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Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:02 pm
by Grizz
f0bolous wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:ALSO, how are people identifying themselves as URM candidates during OCI? Are you putting it in your cover letters or what? There is no real chance to do it otherwise. I wove mine into a cover letter just because I couldn't think of another way to get it out there. Anyone?


Any URM or other minority with enough foresight would have joined one of the diversity organizations

I did not have this foresight. Gonna have to go on looks alone.

Also not URM, just M, so we will see what happens.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:12 pm
by Anonymous User
f0bolous wrote:Any URM or other minority with enough foresight would have joined one of the diversity organizations


I am president of xxLSA at my school, but I didn't think the one line on my resume was enough. It is basically just a leadership position and doesn't mean you are a minority the firm seeks - or a minority at all. A college friend of mine was a white president of BLSA at his law school so assuming he was black just because of that would have made the recruiter look really stupid.

In any case, F0bolous, I take your response to mean that you had enough foresight to join a group as a proxy for the check box to which the law school application process conveniently availed us, but not enough foresight to see why you might not want to leave your identity to a single line about "xxLSA membership" on your resume.

. . . Moving on, a brief mention in a cover letter seems appropriate if it's done in good taste - e.g. "As a ___ URM and one of only ____ URMs at my LS, I appreciate your firm's diversity initiative." It's consistent with the conventional advise to point out something specific about a firm, showing you did your research, and identifying yourself as sought-after by the firm. I'd support a sentence like that.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:18 pm
by Kohinoor
Anonymous User wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Any URM or other minority with enough foresight would have joined one of the diversity organizations


I am president of xxLSA at my school, but I didn't think the one line on my resume was enough. It is basically just a leadership position and doesn't mean you are a minority the firm seeks - or a minority at all. A college friend of mine was a white president of BLSA at his law school so assuming he was black just because of that would have made the recruiter look really stupid.
Assuming for a moment that they screen by skin color, it costs a firm nothing to grant a screener slot and then deny a callback.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:23 pm
by Grizz
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Any URM or other minority with enough foresight would have joined one of the diversity organizations


I am president of xxLSA at my school, but I didn't think the one line on my resume was enough. It is basically just a leadership position and doesn't mean you are a minority the firm seeks - or a minority at all. A college friend of mine was a white president of BLSA at his law school so assuming he was black just because of that would have made the recruiter look really stupid.
Assuming for a moment that they screen by skin color, it costs a firm nothing to grant a screener slot and then deny a callback.

What about teh opportunity cost?!?!??

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:34 pm
by Anonymous User
Kohinoor wrote:Assuming for a moment that they screen by skin color, it costs a firm nothing to grant a screener slot and then deny a callback.

Truth of this aside, I see it derailing the thread. . . . More to the point, what are people doing to identify?

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:41 pm
by de5igual
Anonymous User wrote:
f0bolous wrote:Any URM or other minority with enough foresight would have joined one of the diversity organizations


I am president of xxLSA at my school, but I didn't think the one line on my resume was enough. It is basically just a leadership position and doesn't mean you are a minority the firm seeks - or a minority at all. A college friend of mine was a white president of BLSA at his law school so assuming he was black just because of that would have made the recruiter look really stupid.

In any case, F0bolous, I take your response to mean that you had enough foresight to join a group as a proxy for the check box to which the law school application process conveniently availed us, but not enough foresight to see why you might not want to leave your identity to a single line about "xxLSA membership" on your resume.

. . . Moving on, a brief mention in a cover letter seems appropriate if it's done in good taste - e.g. "As a ___ URM and one of only ____ URMs at my LS, I appreciate your firm's diversity initiative." It's consistent with the conventional advise to point out something specific about a firm, showing you did your research, and identifying yourself as sought-after by the firm. I'd support a sentence like that.


indicating membership with a diverse organization usually is a sufficient signal to recruiters. they could always deny the person a callback if he/she wasn't what they were expecting.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:44 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:ALSO, how are people identifying themselves as URM candidates during OCI? Are you putting it in your cover letters or what? There is no real chance to do it otherwise. I wove mine into a cover letter just because I couldn't think of another way to get it out there. Anyone?


In my law school section, where I list mock trial, adr, etc, I listed "National LGBT Bar Association."

I put it first actually, just to make sure they couldn't miss it.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:45 pm
by Anonymous User
I am a URM, although it is on my resume, i am not going to put that on my cover letter. I think that is obnoxious.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:46 pm
by Doritos
I think a great way to identify is attend minority job fairs.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:47 pm
by Aston2412
Anonymous User wrote:I am a URM, although it is on my resume, i am not going to put that on my cover letter. I think that is obnoxious.


It depends on how you do it I think. When I apply to Nixon Peabody, Foley(s), etc. you better believe I'm going to put in my cover letter how their demonstrated commitment to diversity and the LGBT community makes them a natural place to pursue my legal career, etc.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:48 pm
by D-hops
Aston2412 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a URM, although it is on my resume, i am not going to put that on my cover letter. I think that is obnoxious.


It depends on how you do it I think. When I apply to Nixon Peabody, Foley(s), etc. you better believe I'm going to put in my cover letter how their demonstrated commitment to diversity and the LGBT community makes them a natural place to pursue my legal career, etc.


I think this is the appropriate (tactful) way to do it in a cover letter. Otherwise just put it in a resume and/or attend diversity job fairs.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:59 pm
by Anonymous User
Doritos wrote:I think a great way to identify is attend minority job fairs.


