school with your 1L grades got any callbacks at all?


I don''t talk to my classmates about job searching. I'm too busy trying to find my own gigs. However, there are some people who received 1L and they were non-URMs. My 1L is through a diversity initiative program. I had to write an essay and do other stuff. However, this program also included straight white males.

The reason why I received a callback 2L year, wasn't because of my skin. I attended a diversity career fair and two of the callbacks were from that. I made a connection with the interviewing people. I had one call-back through my school's OCI (out of 40 or so applications). Initially, they didn't even offer interview me (because of my grades). However, I took the initiative and received an interview. They liked that trait and I impressed them in the interview. However, ultimately, the job went to a straight white male, who, I believe did not have strong grades either. But he did have strong WE.

I've been all over the country looking for jobs. Hiring people LOVE my resume. However, when it comes to asking for the transcript, they all run away. It's not even like my grades are horrible. It is two classes that are bringing my gpa down. Otherwise, I'd just be at median.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:49 pm

I am white so have no personal experience, but am writing an article about a related topic and have researched data on this. There is a second URM boost here. Black students are disproportionately more represented at large firmsthan at the top 14 law schools. However, they have much lower attrition rates each year than white lawyers. This suggests that either they are less qualified for big law on average or that partners may be racist in who they are assigning what work. A study found black attorneys were much more likely to get doc review. Some hypothesize this may be that partners are assuming they're there because of a URM dispute, which means the real victims of affirmative action are the black law students who would have excelled without it.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:55 pm

sparty99 wrote:I don''t talk to my classmates about job searching. I'm too busy trying to find my own gigs. However, there are some people who received 1L and they were non-URMs. My 1L is through a diversity initiative program. I had to write an essay and do other stuff. However, this program also included straight white males.

The reason why I received a callback 2L year, wasn't because of my skin. I attended a diversity career fair and two of the callbacks were from that. I made a connection with the interviewing people. I had one call-back through my school's OCI (out of 40 or so applications). Initially, they didn't even offer interview me (because of my grades). However, I took the initiative and received an interview. They liked that trait and I impressed them in the interview. However, ultimately, the job went to a straight white male, who, I believe did not have strong grades either. But he did have strong WE.

I've been all over the country looking for jobs. Hiring people LOVE my resume. However, when it comes to asking for the transcript, they all run away. It's not even like my grades are horrible. It is two classes that are bringing my gpa down. Otherwise, I'd just be at median.

You say you are a good interviewer, but to be honest you come across as a real dick in a lot of the forums here (not necessarily here, though). There's a line between confidence and callous arrogance/superiority, and I think you sometimes come down on the wrong side of this line. I suppose it's possible that this is something that they pick on at callbacks?

Anyway, if you don't talk to classmates about job searching, it's difficult to understand how you know about the straight white male's grades or know that you aren't getting any kind of bump.

I agree there's lots about hiring that seems unfair. At my school kids with median grades but HYSP undergrad and/or investment banking backgrounds do much better than those who have good grades but not the background. Add in the randomness of hiring and it's difficult to make sense of things.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby sparty99 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:36 pm

bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I don''t talk to my classmates about job searching. I'm too busy trying to find my own gigs. However, there are some people who received 1L and they were non-URMs. My 1L is through a diversity initiative program. I had to write an essay and do other stuff. However, this program also included straight white males.

The reason why I received a callback 2L year, wasn't because of my skin. I attended a diversity career fair and two of the callbacks were from that. I made a connection with the interviewing people. I had one call-back through my school's OCI (out of 40 or so applications). Initially, they didn't even offer interview me (because of my grades). However, I took the initiative and received an interview. They liked that trait and I impressed them in the interview. However, ultimately, the job went to a straight white male, who, I believe did not have strong grades either. But he did have strong WE.

I've been all over the country looking for jobs. Hiring people LOVE my resume. However, when it comes to asking for the transcript, they all run away. It's not even like my grades are horrible. It is two classes that are bringing my gpa down. Otherwise, I'd just be at median.

