Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

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Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:14 pm

Posting in here, because this q is very humiliating, and can influence employment later.

Pretty much, my dad stopped working about a decade ago and didn't tell anyone so he took out 1.5 million in mortgages against the house to pay for vacations, part of college (which was very nice of him), construction on the house, steak every night and for a secretary while pretending he was making tons, and even discouraging my mom from looking for work to make "petty pay."

Two years ago our home was foreclosed on. We've pushed it off, but they do need to move eventually. They had been getting some food vouchers from the community, and my dad makes a little money here and there in addition to the $500 a month or so I send my family.

My dad holds two masters, but tries to sell mortgages and has refused to look for another job. He told me if I fixed his resume, and found him jobs he would consider them. I found a few last year, but he skipped the interviews. I also got him a part time job at a taxi stand I used to work at, but he refused also.

My mom has said she'll go back to work, and is really nice but she is kind of crazy. She's not unstable - she just is a really weird artist. For example, on the objective portion of her resume she wrote things about her spiritual beliefs and philosophy on god, and insists employers want to see that.

Basically, my mom feels very humiliated in her community and wants to move as she does not want to be known as poor (even though she's been living rent free on the foreclosed on property, and probably could for sometime), but hates it there and feels everyone looks down on her.

So they found a home for 2800 a month in a new suburb. The only issue is that after selling her diamond ring and a car, they only have 10k total, and have sub-400 credit. So they asked me to be a guarantor on a two year lease - the sole guarantor. I only made about 40k this year, and am starting law school in the fall but the landlord said it was okay. My parents told me they promise they'll make all the payments and would not leave me in the water, and while my parents can be deadbeats and have been sued multiple times I have no doubt they do not want to intentionally screw me over. If they did, my mom would feel very guilty but probably say it wasn't her choice, and my dad would tell me to f myself.

I have always loved my parents, but I am very upset with them for what I perceive to be a lack of effort. I am not a selfish person, but I'm very insensitive and would likely just completely cut them off if I did not still have 2 sisters under 18. For what it's worth, they are both considered top percentile students, the 14 year old makes $300 a week part time (of which my parents sometimes take it justifying they are the ones paying for her food and medical expenses), and the 6 year old has been said to have a lot of academic progress (she takes many 3rd grade classes).

So the issue is because I won't have the $ in my account to pay both years on their lease in the event they don't pay (which I don't see objectively how they will be able to with no jobs), I can be screwed with C+F on the bar, and my credit will be screwed meaning I can't get loan money.

I told one friend who told me it sucks about my sisters, but I need to cut bait - that the $500 is really nice, but I shouldn't have to support my parents living a suburban lifestyle, that the role of genetics is to have each generation responsible for the next.

I don't talk about it to other people, because I'm very ashamed of it as I am not a deadbeat, but do know that in public perception apples don't fall from from the tree. I don't want to tell my girlfriend about it, because while she knows I make more than my dad, I don't want her to know I helped support my family as even though she's not superficial that could show someone who can't commit. How can I support a new family when I'm responsible for a previous one, and not rich?

I don't want to have to stress about this stuff all through law school, and a large part of me knows that I'll get a call two months in from the landlord asking about the rent money. I do feel bad for my sisters, though. In a perfect world, I wish my parents would put them up for adoption to a loving, stable and well established family.

Basically my q is whether I have some moral/ethical obligation to be the guarantor if it's probably 70% likely they don't make all the payments.

bdubs
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby bdubs » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:17 pm

Don't do it.

flexityflex86
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby flexityflex86 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:19 pm

bdubs wrote:Don't do it.

you know it's family right?

viking138
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby viking138 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:23 pm

From everything you've said, it doesn't seem like your parents even need to move, they just want to. That shouldn't be on you. If you were asking if they can live with you while they get on your feet, that would be one thing. Guaranteeing them is not the same thing and you should say no, for their sake (since they'll be evicted anyway) and for your future.

