Let's Talk Split Summers

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:27 pm

Can anyone talk about the relative advantages/disadvantages of splitting summers at 2 firms? I am interested in working in the South, and a lot of firms split summers there. Also, a lot of southern firms traditionally no-offer a non-negligible number of summers, at least when compared to NYC/LA/etc.

Does splitting increase your chances of receiving an offer because you're summering at 2 firms?
Does splitting decrease your chances of receiving an offer because you're only at each firm for half of the program?

Also, is it wise to split between two firms when you don't have a solid idea of practice preference? I have little exposure to litigation but am not totally settled on transactional/corporate yet. Would it be foolish to do one split in a corp department and the other lit?

User avatar
TaipeiMort
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:36 pm

Career Services at Chicago said that they have seen more doing split summers with no offers than two offers.

They guessed that this is because employers are taking lower percentages of their classes ITE, and splitting makes it harder to impress and express as strong of interest.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:13 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Career Services at Chicago said that they have seen more doing split summers with no offers than two offers.

They guessed that this is because employers are taking lower percentages of their classes ITE, and splitting makes it harder to impress and express as strong of interest.
Yes, this was my concern. But my--admittedly anecdotal--evidence suggests that in markets where splitting is de rigeur (i.e. the south, texas, etc), this may be less of an issue? Anyone agree/disagree?

de5igual
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:52 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby de5igual » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:17 pm

i'm actually wondering about this too. assuming i even have the chance at splitting in two different cities, how is that looked upon?

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone talk about the relative advantages/disadvantages of splitting summers at 2 firms? I am interested in working in the South, and a lot of firms split summers there. Also, a lot of southern firms traditionally no-offer a non-negligible number of summers, at least when compared to NYC/LA/etc.

Does splitting increase your chances of receiving an offer because you're summering at 2 firms?
Does splitting decrease your chances of receiving an offer because you're only at each firm for half of the program?

Also, is it wise to split between two firms when you don't have a solid idea of practice preference? I have little exposure to litigation but am not totally settled on transactional/corporate yet. Would it be foolish to do one split in a corp department and the other lit?


Splitting your summer allows you to try more than one firm on for size. You are interviewing firms as much as they are interviewing you so if you are lucky enough to split, you have more options. Most firms that I know of that have split summers try to only bring in the number of students they need to hire. The problem with that is the timeframe for those projections and firms get it wrong - a lot.

Splitting with two firms to determine your practice area is probably a good idea. You will know pretty quick if you don't like a particular practice.

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:36 pm

It's really this simple:

If you're at a firm that only does a 6-8 week program, then you're an idiot if you don't attempt to split the rest of your summer with another firm/something else. If you're at a firm that does a whole summer program, it may not be in your best interest to split because you'll only be there half the summer while the other SA's will be there the entire time. The only exception to the later statement is if you summered with a firm during your 1L summer; in that case you'll probably be okay spending only 3 or 4 weeks with them as a 2L.


I'd like to add that in the South this really won't be much of a concern. Pretty much every firm that I know of has a 6-8 week program that is either in the first or second half of the summer. You'll split based on necessity/the fact that the system is made that way, not by choice.
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:49 pm

What about splitting the summer with DOJ Honors? I would only do this if I could do the full summer with a firm, and then do 5-6 weeks with DOJ Honors. Is this possible? Also, can I just miss 1 week of classes if the timing does not, otherwise, work out.

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:52 pm

I don't know of any firm or government agency that has a summer program that runs so long that it encroaches on the start of school.

As far as DOJ Honors, if they let you work only 6-8 weeks and you have an offer at a firm that has a program that is only 6-8 weeks, sure do it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:25 am

I'd just like to add that firms are not uniform with regard to how they react splitting. I'm currently splitting and both firms I'm splitting at are known for having their summer associates split and still giving offers. The best thing you can do is talk to others who previously summered at the firms you're considering splitting with and ask them how the firm treated split summers.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Renzo » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:22 pm

Imagine for a second that you are a hiring partner, and you have 30 summers, but only 29 jobs. All of your summers did fine work, basically what was expected, and none really stand out. But one of those 30 only spent half the summer with your firm, so nobody's really pulling for her because she didn't really have time to make any connections; plus she wanted to "try out" a different job, rather than spend the whole summer with you.

Who would you no-offer?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:45 pm

Renzo wrote:Imagine for a second that you are a hiring partner, and you have 30 summers, but only 29 jobs. All of your summers did fine work, basically what was expected, and none really stand out. But one of those 30 only spent half the summer with your firm, so nobody's really pulling for her because she didn't really have time to make any connections; plus she wanted to "try out" a different job, rather than spend the whole summer with you.

Who would you no-offer?


The one who came up with the most ridiculous hypos.

Or the fat kid...

User avatar
englawyer
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:57 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby englawyer » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:41 pm

this thread should probably be bumped as choices need to be made soon. any more thoughts on this?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'd just like to add that firms are not uniform with regard to how they react splitting. I'm currently splitting and both firms I'm splitting at are known for having their summer associates split and still giving offers. The best thing you can do is talk to others who previously summered at the firms you're considering splitting with and ask them how the firm treated split summers.


I agree with this. Depends on what firms. I split with one firm who expects you to split and one firm where I was the only one splitting. Got two offers. Just depends.

Renzo wrote:Imagine for a second that you are a hiring partner, and you have 30 summers, but only 29 jobs. All of your summers did fine work, basically what was expected, and none really stand out. But one of those 30 only spent half the summer with your firm, so nobody's really pulling for her because she didn't really have time to make any connections; plus she wanted to "try out" a different job, rather than spend the whole summer with you.