You say you are a good interviewer, but to be honest you come across as a real dick in a lot of the forums here (not necessarily here, though). There's a line between confidence and callous arrogance/superiority, and I think you sometimes come down on the wrong side of this line. I suppose it's possible that this is something that they pick on at callbacks?

Anyway, if you don't talk to classmates about job searching, it's difficult to understand how you know about the straight white male's grades or know that you aren't getting any kind of bump.

I agree there's lots about hiring that seems unfair. At my school kids with median grades but HYSP undergrad and/or investment banking backgrounds do much better than those who have good grades but not the background. Add in the randomness of hiring and it's difficult to make sense of things.


I never said I was a good interviewer. And, no. I am far from arrogant/superior in interviews. If I don't get a call-back it is because I didn't connect with the interviewer, or they asked about my grades because it was career fair where you apply with a resume only, or what have you. I don't get a lot of firm interviews because of my grades. But when given an opportunity, I have landed the job. If I was arrogant, I wouldn't consistently be getting paid internships for the summer.

I know that a straight white male received the job that I wanted, because I overheard him say where he was working. Then I talked to other students who talked about this individual and his grades. In general, I don't go around talking to law students about their jobs. I don't go to a T14, so its not like half of the school receives firm jobs anyhow.

I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended. If a kid with median grades and went to HYSP and had investment banking background over a kid who went K to JD or had a non-business background, I would take them too. I-banking is real experience. School doesn't teach you shit. Sadly, I have real experience and I get almost no love from law firms (as well as the federal government honors program). I got so fed up last year, I applied to MBA internships. They didn't even ask about my grades. Nor did the Fortune 500 legal department that I eventually landed. I might as well go back into business then make $30k as a public defender.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:34 pm

I'm a non-AA Male URM 2L w/ extensive WE and high grades at a T1. I can say with 100% certainty that a non-AA Male URM's boost ends at getting a screener over a non-URM whose resumes are roughly equal. I believe it to be on-par with the boost that white females receive, which means there may be a boost for female non-AA URMs. From the screener forward, it's all on your interviewing skills, fit with the firm, and relative strength of resume. Given that I only had "high grades" and not "very high grades" from a T1, I worked my way into 18 or so screeners w/ firms that were out of my league. None of those were converted to a CB b/c of grade cutoffs.

Of my 6 CBs, none were out of my reach regardless of URM. I was overqualified for two of them (neither of which offered). 3 of the remaining 4 offered. Deservedly, an AA female with higher grades than me from the same school beat me out for the firm who didn't. Also, I still had to go above and beyond the "interview + grades above firm's median = offer" for my candidacy at the 3 firms that offered. My 1L in-house SA was a big client of Offering-Firm 1. I actually got a ding from them initially from Mass-Mail which they retracted. People from my 1L company called and pro-actively recommended me. Although I got the gig over a white girl from a T6, I'd say the "client boost" was the only real boost I got since they originally dinged my app and I was the only URM at the firm's CB. For Offering-Firm 2, I had gone to a CLE where a name partner presented. On top of that, there was a really good personal and professional connection between my WE and what they are doing. URM did not figure into their decision whatsoever, as they are too small of a firm to risk factoring that into a hiring decision. For Offering-Firm 3, I met the hiring partner outside of the OCI process and there was a lot of synergy between my WE and the firm's practice area. At my CB, one associate commented on how he/she had been using my writing sample to help him/her do his/her job.

tl;dr - From my experience, non-AA Male URMs have to hustle/go above and beyond to get jobs that they're already qualified to get. Basically, they're in the same boat as non-URMs ITE, except that they may get to participate in some "reach" screeners that will not materialize into anything.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:12 pm

sparty99 wrote:I never said I was a good interviewer. And, no. I am far from arrogant/superior in interviews. If I don't get a call-back it is because I didn't connect with the interviewer, or they asked about my grades because it was career fair where you apply with a resume only, or what have you. I don't get a lot of firm interviews because of my grades. But when given an opportunity, I have landed the job. If I was arrogant, I wouldn't consistently be getting paid internships for the summer.