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Icculus
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Icculus » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:23 pm

As someone who has done something similar, I think I can shed some light on this. My mother had some financial problems because of some tax issues and could not get a bank account, and has a lien against her. I cosigned on an apt. for her after a foreclosure and two evictions, but she also has a retirement income from teaching and social security, plenty of $ to pay the rent. I simply told her the only way I would do it was if she got me a power of attorney to run her finances as well so I can make sure the rent is paid each month. I would not cosign if you are sure they will not pay the rent, it will only hurt you, tryst me. I would never have cosigned had she not had the retirement income. If your parents get an income then I would do it, but no income means great risk to you for little reward. Remember, if you cosign and they stop paying then you are responsible as if it's your lease.

splitmuch
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby splitmuch » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:38 pm

No fucking way. Its one thing to help people out, but you should expect a commitment by them to help themselves. If your dad won't take on a real job, don't take on his debt.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:39 pm

mjcaccio wrote:As someone who has done something similar, I think I can shed some light on this. My mother had some financial problems because of some tax issues and could not get a bank account, and has a lien against her. I cosigned on an apt. for her after a foreclosure and two evictions, but she also has a retirement income from teaching and social security, plenty of $ to pay the rent. I simply told her the only way I would do it was if she got me a power of attorney to run her finances as well so I can make sure the rent is paid each month. I would not cosign if you are sure they will not pay the rent, it will only hurt you, tryst me. I would never have cosigned had she not had the retirement income. If your parents get an income then I would do it, but no income means great risk to you for little reward. Remember, if you cosign and they stop paying then you are responsible as if it's your lease.

OP here.

I asked to control finances, and my mom was okay with that, but my dad was not (though I think it's more of a power thing than intent to screw me). For what it's worth, I have never been somebody big on machismo garbage. I'm pretty confident in my manhood, and as my dad has always had a peter pan complex, I can understand why he wouldn't want his son controlling his finances.

Sometimes my dad will make money, but over the full year, it's around 20k. However, he'll say, look I made 5k last week when he may not have a penny for 4 months prior.

When I initially hesitated because of law school my parents' response was they knew I was a selfish asshole. I do feel awful about my sisters - the 14 year old one was crying to me about it saying she needs me to help.

I do get annoyed when they accept my money, and still take vacations a couple times a year. They say everyone in the community goes to luxury resorts and spends 10k, and they just spend a few nights in a 90/night hotel, which is true. However, I haven't taken a vacation in 3+ years and feel guilty spending excess money although I could probably afford to.

It is funny when law schools ask about expected family contribution. Just makes it obvious my app wasn't really read.

bdubs
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby bdubs » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:41 pm

I also think it's hilarious when law school financial officers talk about expected family contribution. It's like nobody read my addendums and personal statement.


Schools are very formulaic about this, I would doubt that they even bother reading the addenda.

You need to figure out ways that you can constructively contribute to your family without their excesses ruining your own finances. Give your parents gift cards to the super market instead of cash. Definitely do not co-sign their lease for something that neither you or they can afford.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:41 pm

Take this matter to xoxohth.com. You will get much better responses.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:42 pm

splitmuch wrote:No fucking way. Its one thing to help people out, but you should expect a commitment by them to help themselves. If your dad won't take on a real job, don't take on his debt.

but am i an asshole to abandon my family when they never beat me, screwed me over, etc.? sometimes i feel like michael douglas in wall st. i'm pretty confident i'm going to make it as people i meet in person always say, you're going places. my friends have all told me they expect me to be the most successful of the bunch (and they are making 80k+ in their early 20s). this all said, whenever i see my dad or he calls me I just think in my head, "Fucking deadbeat loser. How long do I have to wait till the loser makes his point?"

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rinkrat19
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:44 pm

Awful situation. Can't even imagine how hard it would be to say no to your parents. But saying yes seems like it has about a 95% chance of ruining you, and that helps nobody.

My reaction would be "hell, no" except for your sisters. They deserve help, obviously. I almost wonder if it'd be possible for them to live with you. (Except a 6yo...wow. That would be rough.)

