Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

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thesealocust
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:29 am

blowhard wrote:So, if you had 30 bids at Michigan and wanted to bid mainly DC with some bids in NYC as a precaution. Would you bid like:

safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (NYC)
safety (NYC)
safety (NYC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (NYC)
Target (NYC)
Target (NYC)
Reach (DC)
etc?

Or bid all DC then NYC firms?

Trying to figure out a good strategy... A little concerned I may not get interviews at all with the firms I really want but whose median GPA is a bit higher than mine.


There are no safety firms anywhere, and there is nothing even bordering on vaguely resembling a safety (big law) firm in DC. Even people with great grades get way fewer interviews and CBs looking at DC than other markets.

03121202698008
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:46 am

thesealocust wrote:
blowhard wrote:So, if you had 30 bids at Michigan and wanted to bid mainly DC with some bids in NYC as a precaution. Would you bid like:

safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (NYC)
safety (NYC)
safety (NYC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (NYC)
Target (NYC)
Target (NYC)
Reach (DC)
etc?

Or bid all DC then NYC firms?

Trying to figure out a good strategy... A little concerned I may not get interviews at all with the firms I really want but whose median GPA is a bit higher than mine.


There are no safety firms anywhere, and there is nothing even bordering on vaguely resembling a safety (big law) firm in DC. Even people with great grades get way fewer interviews and CBs looking at DC than other markets.


I mean as much of a safety as they can be...median GPA's >.3 under mine.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:Pretty sure the facts I'll give will out me, but at least this way it doesn't show up in my post history.

I was accepted as a transfer to SLS. I'm top 5% at a tier one midwest state school, with no significant ties to either coast. I don't have great softs, I'm white, have no post undergrad work experience. I have some vaguely interesting softs other than WE, but I am nothing even close to the exceptional people my classmates will be. I am transferring for academia/clerkship chances, but want to do a biglaw SA or a couple years in biglaw after graduation.

I have absolutely NO IDEA how i am supposed to bid. I am interested in litigation, and would love to live in CA, but I know they're huge on ties. Is transferring to S a sufficient tie to make an SF/LA heavy bidlist safeish?

Chicago would be the closest major market to home, but they're big on ties as well, and I seriously don't think I have been to Chicago in 5 years at least. Is being from the midwest at large a sufficient tie?

Should I just say fuck ties, we'll do it live, and bid NYC only even though I'd rather not move across the country again?


Call OCS as soon as you can, and try to speak with Susan or Deidre. Bay Area firms really do love Stanford kids, so if you want to do lit in SF/SV you're probably fine. Bid some of the big NYC offices for safeties I'd imagine. OCS should be able to tell you what firms are less likely to take transfers, particularly coming from a mid-Tier 1. Congrats on transferring :) You're going to love SLS.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:14 pm

I want to try one more time. I know its less glamorous to help someone who is top 1/3rd at a T20 LA school, but I could really use some help here if anyone can provide it. Also, I've been trying to help other ppl on here using the anon post.... so if anyone can share the love I'd greatly appreciate it.

I want to work in Litigation or white collar Criminal Defense (but I will take anything!)
Basically just doing the Socal market.

My question is: should I put more firms that have large LA summer classes (ie. latham and paul hastings, Mofo, Sheppard) in my top ten/top five? My GPA allows me to have a shot with those firms, but I feel like smaller shops might look more favorably on my position in the class.
Also, I have a lot of firms with lower GPA standards in the bottom of my list. They aren't very big, and I feel like more will bid them. That said, should I bring a few "safety" types into the top of my list? Are there really safety firms in a market like LA?

Thoughts?


1. Manatt, Phelps (LA)
2. Alston & Bird (LA)
3. Greenberg Traurig (LA)
4. Mckenna Long (LA)
5. Akin Gump (LA)
6. Sidley Austin (LA)
7. Sheppard Mullin (LA)
8. Paul Hastings (LA)
9. K&L Gates (LA)
10. Latham (OC)
11. Latham (LA)
12. Orrick Harrington (LA)
13. Gibson Dunn (Irvine)
14. Dewey Lebouef (LA)
15. DLA Piper (LA)
16. Perkins Coie (LA)
17. Katten Muchen (LA)
18. Baker & Hoesteller (LA)
19. Cooley (SD)
20. Venable (LA)
21. Mitchell Sillberg (LA)
22. O’Melveney (OC)
23. Morrison Forrester (LA)
24. Gresham Savage (SB)
25. Proskauer (LA)
26. Rutan Tucker (LA)
27. Fulbright (LA)
28. Fennemore Craig (Phx)
29. Brownstein Hyatt (Denver)
30. Hahn & Hahn
31. Haynes
32. Troutman Sanders (Irvine)
33. Keesal & Long
34. Morgan & Lewis
35. White & Case (LA)
36. Fenwick & West (SF)
37. Stroock & Stroock (LA)
38. Bryan Cave (LA)
39. McDermott, Will & Emory

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I want to try one more time. I know its less glamorous to help someone who is top 1/3rd at a T20 LA school, but I could really use some help here if anyone can provide it. Also, I've been trying to help other ppl on here using the anon post.... so if anyone can share the love I'd greatly appreciate it.