But if you land the job when given an opportunity, why didn't you land a job? And I think it's quite possible for arrogant people to land paid summer internships.

sparty99 wrote:I know that a straight white male received the job that I wanted, because I overheard him say where he was working. Then I talked to other students who talked about this individual and his grades. In general, I don't go around talking to law students about their jobs. I don't go to a T14, so its not like half of the school receives firm jobs anyhow.

In my experience, people with bad grades don't go sharing them, and they especially don't share them with people who are likely to tell others about those grades. I would take hearsay about grades with a very large grain of salt.

sparty99 wrote:I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended. If a kid with median grades and went to HYSP and had investment banking background over a kid who went K to JD or had a non-business background, I would take them too. I-banking is real experience. School doesn't teach you shit. Sadly, I have real experience and I get almost no love from law firms (as well as the federal government honors program). I got so fed up last year, I applied to MBA internships. They didn't even ask about my grades. Nor did the Fortune 500 legal department that I eventually landed. I might as well go back into business then make $30k as a public defender.

This appears to be news to you, but law firms care very much about grades. There's a reason that law school gives grades and use a strict 1L curve. And while URMs may or may not receive a bump, I don't think anyone other than yourself is claiming that any such bump should make grades totally irrelevant. It's possible that the bump you receive simply isn't enough to overcome your grades.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a non-AA Male URM 2L w/ extensive WE and high grades at a T1. I can say with 100% certainty that a non-AA Male URM's boost ends at getting a screener over a non-URM whose resumes are roughly equal. I believe it to be on-par with the boost that white females receive, which means there may be a boost for female non-AA URMs. From the screener forward, it's all on your interviewing skills, fit with the firm, and relative strength of resume. Given that I only had "high grades" and not "very high grades" from a T1, I worked my way into 18 or so screeners w/ firms that were out of my league. None of those were converted to a CB b/c of grade cutoffs.

Of my 6 CBs, none were out of my reach regardless of URM. I was overqualified for two of them (neither of which offered). 3 of the remaining 4 offered. Deservedly, an AA female with higher grades than me from the same school beat me out for the firm who didn't. Also, I still had to go above and beyond the "interview + grades above firm's median = offer" for my candidacy at the 3 firms that offered.


I don't know what "high grades" as opposed to "very high grades" are. Top 10% and top 5%, respectively? From a T1 school, I'm not sure that 6CBs and 3 offers is typical for your average top 10%-er. Maybe it is, but it sounds pretty good. I'm also not sure that I would say that top-10% at a T1 makes you overqualified for any biglaw job, but maybe I'm just very conservative. Now I can see how you might get this impression from historical GPA data your school might publish, but almost all data points that you are relying on are from before this economy, and GPA cutoffs have risen considerably.

I'm sure Hispanic URMs don't get as large a boost as AAs do, but I find it difficult to draw any conclusions from your experience, even notwithstanding the fact it's a sample size of 1.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:44 pm

bwv812 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a non-AA Male URM 2L w/ extensive WE and high grades at a T1. I can say with 100% certainty that a non-AA Male URM's boost ends at getting a screener over a non-URM whose resumes are roughly equal. I believe it to be on-par with the boost that white females receive, which means there may be a boost for female non-AA URMs. From the screener forward, it's all on your interviewing skills, fit with the firm, and relative strength of resume. Given that I only had "high grades" and not "very high grades" from a T1, I worked my way into 18 or so screeners w/ firms that were out of my league. None of those were converted to a CB b/c of grade cutoffs.

Of my 6 CBs, none were out of my reach regardless of URM. I was overqualified for two of them (neither of which offered). 3 of the remaining 4 offered. Deservedly, an AA female with higher grades than me from the same school beat me out for the firm who didn't. Also, I still had to go above and beyond the "interview + grades above firm's median = offer" for my candidacy at the 3 firms that offered.


