Texas and Southern ties

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Texas and Southern ties

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:43 pm

I know that Texas firms are infamous for desiring ties to Texas. But what about having ties to the South (Georgia, South Carolina, Miss, etc.)? The regions have a lot of similarity and they are not that far apart geographically. I understand the hesitation that Texas firms might have in hiring someone from NY, DC, California, or Chicago, but, considering the similarity of the regiions, it would seem like they would be relatively accepting of Southerners. I appreciate any advice that people familiar with Texas firms and hiring have. Thanks in advance.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:59 pm

I asked a bunch of fiirms this. They said (generally) coming from outside of texas, a summer job helps in Texas, and having a believable reason for being there. The two directly mentioned to me were Southerner, and conservative family types (Mormons or Duggaresque Evangelicals) who want to start families and buy houses. This is because they fear you will not fit in the state and you or spouse will want to leave, and these groups are good proxies for wanting to stay, and not actually because of a particular religious or ideological belief such as Evangelical, Mormon or Southerner actually makes you a better Texas lawyer.

Texas is awesome though. I just went to the store and paid like 5 percent sales tax (and no income tax). It beats Chicago, where I pay 11 percent tax plus all other types of hidden taxes to subsidize Dems' special interest voters.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:06 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:I asked a bunch of fiirms this. They said (generally) coming from outside of texas, a summer job helps in Texas, and having a believable reason for being there. The two directly mentioned were Southerner, and conservative family types (Mormons or Duggaresque Evangelical). This is because they fear you will not fit in the state and you or spouse will want to leave, and not actually because of a particular religious or ideological belief such as Evangelical, Mormon or Southerner actually makes you a better Texas lawyer.

Texas is awesome though. I just went to the store and paid like 5 percent sales tax (and no income tax). It beats Chicago, where I pay 11 percent tax plus all other types of hidden taxes to subsidize Dems' special interest voters.


But wouldn't being a Southerner make you more likely to fit in with Texas, and not want to leave? I mean what exactly is so different about Texas than the South that would make a Southerner want to leave? It's not the heat or the culture? I guess the demographics are a bit different (more latinos) but seriously, what's so different?

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kapachino
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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby kapachino » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:I asked a bunch of fiirms this. They said (generally) coming from outside of texas, a summer job helps in Texas, and having a believable reason for being there. The two directly mentioned were Southerner, and conservative family types (Mormons or Duggaresque Evangelical). This is because they fear you will not fit in the state and you or spouse will want to leave, and not actually because of a particular religious or ideological belief such as Evangelical, Mormon or Southerner actually makes you a better Texas lawyer.

Texas is awesome though. I just went to the store and paid like 5 percent sales tax (and no income tax). It beats Chicago, where I pay 11 percent tax plus all other types of hidden taxes to subsidize Dems' special interest voters.


But wouldn't being a Southerner make you more likely to fit in with Texas, and not want to leave? I mean what exactly is so different about Texas than the South that would make a Southerner want to leave? It's not the heat or the culture? I guess the demographics are a bit different (more latinos) but seriously, what's so different?


Texas isn't that Southern. Why do you think it gets left out when people talk about the Dirty South? It's more cowboys and cattle drives than mint juleps and tobacco farming, know what I mean? The culture is more western in the small towns and more urban and metropolitan in the larger cities. Houston is really the only "Southern" part of Texas, but that's changing. If you plan to practice in Dallas, Austin, or San Antonio, your adherence to Southerness could work against you. If you want to go to the smaller towns, especially in East Texas, then you'd fit in, but you might find a metropolis like Dallas unappealing.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby bdubs » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:17 pm

kapachino wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:But wouldn't being a Southerner make you more likely to fit in with Texas, and not want to leave? I mean what exactly is so different about Texas than the South that would make a Southerner want to leave? It's not the heat or the culture? I guess the demographics are a bit different (more latinos) but seriously, what's so different?


Texas isn't that Southern. Why do you think it gets left out when people talk about the Dirty South? It's more cowboys and cattle drives than mint juleps and tobacco farming, know what I mean? The culture is more western and metropolitan than Southern. Except for Houston, that is, but that's changing. If you plan to practice in Dallas, Austin, or San Antonio, your adherence to Southerness could work against you. If you want to go to the smaller towns, especially in East Texas, then you'd fit in, but you might find a metropolis like Dallas unappealing.


This is exactly the reason you can't use this. People in TX think TX is distinct from the south, whereas everyone else doesn't. If you say "Hey Mr. Dallas office partner, I'm just like you because I'm from Mississippi" he will tell you to GTFO of his office.