LOL

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:00 pm
by Mattalones
Aston2412 wrote:It depends on how you do it I think. When I apply to Nixon Peabody, Foley(s), etc. you better believe I'm going to put in my cover letter how their demonstrated commitment to diversity and the LGBT community makes them a natural place to pursue my legal career, etc.

+1

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:17 pm
by Anonymous User
How come URM stuff is always so secret? Cann-a-geta spreadsheet?!

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:36 pm
by Kohinoor
Anonymous User wrote:How come URM stuff is always so secret? Cann-a-geta spreadsheet?!

Because two data-points are typically enough to out a URM.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:48 am
by Mattalones
Kohinoor wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How come URM stuff is always so secret? Cann-a-geta spreadsheet?!

Because two data-points are typically enough to out a URM.

What? It might be because it's the morning, or the fact that I have to use the restroom, but I don't understand what this means.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:59 am
by Marley
I think he means URMs are secretive about their job-related things because it only takes two things (identifying school and what type of URM, for example) to figure out who they are. For example, if I (as a URM) posted my school and what market I'm looking at, there are so few of us that it would be easy to figure out who I am.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Is there any incentive for firms to just interview but not hire people they'd consider "diverse?" I've heard people say this, but I'm not sure it makes any sense. It costs time and money to do and doesn't improve firms diversity if they aren't hiring anyone. The only thing I can think of is that it may increase their applicant pool. Though, if firms are just looking for minorities with the same qualifications as all their other associates, why make such an effort to recruit minorities through diversity recruiting in the first place?

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:59 pm
by de5igual
anon wrote:Is there any incentive for firms to just interview but not hire people they'd consider "diverse?" I've heard people say this, but I'm not sure it makes any sense. It costs time and money to do and doesn't improve firms diversity if they aren't hiring anyone. The only thing I can think of is that it may increase their applicant pool. Though, if firms are just looking for minorities with the same qualifications as all their other associates, why make such an effort to recruit minorities through diversity recruiting in the first place?


they get to put in their profile that they participate in diversity events. it creates goodwill with employees, clients, schools and future applicants. but generally speaking, there is a bump for being diverse. it's just not as pronounced as it was during the law school app process.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:13 pm
by Dr.Zer0
Tag/necro

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:24 pm
by Anonymous User
From my admittedly anecdotal experience during OCI, URMs can get screeners with GPAs below a firm's cutoff. I think once you are selected for a screener then it really depends upon your individual ability to interview. Basically, I think firms are willing to go deeper into classes to find URMs who they think are a genuine fit.

My Approximate Stats
School: T1 - OCI is a mix of pre-select & lottery
GPA: Slightly Below Top 1/3
Screeners: 8
CB: 4 (Cancelled 1)
Offers: 2

Hopefully other URMs are willing to share their experiences.

Note for cover letters: Mentioning that you are the president of URM club or some other leadership URM activity is fine. On the other hand, sentences like "as a member of URM club, I love the firm's generic commitment to diversity section on firm website" are probably not going to help your candidacy. I personally had one line on my resume that referenced my membership in my school's URM association.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:42 am
by anon919
Edit: Moot.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:45 pm
by Anonymous User
I am a URM at a T20, top 1/3.

Relatively prestigious secondary journal. According to my career counselor, I am a great interviewer.

I have 1L SA experience at one of the best firms in the market.

I completely struck out at OCI, and am now desperately seeking employment.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:27 am
by BruceWayne
Anonymous User wrote:From my admittedly anecdotal experience during OCI, URMs can get screeners with GPAs below a firm's cutoff. I think once you are selected for a screener then it really depends upon your individual ability to interview. Basically, I think firms are willing to go deeper into classes to find URMs who they think are a genuine fit.

My Approximate Stats
School: T1 - OCI is a mix of pre-select & lottery
GPA: Slightly Below Top 1/3
Screeners: 8
CB: 4 (Cancelled 1)
Offers: 2

Hopefully other URMs are willing to share their experiences.

Note for cover letters: Mentioning that you are the president of URM club or some other leadership URM activity is fine. On the other hand, sentences like "as a member of URM club, I love the firm's generic commitment to diversity section on firm website" are probably not going to help your candidacy. I personally had one line on my resume that referenced my membership in my school's URM association.


A geneal rule of thumb is that firms will go below their usual cutoffs for a URM if the URM is ABOVE the median. So for example, while Covington may normally only hire top 10% they will go to top 1/3 for a URM. However, while Crowell Moring may have a normal cutoff of top 1/3 they will NOT go to below median for a URM. Note I just randomly picked firms and rank cutoffs to give an example.

Re: URMs & Firm Employment

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:45 am
by sparty99
Anonymous User wrote:I am a URM at a T20, top 1/3.

Relatively prestigious secondary journal. According to my career counselor, I am a great interviewer.

I have 1L SA experience at one of the best firms in the market.

I completely struck out at OCI, and am now desperately seeking employment.


I am a URM at a T30, below median.

I also had a 1L SA experience at one of the best firms in the market. Previous WE at a top consulting firm. Struck out at 2L OCI. Had two call backs from a diversity career fair. One call back at school's OCI. Landed a decent paying Fortune 500 gig for 2L summer. If there is a diversity boost, I'm waiting for that boost as the 3L search has yielded nothing. I don't think there is a boost, with the exception, if you go to diversity fairs and are Top 30%, I think you can be real competitive. Other then that, they really don't give a dam* about URM.