Who would you no-offer?


Depends on a lot of other factors. Your point is taken, but as I said above, this is just a possibility, not a probability.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:03 am

What's the likelihood that a top V5 firm would allow me to split my summer with a top consulting firm in the same city?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Renzo wrote:Imagine for a second that you are a hiring partner, and you have 30 summers, but only 29 jobs. All of your summers did fine work, basically what was expected, and none really stand out. But one of those 30 only spent half the summer with your firm, so nobody's really pulling for her because she didn't really have time to make any connections; plus she wanted to "try out" a different job, rather than spend the whole summer with you.

Who would you no-offer?


The one who came up with the most ridiculous hypos.

Or the fat kid...


Ridiculous hypos can actually persuade. I'm all about ridiculous hypos.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:25 am

Question re Texas:
I spend first half in a 6-8 week program. Can I just peace out of summer employment and get a tan on the southern shores of Italy, or will the first half firm think ill of me for not summering the second half?

User avatar
snailio
Posts: 209
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:40 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby snailio » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:Question re Texas:
I spend first half in a 6-8 week program. Can I just peace out of summer employment and get a tan on the southern shores of Italy, or will the first half firm think ill of me for not summering the second half?




No problem just leave them your hotel number so they can forward your offer.

Renzo
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Renzo » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:09 pm

Don't ever for any reason split with two private sector entities. It's about the most sure-fire way I can think of to prove that you aren't really committed to a firm, and they'll remember that when it's time to make offer decisions.

Some firms allow splits with PI outfits (a few even pay you while you're there). This is slightly less dicey. Personally I wouldn't risk it, but you can certainly sell it to a firm as "I want to work here at your firm, but this summer is my last chance to do _______, and I think it will make me a more well-rounded lawyer when I hopefully come back here in a year."

Question re Texas:
I spend first half in a 6-8 week program. Can I just peace out of summer employment and get a tan on the southern shores of Italy, or will the first half firm think ill of me for not summering the second half?

If you are completing the firms full-length summer, then fuck yeah--vacation ahoy. If you are talking about trying to work a shorter than standard (for that firm) summer, or essentially "split" your summer so you can lay on the beach, you have found a good way to make sure you have plenty of time to lay your unemployed ass on the beach after graduation

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:19 pm

what about for people considering (or likely to get) clerkships? would that make splitting less terrible, because you are not as reliant on an end-of-summer offer to get a job? i've been told looking for a job after a clerkship is essentially a way to redo the job search process, albeit with an offer in hand. but so many clerks go to firms other than the ones they summered at...so is this as big a concern?

de5igual
Posts: 1463
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:52 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby de5igual » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:43 pm

Renzo wrote:Don't ever for any reason split with two private sector entities. It's about the most sure-fire way I can think of to prove that you aren't really committed to a firm, and they'll remember that when it's time to make offer decisions.

Some firms allow splits with PI outfits (a few even pay you while you're there). This is slightly less dicey. Personally I wouldn't risk it, but you can certainly sell it to a firm as "I want to work here at your firm, but this summer is my last chance to do _______, and I think it will make me a more well-rounded lawyer when I hopefully come back here in a year."

Question re Texas:
I spend first half in a 6-8 week program. Can I just peace out of summer employment and get a tan on the southern shores of Italy, or will the first half firm think ill of me for not summering the second half?

If you are completing the firms full-length summer, then fuck yeah--vacation ahoy. If you are talking about trying to work a shorter than standard (for that firm) summer, or essentially "split" your summer so you can lay on the beach, you have found a good way to make sure you have plenty of time to lay your unemployed ass on the beach after graduation


Your advice probably holds for any market besides Texas. In TX, firms encourage splits (with most firms essentially mandating them by only having a six week "first half" program at the very beginning of summer) and not splitting can be taken as a negative (as in, you couldn't secure something second half).

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby kalvano » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:24 pm

Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:29 pm

kalvano wrote:Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.


This is even more true of Birmingham firms. All of the major players in the market only offer 6 week programs.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273506
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kalvano wrote:Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.


This is even more true of Birmingham firms. All of the major players in the market only offer 6 week programs.


Yep. You have to split in the Ham.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
kalvano wrote:Yes, in Texas, split summers are pretty much standard. It's very rare to have a Texas firm that has a full summer program.


This is even more true of Birmingham firms. All of the major players in the market only offer 6 week programs.


Same in Tennessee

smittytron3k
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: Let's Talk Split Summers

Postby smittytron3k » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:19 pm

First, a global note: no employer is looking to "ding" you for whatever reason they can, just to do it. They do it to differentiate between candidates *when they have to*. If there is no need to differentiate, there is no need to ding or to no-offer.

Firms wouldn't allow you to split or pay you to come for 6-8 weeks if they didn't view you as a potential candidate for full-time employment. They are not looking to no-offer people, because their business model is based on robust associate hiring and 100% offer rates are becoming the norm once again. Is your risk of being no-offered higher? Maybe, but I don't think there's enough data to say one way or the other. The important thing is that the two firms you choose are not hesitant/wary about it, that you work your tail off at *both* jobs, and that you make it clear (through your actions, not just by saying so) that you are not splitting just so you can hedge your bets, take a vacation in a west coast market, or some other stupid reason. Remember, the presumption when you are an SA is that you will get an offer if you are a good fit, are competent at your job, and come across as taking the position seriously. Do these things and I think you will do OK.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.