Least grade selective v15 firms?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:22 am

RVP11 wrote:At least at my school...

Super Grade Selective:

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington

Very Grade Selective:

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter

Not That Grade Selective:

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo
WilmerHale
Ropes & Gray

Even Less Grade Selective:

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling


This is mostly accurate, though from last year (admittedly a small sample) I might move Covington (NY) down to the second tier.

User avatar
BruceWayne
Posts: 2032
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:26 am

RVP11 wrote:Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling


Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:42 am

BruceWayne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling


Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?


Unless otherwise noted, I was thinking either NY or the firm's main office. For Sidley, I was thinking NY.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:14 pm

RVP11 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling


Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?


Unless otherwise noted, I was thinking either NY or the firm's main office. For Sidley, I was thinking NY.


That's a very helpful list. Do you know where these NY offices would place on your scale?

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Fried Frank
Milbank
Cadwalader
Allen and Overy
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Wilkie Farr
Hogan
Fulbright
Morgan Lewis
McDermott

User avatar
jawsthegreat
Posts: 792
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby jawsthegreat » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
RVP11 wrote:Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin
Jones Day
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling


Are you sure about this? I thought that Sidley (especially DC) was pretty selective?


Unless otherwise noted, I was thinking either NY or the firm's main office. For Sidley, I was thinking NY.


That's a very helpful list. Do you know where these NY offices would place on your scale?

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Fried Frank
Milbank
Cadwalader
Allen and Overy
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Wilkie Farr
Hogan
Fulbright
Morgan Lewis
McDermott


I'd like to see that too.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:18 pm

RVP- thanks for the list. Do you mind saying what school?

User avatar
quakeroats
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:34 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:RVP- thanks for the list. Do you mind saying what school?


UVA.

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:58 am

I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:14 am

RVP11 wrote:I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott



There's parts of this I'm not sure I agree with.

Shearman should be higher. Last year, Cahill's average callback GPA > Weil, Jones Day, White & Case. Skadden/Latham's average callback GPAs were above a 3.6

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott



There's parts of this I'm not sure I agree with.

Shearman should be higher. Last year, Cahill's average callback GPA > Weil, Jones Day, White & Case. Skadden/Latham's average callback GPAs were above a 3.6


A) I have data that extends back more than one year.

B) A 3.6 average callback might mean they called back everyone over a 3.7, but still gave a callback to someone with a 3.3. Note my attempt is to list what I think are probably the absolute CUTOFFS, not the average callbacks. Averages are skewed by the one dude with a 3.85 who is a great interviewer and gets 20+ callbacks.

C) Some firms that were overly selective at OGI came crawling back and actually re-interviewed and/or called back people they had previously "rejected." (Skadden and Cahill are two I can name.) So it's unclear whether those numbers are included.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:24 am

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott



There's parts of this I'm not sure I agree with.

Shearman should be higher. Last year, Cahill's average callback GPA > Weil, Jones Day, White & Case. Skadden/Latham's average callback GPAs were above a 3.6


A) I have data that extends back more than one year.

B) A 3.6 average callback might mean they called back everyone over a 3.7, but still gave a callback to someone with a 3.3. Note my attempt is to list what I think are probably the absolute CUTOFFS, not the average callbacks. Averages are skewed by the one dude with a 3.85 who is a great interviewer and gets 20+ callbacks.

C) Some firms that were overly selective at OGI - two of the firms you named, and a few others - came crawling back and actually re-interviewed and/or called back people they had previously "rejected."


I have a 3.49. You're saying I'm out of the running at all those firms you listed at 3.5+?

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have a 3.49. You're saying I'm out of the running at all those firms you listed at 3.5+?


It's amazing that you got a 3.49 given you have a learning disability that doesn't allow you to read my post.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:32 am

RVP11 wrote:
A) I have data that extends back more than one year.

B) A 3.6 average callback might mean they called back everyone over a 3.7, but still gave a callback to someone with a 3.3. Note my attempt is to list what I think are probably the absolute CUTOFFS, not the average callbacks. Averages are skewed by the one dude with a 3.85 who is a great interviewer and gets 20+ callbacks.