I don't know what "high grades" as opposed to "very high grades" are. Top 10% and top 5%, respectively? From a T1 school, I'm not sure that 6CBs and 3 offers is typical for your average top 10%-er. Maybe it is, but it sounds pretty good. I'm also not sure that I would say that top-10% at a T1 makes you overqualified for any biglaw job, but maybe I'm just very conservative. Now I can see how you might get this impression from historical GPA data your school might publish, but almost all data points that you are relying on are from before this economy, and GPA cutoffs have risen considerably.

I'm sure Hispanic URMs don't get as large a boost as AAs do, but I find it difficult to draw any conclusions from your experience, even notwithstanding the fact it's a sample size of 1.


What I meant was top 15% as opposed to top 10% or top 5%. I got shut out of biglaw CBs entirely. Largest firm that offered had ~70 attorneys. Other 2 offers were from less than 40 attorney shops. The 2 firms I said I was overqualified for are shitlaw shops of less than 30 attorneys that hire the top 25% at TTTT schools and below median at my school. I know this b/c I know people from their last two classes.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What I meant was top 15% as opposed to top 10% or top 5%. I got shut out of biglaw CBs entirely. Largest firm that offered had ~70 attorneys. Other 2 offers were from less than 40 attorney shops. The 2 firms I said I was overqualified for are shitlaw shops of less than 30 attorneys that hire the top 25% at TTTT schools and below median at my school. I know this b/c I know people from their last two classes.

OK, that makes more sense.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby sparty99 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:59 am

bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I never said I was a good interviewer. And, no. I am far from arrogant/superior in interviews. If I don't get a call-back it is because I didn't connect with the interviewer, or they asked about my grades because it was career fair where you apply with a resume only, or what have you. I don't get a lot of firm interviews because of my grades. But when given an opportunity, I have landed the job. If I was arrogant, I wouldn't consistently be getting paid internships for the summer.

But if you land the job when given an opportunity, why didn't you land a job? And I think it's quite possible for arrogant people to land paid summer internships.

sparty99 wrote:I know that a straight white male received the job that I wanted, because I overheard him say where he was working. Then I talked to other students who talked about this individual and his grades. In general, I don't go around talking to law students about their jobs. I don't go to a T14, so its not like half of the school receives firm jobs anyhow.

In my experience, people with bad grades don't go sharing them, and they especially don't share them with people who are likely to tell others about those grades. I would take hearsay about grades with a very large grain of salt.

sparty99 wrote:I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended. If a kid with median grades and went to HYSP and had investment banking background over a kid who went K to JD or had a non-business background, I would take them too. I-banking is real experience. School doesn't teach you shit. Sadly, I have real experience and I get almost no love from law firms (as well as the federal government honors program). I got so fed up last year, I applied to MBA internships. They didn't even ask about my grades. Nor did the Fortune 500 legal department that I eventually landed. I might as well go back into business then make $30k as a public defender.

This appears to be news to you, but law firms care very much about grades. There's a reason that law school gives grades and use a strict 1L curve. And while URMs may or may not receive a bump, I don't think anyone other than yourself is claiming that any such bump should make grades totally irrelevant. It's possible that the bump you receive simply isn't enough to overcome your grades.


You should stop distorting what I say.I´m well aware that grades are the ONLY THING that law firms care about. Not in the top 20%? Then bye. I never said a URM bump should make grades irrelevant. I have consistently said that there is no URM bump. If law firms cared about a bump, you would see more miniorties at law firms. Out of my 12 member summer class, I was the only minority. You can consider me arrogant. I don't care. I've had a paid summer internship every May. That's what matters. Continuing that streak this year with a paid full-time gig, is the only thing I care about.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby anon919 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:30 am

sparty99 wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I never said I was a good interviewer. And, no. I am far from arrogant/superior in interviews. If I don't get a call-back it is because I didn't connect with the interviewer, or they asked about my grades because it was career fair where you apply with a resume only, or what have you. I don't get a lot of firm interviews because of my grades. But when given an opportunity, I have landed the job. If I was arrogant, I wouldn't consistently be getting paid internships for the summer.