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kapachino
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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby kapachino » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:19 pm

bdubs wrote:
kapachino wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:But wouldn't being a Southerner make you more likely to fit in with Texas, and not want to leave? I mean what exactly is so different about Texas than the South that would make a Southerner want to leave? It's not the heat or the culture? I guess the demographics are a bit different (more latinos) but seriously, what's so different?


Texas isn't that Southern. Why do you think it gets left out when people talk about the Dirty South? It's more cowboys and cattle drives than mint juleps and tobacco farming, know what I mean? The culture is more western and metropolitan than Southern. Except for Houston, that is, but that's changing. If you plan to practice in Dallas, Austin, or San Antonio, your adherence to Southerness could work against you. If you want to go to the smaller towns, especially in East Texas, then you'd fit in, but you might find a metropolis like Dallas unappealing.


This is exactly the reason you can't use this. People in TX think TX is distinct from the south, whereas everyone else doesn't. If you say "Hey Mr. Dallas office partner, I'm just like you because I'm from Mississippi" he will tell you to GTFO of his office.


Texas is unlike any other place in the country. I mean that both positively and negatively, but you are dead wrong about it being the same as Louisiana et al. It's not remotely Southern. I should know...I've lived here for most of my life.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby bdubs » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:22 pm

kapachino wrote:
bdubs wrote:
kapachino wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:But wouldn't being a Southerner make you more likely to fit in with Texas, and not want to leave? I mean what exactly is so different about Texas than the South that would make a Southerner want to leave? It's not the heat or the culture? I guess the demographics are a bit different (more latinos) but seriously, what's so different?


Texas isn't that Southern. Why do you think it gets left out when people talk about the Dirty South? It's more cowboys and cattle drives than mint juleps and tobacco farming, know what I mean? The culture is more western and metropolitan than Southern. Except for Houston, that is, but that's changing. If you plan to practice in Dallas, Austin, or San Antonio, your adherence to Southerness could work against you. If you want to go to the smaller towns, especially in East Texas, then you'd fit in, but you might find a metropolis like Dallas unappealing.


This is exactly the reason you can't use this. People in TX think TX is distinct from the south, whereas everyone else doesn't. If you say "Hey Mr. Dallas office partner, I'm just like you because I'm from Mississippi" he will tell you to GTFO of his office.


Texas is unlike any other place in the country. I mean that both positively and negatively, but you are dead wrong about it being the same as Louisiana et al. It's not remotely Southern. I should know...I've lived here for most of my life.


People from the South say TX is like the South.
People from the North and West say TX is like the South.
People from TX still insist that TX is not like the South.

It doesn't really matter though because OP can't use it as a distant "tie" to the market. It will be rejected by the only people who matter in the decision making process.
Last edited by bdubs on Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:24 pm

bdubs wrote:This is exactly the reason you can't use this. People in TX think TX is distinct from the south, whereas everyone else doesn't. If you say "Hey Mr. Dallas office partner, I'm just like you because I'm from Mississippi" he will tell you to GTFO of his office.


LMAO. I get that it's not the same as the South--it's southwestern. As a Southerner I have to explain this to people who aren't from Texas or the South all the time; they just automatically assume that since both regions are socially conservative (compared to the NE and California) that they're exactly the same. But what I'm saying is that they should realize that a Southerner is going to have a much easier time adapting to Texas, and is much more likely to like Texas, than someone from NYC, DC, or SF. We're going to be much less of a flight risk than someone from Brooklyn. They should be able to recognize that. I mean what exactly would we have to acclimate ourselves to? More latino influence, dry heat as opposed to humid, and no state income taxes :D ?

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby kapachino » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:26 pm

bdubs wrote:

People from the South say TX is like the South.
People from the North and West say TX is like the South.
People from TX still insist that TX is not like the South.


Anecdotal generalizations about some outsiders' perspectives won't help the OP settle this issue. I mean, what's the point in listening to someone on something when they don't know anything about it? That's just stupid.
Last edited by kapachino on Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby kapachino » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:This is exactly the reason you can't use this. People in TX think TX is distinct from the south, whereas everyone else doesn't. If you say "Hey Mr. Dallas office partner, I'm just like you because I'm from Mississippi" he will tell you to GTFO of his office.


LMAO. I get that it's not the same as the South--it's southwestern. As a Southerner I have to explain this to people who aren't from Texas or the South all the time; they just automatically assume that since both regions are socially conservative (compared to the NE and California) that they're exactly the same. But what I'm saying is that they should realize that a Southerner is going to have a much easier time adapting to Texas, and is much more likely to like Texas, than someone from NYC, DC, or SF. We're going to be much less of a flight risk than someone from Brooklyn. They should be able to recognize that. I mean what exactly would we have to acclimate ourselves to? More latino influence, dry heat as opposed to humid, and no state income taxes :D ?