C) Some firms that were overly selective at OGI came crawling back and actually re-interviewed and/or called back people they had previously "rejected." (Skadden and Cahill are two I can name.) So it's unclear whether those numbers are included.


Ah, missed that you were talking about cutoffs. Carry on, good man.

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8446
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:17 pm

I agree with RVP's analysis, but want to add the caveat that the lower your GPA is, the longer a shot any given firm often is. There are plenty of firms that, for example, RVP lists as "3.5+" but made most of their offers to people with a 3.7+. RVP's list is thus great to find out where you should apply and where you have any chance at all, but less great at figuring out where your odds are actually strong.

That's not a problem of anything except expectations - people should be bidding wherever they have a shot, even if others have a better shot.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:55 am

Where would the magic circle firms fit into this analysis?

User avatar
danidancer
Posts: 841
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:46 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby danidancer » Sat Jul 09, 2011 4:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where would the magic circle firms fit into this analysis?


Also interested in this. I know the NYC offices are generally less selective than the London offices, but would love more specifics. :D

seriouslyinformative
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:48 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby seriouslyinformative » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:28 pm

Of the Magic Circle firms in NYC, the only one worth the bid and consideration if you can afford to be picky is Freshfields.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:30 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:Of the Magic Circle firms in NYC, the only one worth the bid and consideration if you can afford to be picky is Freshfields.


What does that even mean?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:46 pm

RVP11 wrote:I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling


So I guess these GPA "soft cutoffs" are for UVA? How much do they shift at all, if at all, for CCN? Sorry if that's a dumb question, I'm new to this.

User avatar
Bronte
Posts: 2128
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Bronte » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:53 pm

Do a lot of schools not give out a GPA sheet?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:18 am

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have a 3.49. You're saying I'm out of the running at all those firms you listed at 3.5+?


It's amazing that you got a 3.49 given you have a learning disability that doesn't allow you to read my post.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273314
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:15 am

RVP11 wrote:I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott


how competitive is Akin Gump DC, given that DC is deemed to be significantly more competitive than NYC. Thanks.

User avatar
swc65
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:27 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby swc65 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:22 am

RVP11 wrote:I've added firms, and named what I believe to be the approximate cutoff. If you're above the GPA I list I think you're definitely in range for the firm, but if you're below the GPA I list I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean you have no chance.

Super Grade Selective (3.7+):

Cravath
Sullivan & Cromwell
Williams & Connolly
Gibson Dunn (DC)
Covington (DC)

Very Grade Selective (3.6+):

Paul Weiss
Gibson Dunn (LA)
Kirkland
Debevoise
Boies Schiller
Arnold & Porter (DC)
Hogan Lovells (DC)

Not That Grade Selective (3.5+):

Davis Polk
Simpson Thacher
Cleary
Gibson Dunn (NY)
Quinn Emanuel
O'Melveny
MoFo (SF/NY)
WilmerHale (DC)
Jones Day (DC)
Ropes & Gray
Fried Frank
Wilkie Farr
Allen and Overy


Even Less Grade Selective (3.4+):

Skadden
Weil
Latham
Sidley Austin (NY)
Jones Day (NY)
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling

Grades?! (3.3+):

Paul Hastings
Mayer Brown
Milbank
Cadwalader
Cahill Gordon
Akin Gump
Morgan Lewis
Fulbright
McDermott



I am just curious what the percentages are for these GPAs

User avatar
5ky
Posts: 6380
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:10 pm

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby 5ky » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:25 am

At UVa (where that poster goes):

3.3+ = median and above
3.4 + = top third-ish and above
3.5 + = top quarter-ish and above
3.6 + = top 15%ish and above
3.7+ = LR grade-on-ish and above, around top 6-7%

User avatar
swc65
Posts: 1003
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:27 am

Re: Least grade selective v15 firms?

Postby swc65 » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:26 am

5ky wrote:At UVa (where that poster goes):

3.3+ = median and above
3.4 + = top third-ish and above
3.5 + = top quarter-ish and above
3.6 + = top 15%ish and above
3.7+ = LR grade-on-ish and above, around top 6-7%



Thanks.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.