But if you land the job when given an opportunity, why didn't you land a job? And I think it's quite possible for arrogant people to land paid summer internships.

sparty99 wrote:I know that a straight white male received the job that I wanted, because I overheard him say where he was working. Then I talked to other students who talked about this individual and his grades. In general, I don't go around talking to law students about their jobs. I don't go to a T14, so its not like half of the school receives firm jobs anyhow.

In my experience, people with bad grades don't go sharing them, and they especially don't share them with people who are likely to tell others about those grades. I would take hearsay about grades with a very large grain of salt.

sparty99 wrote:I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended. If a kid with median grades and went to HYSP and had investment banking background over a kid who went K to JD or had a non-business background, I would take them too. I-banking is real experience. School doesn't teach you shit. Sadly, I have real experience and I get almost no love from law firms (as well as the federal government honors program). I got so fed up last year, I applied to MBA internships. They didn't even ask about my grades. Nor did the Fortune 500 legal department that I eventually landed. I might as well go back into business then make $30k as a public defender.

This appears to be news to you, but law firms care very much about grades. There's a reason that law school gives grades and use a strict 1L curve. And while URMs may or may not receive a bump, I don't think anyone other than yourself is claiming that any such bump should make grades totally irrelevant. It's possible that the bump you receive simply isn't enough to overcome your grades.


You should stop distorting what I say.I´m well aware that grades are the ONLY THING that law firms care about. Not in the top 20%? Then bye. I never said a URM bump should make grades irrelevant. I have consistently said that there is no URM bump. If law firms cared about a bump, you would see more miniorties at law firms. Out of my 12 member summer class, I was the only minority. You can consider me arrogant. I don't care. I've had a paid summer internship every May. That's what matters. Continuing that streak this year with a paid full-time gig, is the only thing I care about.


Mic drop.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:57 pm

sparty99 wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended. If a kid with median grades and went to HYSP and had investment banking background over a kid who went K to JD or had a non-business background, I would take them too. I-banking is real experience. School doesn't teach you shit. Sadly, I have real experience and I get almost no love from law firms (as well as the federal government honors program). I got so fed up last year, I applied to MBA internships. They didn't even ask about my grades. Nor did the Fortune 500 legal department that I eventually landed. I might as well go back into business then make $30k as a public defender.

This appears to be news to you, but law firms care very much about grades. There's a reason that law school gives grades and use a strict 1L curve. And while URMs may or may not receive a bump, I don't think anyone other than yourself is claiming that any such bump should make grades totally irrelevant. It's possible that the bump you receive simply isn't enough to overcome your grades.


You should stop distorting what I say.I´m well aware that grades are the ONLY THING that law firms care about. Not in the top 20%? Then bye. I never said a URM bump should make grades irrelevant. I have consistently said that there is no URM bump. If law firms cared about a bump, you would see more miniorties at law firms. Out of my 12 member summer class, I was the only minority. You can consider me arrogant. I don't care. I've had a paid summer internship every May. That's what matters. Continuing that streak this year with a paid full-time gig, is the only thing I care about.

How am I distorting what you are saying?

You've said that if you got a URM boost, you would have received callbacks at all the minority job fairs you attended—despite your sub-median grades at a T30. Does this mean that grades are the ONLY THING law firms care about (I haven't claimed that, as I've explicitly said they also care about UG prestige and some types of WE)? Does this mean that just because sub-median at T30 doesn't get callbacks that there is no URM bump at all? If you don't think that a URM bump should make your grades irrelevant, then why do you feel that you absolutely should have received callbacks from every minority job fair if a URM bump exists?

Also, was your summer class at a law firm? I thought you said it was a F500 company? How does your single data point about an in-house legal department say anything about how law firms hire? If we want to play with anecdotes, over 50% of the summer class at my actual law firm was minority. Most of the services that corporations go to law firms for are highly commoditized, and many corporations take law firm diversity into account when deciding who to hire.