It's extremely humid here. :D Don't know where you got the dry heat idea from, haha. If you go to Lubbock, El Paso, or Abilene, you'll come across the dry heat, but most of it is a sweltering mess. As for acclimating...what do you mean exactly? If nothing else, Texas has Southern hospitality and other Southern basics, but that's about it. You'll be welcomed, but there are ways that your Southerness could work against you.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby de5igual » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:48 pm

1) why is anyone here posting anonymously?

2) from a mock interview i had this past year, the advice i was given from a partner at the firm was to establish stronger ties (ie, have things on the resume that are texas specific, like joining the Oil, Gas & Energy Journal or the Oil&Gas Society, working in-state for the summer, etc). so, if my going to UT, being southern, and general interest in energy law isn't considered a strong tie, i doubt being merely "southern" will cut it for the most part.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby deadpanic » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:50 pm

bdubs wrote:People from the South say TX is like the South.
People from the North and West say TX is like the South.
People from TX still insist that TX is not like the South.

It doesn't really matter though because OP can't use it as a distant "tie" to the market. It will be rejected by the only people who matter in the decision making process.


I'm from the South and don't consider TX part of the south (except for maybe some small towns in East TX).

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:56 pm

1L SA with a Biglaw firm in Texas (not Texas-based), so read my opinion accordingly.

The majority of the SAs here have some sort of tie to Texas (worked here previously, went to UG here, are from here). There is one SA who is from the South but has no (desireable) legal market to work in, so s/he came to this market. I should probably note that this SA has other things that make him/her a desireable candidate and likely contributed to the willingness of our office to give him/her an offer despite his/her lack of "strong" Texas connections.

That being said, if working in Texas is something you actually want to do then I think you should emphasize that in your correspondance and interviews with Texas firms. Come up with reasons why you want to work in Texas and make sure you are able to effectively communicate those reasons to whoever you speak with. Even though I was born and raised in Texas (go to law school in another state) I have a long list of reasons why I want to work in Texas and a vast majority of them are not at all related to the ties I have to this state.

Also, really only Houston careas about Oil & Energy. Not every Texas market is as undiversified as theres.
Last edited by Stanford4Me on Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:58 pm

Yeah, I'm not actually from the south but I grew up on a tobacco farm and the closest town was a big tobacco market until the 90's. Texas is pretty different than anywhere else I've been. I'd imagine most Texans would believe that you want to work in Texas just because Texas is so awesome that you want to be there though.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby kapachino » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:01 pm

AreJay711 wrote:Yeah, I'm not actually from the south but I grew up on a tobacco farm and the closest town was a big tobacco market until the 90's. Texas is pretty different than anywhere else I've been. I'd imagine most Texans would believe that you want to work in Texas just because Texas is so awesome that you want to be there though.



Texas isn't awesome. There are some places that are awesome, but collectively, it's low-key depressing.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:04 pm

kapachino wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:Yeah, I'm not actually from the south but I grew up on a tobacco farm and the closest town was a big tobacco market until the 90's. Texas is pretty different than anywhere else I've been. I'd imagine most Texans would believe that you want to work in Texas just because Texas is so awesome that you want to be there though.



Texas isn't awesome. There are some places that are awesome, but collectively, it's low-key depressing.


--ImageRemoved--
Last edited by Stanford4Me on Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kapachino
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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby kapachino » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:05 pm

Stanford4Me wrote:
kapachino wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:Yeah, I'm not actually from the south but I grew up on a tobacco farm and the closest town was a big tobacco market until the 90's. Texas is pretty different than anywhere else I've been. I'd imagine most Texans would believe that you want to work in Texas just because Texas is so awesome that you want to be there though.



Texas isn't awesome. There are some places that are awesome, but collectively, it's low-key depressing.


--ImageRemoved--



There are just some things I don't like about our home state. Like Rick Perry.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby Stanford4Me » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:06 pm

kapachino wrote:
There are just some things I don't like about our home state. Like Rick Perry.


Agreed. I focus on the major cities as opposed to the state as a whole. I mean, think about New York...people often forget how depressing (and racist and po'dunk) upstate New York is.

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Re: Texas and Southern ties

Postby TaipeiMort » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:40 pm

My point was not that being from the South is the same as being a Texan. Rather, being from the South, or being part of a group which holds family-centric ideological beliefs are both indicative of a preference to live in Texas. If you aren't from Texas, having such a concrete expression of your desire to live in the state will give you a leg-up-- especially because Southerns and evangelicals are URMs at top schools.

This is the same as being a Jew from Miami with no ties to New York trying to explain to New York law firms why you would want to live in New York, or being Catholic and wanting to work for a Chicago/Boston/Philadelphia law firm.

Law firm recruiters can't read minds and can't spend much time evaluating the same excuses that every applicant will give in order to explain Texas preference. Having concrete qualities are always better than just expressing your preference.




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