Moot Court's Effect On OCI

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Anonymous User
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Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:32 am

Didn't write on to LR or a secondary journal, but made moot court which is more competitive than both at my school. I have been looking at firms in my target markets (PA, NY, NJ, CT) and it seems almost everyone has a secondary journal and not moot court. How much of an adverse effect is this going to have on my employment prospects? Top-100 school above median grades. Not getting BigLaw (well aware), but my reaches are smaller firms with maybe 2-3 offices throughout this region. I am interested in litigation and can't stand the thought of doing transactional work. Thanks for any meaningful help in advance!

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RVP11
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby RVP11 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:made moot court which is more competitive than both at my school.


No, it's not.

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:42 am

RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:made moot court which is more competitive than both at my school.


No, it's not.


It is. That's what I was told when notified. Thanks for the input toolbag.

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TTH
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:made moot court which is more competitive than both at my school.


No, it's not.


It is. That's what I was told when notified. Thanks for the input toolbag.


By who? An upper-level member of moot court?

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cmckid
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby cmckid » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:52 am

From what I've heard, it teaches you good skills for litigation work but its harder to control for quality and doesn't have the prestige of reviewing for a journal.

Plus, think about it this way; most associates flame out before they start making many appearances in a courtroom. Law review teaches you research skills that are important for any associate. WHy take a guy who will be good in the courtroom if there is no proof he/she can hack it in the research? The odds simply dictate that a LR person is more likely to help in their first few years than a moot court participant.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:53 am

Firms don't really care too much about moot court because the "litigation training" it provides is most similar to appellate work than it is to the district court litigation most big firms do.

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:56 am

TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:made moot court which is more competitive than both at my school.


No, it's not.


It is. That's what I was told when notified. Thanks for the input toolbag.


By who? An upper-level member of moot court?


Yes by the president or co-chair. They took half the number of people that LR took and secondary journals invited.

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TTH
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It is. That's what I was told when notified. Thanks for the input toolbag.


By who? An upper-level member of moot court?


Yes by the president or co-chair. They took half the number of people that LR took and secondary journals invited.


Yeah, I'm Secretary-Treasurer of my law school's chapter of the porn and chicken club. When we invite new members, we tell them it's more exclusive and preftigious than journal, too.

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:02 am

TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
TTH wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It is. That's what I was told when notified. Thanks for the input toolbag.


By who? An upper-level member of moot court?


Yes by the president or co-chair. They took half the number of people that LR took and secondary journals invited.


Yeah, I'm Secretary-Treasurer of my law school's chapter of the porn and chicken club. When we invite new members, we tell them it's more exclusive and preftigious than journal, too.


Thanks for the productive comment. Once again this site proves useless.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:05 am

Thanks for the productive comment. Once again this site proves useless.


You already received your answer earlier in this thread:
seriouslyinformative wrote:Firms don't really care too much about moot court because the "litigation training" it provides is most similar to appellate work than it is to the district court litigation most big firms do.

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TTH
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby TTH » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:07 am

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Thanks for the productive comment. Once again this site proves useless.


You already received your answer earlier in this thread:
seriouslyinformative wrote:Firms don't really care too much about moot court because the "litigation training" it provides is most similar to appellate work than it is to the district court litigation most big firms do.


Beyond that, you should infer from our mockery that no one is going to take seriously your claim that, at your school, moot court > journal.

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Borhas
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Borhas » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:11 am

firms don't care about your skills they care about your credentials

moot court > journal.


that wasn't his claim, he said it was more competitive, and depending on the number of people that try out, and the size of the team, and the number of slots on journal and the way people get on journal, then yeah it is more competitive.

I know that there's no way I would have made the moot court team at my school, but journal was definitely feasible

EDIT: now that I re-read I see a possible ambiguity... if OP meant competitive in the sense of helping him be a more competitive employment candidate, then yeah LR>>MC... if he meant competitive in the sense that MC is more selective... that may or may not be true depending on the team.
Last edited by Borhas on Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:12 am

Yes by the president or co-chair. They took half the number of people that LR took and secondary journals invited.


You realize that taking fewer people doesn't necessarily imply higher selectivity, right?

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:52 am

To clear up any ambiguity in my initial post, yes moot court is more competitive (it takes fewer people and there are usually 120+ applicants for 20 slots) to get on than any of the journals (which is strictly write-on based). I was ill the week of the write-on competition and handed in a submission but it wasn't nearly at the level of my normal work. I guess what I was getting at is if employers who routinely recruit from my school will know that moot court is more competitive (and in some ways more prestigious if you go by selectivity as a criteria) and that not doing a journal will not be a big deal.

I have done some preliminary research for OCI and most firms who post requirements stipulate moot court and/or law review/journal. Just wanted to get a general sense of how much (if any) I hurt myself. Serious replies are appreciated.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 am

TTH wrote:Yeah, I'm Secretary-Treasurer of my law school's chapter of the porn and chicken club. When we invite new members, we tell them it's more exclusive and preftigious than journal, too.


Chicken porn? Way to play into Ohio stereotypes....

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby spanktheduck » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:17 am

It shows you did something in law school. It is better than nothing and gives you, potentially, something to talk about in an interview. Beyond that, no one cares. Regardless of whether or not moot court is more "competitive" at your school (something I fine incredible hard to believe), it is Law Review >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else. Law review is proxy for grades and grades are what are important.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:18 am

spanktheduck wrote:It shows you did something in law school. It is better than nothing and gives you, potentially, something to talk about in an interview. Beyond that, no one cares.


This is credited and from what I've heard from upperclassmen, the same thing can be said about secondary journals.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:19 am

I think Moot Court importance is about on par with being president of a student group. The latter is even more competitive than moot court AND law review, since only one person is chosen for the position.

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby pleasetryagain » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:28 am

TTH wrote:
it's more exclusive and preftigious than journal, too.


well done

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby NE1410S » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:36 am

Arguing what is more competitive is a waste of time.

Moot court is great for OCI. It's not about being in trial. It does two things for you as a student.

First, it teaches you to think on your feet about complex legal issues. This happens every day as an associate because you will be answering questions for your boss, co-workers, clients, and maybe even judges. A firm wants to know that you can handle a tough conversation.

Second, moot court is full of writing. I've writing three moot court briefs totaling over 150 pages. Don't argue that it's better or worse than LR. The nice thing about moot court writing is that you use the citation standards you will use in practice, not the academic citations used for LR. It's just as good but in a different way.

With that said, if you're seeking a job with a top firm, you'll need good grades and LR is a huge plus.

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:39 am

Some law firms do a considerable amount of appellate work & some large DA offices have appellate divisions. Both may show interest in significant moot court experience.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:58 am

Some law firms do a considerable amount of appellate work



OP isn't competitive at any of them, so it doesn't matter.

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby BenJ » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:04 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
spanktheduck wrote:It shows you did something in law school. It is better than nothing and gives you, potentially, something to talk about in an interview. Beyond that, no one cares.


This is credited and from what I've heard from upperclassmen, the same thing can be said about secondary journals.


Yes; my understanding is that moot court is generally slightly better than a secondary journal (unless you were at a school where secondary journals were very hard to come by) but nowhere near the prestige of LR. But also that neither really matters except that you ought to be doing something, and moot court counts as something.

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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:06 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Some law firms do a considerable amount of appellate work



OP isn't competitive at any of them, so it doesn't matter.


Don't want to be either.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Moot Court's Effect On OCI

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
seriouslyinformative wrote:
Some law firms do a considerable amount of appellate work



OP isn't competitive at any of them, so it doesn't matter.


Don't want to be either.


Therefore: Case closed. End of thread.




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