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:45 pm

I mean I would even take custody of my sisters, and support them. I just really don't want to support my parents as they take much more $, but I can't do one without the other. When I suggested this my mom went nuts. My dad at one point blackmailed me when I had a bad month, and didn't want to make the 500 payment. He threatened to call LS, and say I lied about disciplinary stuff.

splitmuch
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby splitmuch » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:47 pm

Get a divorce lawyer for your mom and support her and your sisters

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rinkrat19
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I mean I would even take custody of my sisters, and support them. I just really don't want to support my parents as they take much more $, but I can't do one without the other. When I suggested this my mom went nuts. My dad at one point blackmailed me when I had a bad month, and didn't want to make the 500 payment. He threatened to call LS, and say I lied about disciplinary stuff.

I'd consider notifying your school that this is a possibility.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:51 pm

splitmuch wrote:Get a divorce lawyer for your mom and support her and your sisters

the thing is i can't afford to do this. my mom needs a job. she has talked about divorce a lot (my dad actually got her to sign for the 2nd 750k he borrowed under her name). she didn't know what she was signing though. she's kicked him out a few times, but always caves. however, he'd be happy living in the projects on assisted living but my mom still wants a suburb, and middle class lifestyle. i can't even afford the lifestyle she wants now - house, vacations, eating out once a week, etc.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:55 pm

OP again. Btw, I have been vocally against URM boosts before, and though I might be atypical, I think my case shows how much it sucks to be from a dirt poor family, and white. I worked 60 hour weeks while studying for the LSAT, and undoubtedly was hurt at certain schools when I disclosed financial information regarding my family like a double negative - I was hurt for having to focus on money before everything else, and further hurt because my family was poor so please don't say the URM boost is meant to protect disadvantaged kids. It's meant to make law school racially =, the class system is fully intact in the LS game, and poor kids need to completely outshine their peers to have a shot at making it into a new class system.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby schooner » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:56 pm

Wow. That's terrible. I'm sorry you're going through such a mess.

Did you tell your parents exactly this? "I won't have the $ in my account to pay both years on their lease in the event they don't pay (which I don't see objectively how they will be able to with no jobs), I can be screwed with C+F on the bar, and my credit will be screwed meaning I can't get loan money." If you know you can't financially act as a guarantor, isn't it a fraud of some kind to sign on anyway? (I have no idea. Haven't gone to law school yet.)

Can they find another place to rent? Can you help them look? Preferably a place that doesn't require a guarantor? I'm sorry, but $2800/month? Your family should be in emergency survival mode.

Are you the ONLY member of the extended family/friends whom they've asked to be a guarantor? How about their friends?

I think you do have a moral obligation to at least look out for your younger siblings, but is there another way to do so? Being a guarantor here surely can't be the only way to do so. You can't help out in the long-term if you let your parents screw you over.

If you end up signing onto the agreement, which I think is a bad idea, you should at least require them to meet some preconditions first, like securing a job and/or a cheaper place. But if I was in your shoes, I would be very tempted to tell them my law school's financial aid or state bar rules prohibit doing things like that (signing on as a guarantor when I know I don't have the money) and just keep sending my younger sisters money to help (or have them move in with me temporarily).

bdubs
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby bdubs » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP again. Btw, I have been vocally against URM boosts before, and though I might be atypical, I think my case shows how much it sucks to be from a dirt poor family, and white. I worked 60 hour weeks while studying for the LSAT, and undoubtedly was hurt at certain schools when I disclosed financial information regarding my family like a double negative - I was hurt for having to focus on money before everything else, and further hurt because my family was poor so please don't say the URM boost is meant to protect disadvantaged kids. It's meant to make law school racially =, the class system is fully intact in the LS game, and poor kids need to completely outshine their peers to have a shot at making it into a new class system.


Wow, did you just post a ridiculous sob story to spur a debate on AA?

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby splitmuch » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
splitmuch wrote:Get a divorce lawyer for your mom and support her and your sisters

the thing is i can't afford to do this. my mom needs a job. she has talked about divorce a lot (my dad actually got her to sign for the 2nd 750k he borrowed under her name). she didn't know what she was signing though. she's kicked him out a few times, but always caves. however, he'd be happy living in the projects on assisted living but my mom still wants a suburb, and middle class lifestyle. i can't even afford the lifestyle she wants now - house, vacations, eating out once a week, etc.