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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby sparty99 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:03 pm

bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended. If a kid with median grades and went to HYSP and had investment banking background over a kid who went K to JD or had a non-business background, I would take them too. I-banking is real experience. School doesn't teach you shit. Sadly, I have real experience and I get almost no love from law firms (as well as the federal government honors program). I got so fed up last year, I applied to MBA internships. They didn't even ask about my grades. Nor did the Fortune 500 legal department that I eventually landed. I might as well go back into business then make $30k as a public defender.

This appears to be news to you, but law firms care very much about grades. There's a reason that law school gives grades and use a strict 1L curve. And while URMs may or may not receive a bump, I don't think anyone other than yourself is claiming that any such bump should make grades totally irrelevant. It's possible that the bump you receive simply isn't enough to overcome your grades.


You should stop distorting what I say.I´m well aware that grades are the ONLY THING that law firms care about. Not in the top 20%? Then bye. I never said a URM bump should make grades irrelevant. I have consistently said that there is no URM bump. If law firms cared about a bump, you would see more miniorties at law firms. Out of my 12 member summer class, I was the only minority. You can consider me arrogant. I don't care. I've had a paid summer internship every May. That's what matters. Continuing that streak this year with a paid full-time gig, is the only thing I care about.

How am I distorting what you are saying?

You've said that if you got a URM boost, you would have received callbacks at all the minority job fairs you attended—despite your sub-median grades at a T30. Does this mean that grades are the ONLY THING law firms care about (I haven't claimed that, as I've explicitly said they also care about UG prestige and some types of WE)? Does this mean that just because sub-median at T30 doesn't get callbacks that there is no URM bump at all? If you don't think that a URM bump should make your grades irrelevant, then why do you feel that you absolutely should have received callbacks from every minority job fair if a URM bump exists?

Also, was your summer class at a law firm? I thought you said it was a F500 company? How does your single data point about an in-house legal department say anything about how law firms hire? If we want to play with anecdotes, over 50% of the summer class at my actual law firm was minority. Most of the services that corporations go to law firms for are highly commoditized, and many corporations take law firm diversity into account when deciding who to hire.


I said there is no URM boost. I'm claiming that grades are the only thing that they care about. I have WE and it' not subpar. It's highly legit. I also had a 1L firm job. Still, no one cared. But I'm not trying to get into a tit-for-tat with you. I'm a minority and jobless.

Who ever asked if there is a miniority boost, shouldn't focus on that. This is f*cking America. Corporate America doesn't care about a black person succeeding. You want a boost? Finish in the Top 20%. There is your boost. There is a grade boost. You will get interviews. Whether you get a job will be based on how well you interview. If you finish in the Top 40% and below and you dont go to a top five, well, good luck to you, then you are almost no different than me.

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anon919
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby anon919 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:13 pm

sparty99 wrote:
I said there is no URM boost. I'm claiming that grades are the only thing that they care about. I have WE and it' not subpar. It's highly legit. I also had a 1L firm job. Still, no one cared. But I'm not trying to get into a tit-for-tat with you. I'm a minority and jobless.

Who ever asked if there is a miniority boost, shouldn't focus on that. This is f*cking America. Corporate America doesn't care about a black person succeeding. You want a boost? Finish in the Top 20%. There is your boost. There is a grade boost. You will get interviews. Whether you get a job will be based on how well you interview. If you finish in the Top 40% and below and you dont go to a top five, well, good luck to you, then you are almost no different than me.


I tend to agree that the boost, if any, kicks in if you're actually in the top 20% of the class. I don't think that in this type of market firms feel inclined to dip past the top 25% just because you're a URM.

NanaP
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby NanaP » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:12 pm

Just want to chime in real quick, I don't think there is a boost per say, but I do think companies look for diversity and give URM's a chance, but during the interview, that's all on you whether or not you can impress them....

dabbadon8
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby dabbadon8 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:20 pm

NanaP wrote:Just want to chime in real quick, I don't think there is a boost per say, but I do think companies look for diversity and give URM's a chance, but during the interview, that's all on you whether or not you can impress them....


Outted as a 0L by "per say"

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anon919
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby anon919 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 4:29 pm

dabbadon8 wrote:
NanaP wrote:Just want to chime in real quick, I don't think there is a boost per say, but I do think companies look for diversity and give URM's a chance, but during the interview, that's all on you whether or not you can impress them....


Outted as a 0L by "per say"


Lol

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bwv812
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:46 pm

anon919 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Who ever asked if there is a miniority boost, shouldn't focus on that. This is f*cking America. Corporate America doesn't care about a black person succeeding. You want a boost? Finish in the Top 20%. There is your boost. There is a grade boost. You will get interviews. Whether you get a job will be based on how well you interview. If you finish in the Top 40% and below and you dont go to a top five, well, good luck to you, then you are almost no different than me.


I tend to agree that the boost, if any, kicks in if you're actually in the top 20% of the class. I don't think that in this type of market firms feel inclined to dip past the top 25% just because you're a URM.

Well, the point at which any benefit kicks in obviously varies depending on the school you're coming from...

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anon919
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby anon919 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:43 pm

bwv812 wrote:
anon919 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:Who ever asked if there is a miniority boost, shouldn't focus on that. This is f*cking America. Corporate America doesn't care about a black person succeeding. You want a boost? Finish in the Top 20%. There is your boost. There is a grade boost. You will get interviews. Whether you get a job will be based on how well you interview. If you finish in the Top 40% and below and you dont go to a top five, well, good luck to you, then you are almost no different than me.


I tend to agree that the boost, if any, kicks in if you're actually in the top 20% of the class. I don't think that in this type of market firms feel inclined to dip past the top 25% just because you're a URM.

Well, the point at which any benefit kicks in obviously varies depending on the school you're coming from...


Ya. I think we're talking about T25 and below here. I would imagine there's more leeway if you're at a T14.

Anonymous User
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:52 pm

URM at T14. There is a significant boost.

Anonymous User
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:58 pm

URM at a non T-14. No boost whatsoever. Grades >>>>>>>>> everything else, including skin color.

mr.hands
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby mr.hands » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:21 pm

sparty99 wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote: I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended.


This is very very simple: Just because you didn't get a callback for some of the firms you interviewed with doesn't mean you didn't get a boost. Also, the fact that a straight white kid got a job that you wanted doesn't mean that a boost doesn't exist.

You have no idea how people treated you. Stop.

sparty99
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby sparty99 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:38 pm

mr.hands wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
bwv812 wrote:
sparty99 wrote: I know I don't receive a URM boost. If I did, I would have received call-backs at all the career fairs that I attended.


This is very very simple: Just because you didn't get a callback for some of the firms you interviewed with doesn't mean you didn't get a boost. Also, the fact that a straight white kid got a job that you wanted doesn't mean that a boost doesn't exist.

You have no idea how people treated you. Stop.


You stop. What are you? A URM? If not, you can stop pretending you know if a URM receives a boost.

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bwv812
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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Postby bwv812 » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:12 pm

sparty99 wrote:You stop. What are you? A URM? If not, you can stop pretending you know if a URM receives a boost.

Well, lack of personal experience doesn't stop you from telling other people what they are doing in their interviews, etc.

One doesn't have to be a member of a group in order to have an opinion of have knowledge of how that group is treated. And just because you are a member of a group doesn't mean you do have knowledge. Hiring is a black box for most of us who aren't on hiring committees. But I do now that almost every firm touts its diversity, so this is something they likely do take into account at some point along the way. It's also true that Asians/ORMs are counted as diverse for the purpose of law firm diversity, so I'm sure it's true that any advantage URMs receive is not as large as the boost they get in law school admissions, but I suspect it's still there.




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