Ok well step one is someone is going to have to tell your mom that those days are over and she has to deal with it.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:00 pm

bdubs wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP again. Btw, I have been vocally against URM boosts before, and though I might be atypical, I think my case shows how much it sucks to be from a dirt poor family, and white. I worked 60 hour weeks while studying for the LSAT, and undoubtedly was hurt at certain schools when I disclosed financial information regarding my family like a double negative - I was hurt for having to focus on money before everything else, and further hurt because my family was poor so please don't say the URM boost is meant to protect disadvantaged kids. It's meant to make law school racially =, the class system is fully intact in the LS game, and poor kids need to completely outshine their peers to have a shot at making it into a new class system.


Wow, did you just post a ridiculous sob story to spur a debate on AA?

nope, all information is 100% accurate.

but at ucla, for instance, speaking about being poor when asked about financial circumstances is a bad move. i didn't realize till after you really want to lie, and not say you're poor as poor = big disadvantage.

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fatduck
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby fatduck » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:05 pm

you should call Loveline

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:07 pm

schooner wrote:Wow. That's terrible. I'm sorry you're going through such a mess.

Did you tell your parents exactly this? "I won't have the $ in my account to pay both years on their lease in the event they don't pay (which I don't see objectively how they will be able to with no jobs), I can be screwed with C+F on the bar, and my credit will be screwed meaning I can't get loan money." If you know you can't financially act as a guarantor, isn't it a fraud of some kind to sign on anyway? (I have no idea. Haven't gone to law school yet.)

Can they find another place to rent? Can you help them look? Preferably a place that doesn't require a guarantor? I'm sorry, but $2800/month? Your family should be in emergency survival mode.

Are you the ONLY member of the extended family/friends whom they've asked to be a guarantor? How about their friends?

I think you do have a moral obligation to at least look out for your younger siblings, but is there another way to do so? Being a guarantor here surely can't be the only way to do so. You can't help out in the long-term if you let your parents screw you over.

If you end up signing onto the agreement, which I think is a bad idea, you should at least require them to meet some preconditions first, like securing a job and/or a cheaper place. But if I was in your shoes, I would be very tempted to tell them my law school's financial aid or state bar rules prohibit doing things like that (signing on as a guarantor when I know I don't have the money) and just keep sending my younger sisters money to help (or have them move in with me temporarily).

my parents have several millionaire relatives, but screwed over the relationship on both ends.

my dad blackmailed my grandfather a decade ago accusing him of tax fraud on an internet forum, which led to IRS investigations, because my grandfather had been giving other siblings more than he gave my family per year. this cut off that whole side of the family, and screwed them with the will where they would've gotten 300k. he also screwed over his relationships on his side of the family.

i tried to bridge the relationship for my parents before my grandfather died. i think i made good amends, but my mom brought up money way too quickly - the first time she saw him after 8 years.

does it suck? yes. in 2 years i went from being a loser to an impressive guy with a bright future. i have a good social life, hot women and am happy with my life, but i'm depressed with this and it makes me uber-aggressive. frankly, deep down i don't care about my girlfriend or my friends. i just want to make money, and a lot of money. i want to be able to have my family taken care of, and know that after that i can start a family where i never find myself in this shit. i really don't love anything or anybody although i did a couple a years ago, but now all i love is the thought of fixing this situation, and making sure it never happens again.

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fatduck
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby fatduck » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:does it suck? yes. in 2 years i went from being a loser to an impressive guy with a bright future. i have a good social life, hot women and am happy with my life, but i'm depressed with this and it makes me uber-aggressive. frankly, deep down i don't care about my girlfriend or my friends. i just want to make money, and a lot of money. i want to be able to have my family taken care of, and know that after that i can start a family where i never find myself in this shit. i really don't love anything or anybody although i did a couple a years ago, but now all i love is the thought of fixing this situation, and making sure it never happens again.

180

Anonymous User
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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:13 pm

THis is really the lolziest story I've read on TLS.

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Re: Being A Guarantor On Someone Else's Lease

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:THis is really the lolziest story I've read on TLS.

screw yourself asshole. why don't you wake up every morning worrying that your kid sisters are gonna be on the street collecting change, and then come back you piece of dirty ass shit.




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