I want to work in Litigation or white collar Criminal Defense (but I will take anything!)
Basically just doing the Socal market.

My question is: should I put more firms that have large LA summer classes (ie. latham and paul hastings, Mofo, Sheppard) in my top ten/top five? My GPA allows me to have a shot with those firms, but I feel like smaller shops might look more favorably on my position in the class.

Thoughts?


Does OCS release ratios of bids to interviews? I know I had to bid MoFo in my top 5 because they had a 2.5:1 ratio of bids to interviews last year. I'm risk-averse, so I'd probably bump some of the larger class sizes up just to guarantee I got them, rather than risk getting too cutesy and miss some of the places you've got a better shot. The big firms, like Gibson, MoFo and Latham, are pretty big reaches with your stats, though, so I'm torn. I'd move up MoFo, Fenwick and Cooley, but keep your top 5 as is.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:23 pm

Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I want to try one more time. I know its less glamorous to help someone who is top 1/3rd at a T20 LA school, but I could really use some help here if anyone can provide it. Also, I've been trying to help other ppl on here using the anon post.... so if anyone can share the love I'd greatly appreciate it.

I want to work in Litigation or white collar Criminal Defense (but I will take anything!)
Basically just doing the Socal market.

My question is: should I put more firms that have large LA summer classes (ie. latham and paul hastings, Mofo, Sheppard) in my top ten/top five? My GPA allows me to have a shot with those firms, but I feel like smaller shops might look more favorably on my position in the class.

Thoughts?


Does OCS release ratios of bids to interviews? I know I had to bid MoFo in my top 5 because they had a 2.5:1 ratio of bids to interviews last year. I'm risk-averse, so I'd probably bump some of the larger class sizes up just to guarantee I got them, rather than risk getting too cutesy and miss some of the places you've got a better shot. The big firms, like Gibson, MoFo and Latham, are pretty big reaches with your stats, though, so I'm torn. I'd move up MoFo, Fenwick and Cooley, but keep your top 5 as is.



Thanks for the advice... what about Sheppard? They have a pretty big LA class, and don't seem quite as competitive as the others. Should I just leave that where it is?

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I want to try one more time. I know its less glamorous to help someone who is top 1/3rd at a T20 LA school, but I could really use some help here if anyone can provide it. Also, I've been trying to help other ppl on here using the anon post.... so if anyone can share the love I'd greatly appreciate it.

I want to work in Litigation or white collar Criminal Defense (but I will take anything!)
Basically just doing the Socal market.

My question is: should I put more firms that have large LA summer classes (ie. latham and paul hastings, Mofo, Sheppard) in my top ten/top five? My GPA allows me to have a shot with those firms, but I feel like smaller shops might look more favorably on my position in the class.

Thoughts?


Does OCS release ratios of bids to interviews? I know I had to bid MoFo in my top 5 because they had a 2.5:1 ratio of bids to interviews last year. I'm risk-averse, so I'd probably bump some of the larger class sizes up just to guarantee I got them, rather than risk getting too cutesy and miss some of the places you've got a better shot. The big firms, like Gibson, MoFo and Latham, are pretty big reaches with your stats, though, so I'm torn. I'd move up MoFo, Fenwick and Cooley, but keep your top 5 as is.



Thanks for the advice... what about Sheppard? They have a pretty big LA class, and don't seem quite as competitive as the others. Should I just leave that where it is?


I'll admit I know nothing about Sheppard (I'm not bidding on it), but in that case I'd probably move it up a bit as well. Big class + lower grade requirements should be high (within your top 15). Just ask the question: Do I want to guarantee an interview somewhere I have a shot with my credentials, or move them down hoping to get more interviews and risk not getting them at all?

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:03 pm

LA poster: Sheppard Mullin, Latham, and Paul Hastings (along with OMM) should be very close to the top of your list. A bunch of firms in your top 15 or so (Sidley, Orrick, Akin Gump, K&L Gates) had small summer classes, and you're missing some firms with big summer classes (O'Melveny LA/Century City is the most obvious). FWIW I think that aiming for places with decently large class sizes towards the top of your list is probably the way to go).

If you want MoFo you should bid them higher, but TBH I think it's a huge reach with your stats. It's number 1 on my list for exactly the same reason: there are 20 interview slots and tons of people want it.

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beach_terror
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby beach_terror » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?

Yes

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...

What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?

Primary Markets: New York, Los Angeles, Washington, Chicago, San Francisco

Large Secondary Markets: Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Houston, Dallas

Regional Secondary Markets: Seattle, Denver, Phoenix, San Diego, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Miami, Charlotte, Richmond, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Detroit

lawblahblah
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby lawblahblah » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:01 pm

Only one more day to make changes, any thoughts? UCLA, Law Review, probably outer edge or just outside top 10%. LA unless otherwise noted.

1 Skadden
2 Latham Watkins
3 Morrison Foerster
4 Sheppard Mullin
5 Sidley Austin
6 Jones Day
7 O'Melveny [deleted]
8 Davis Polk (Palo Alto)
9 Gibson Dunn
10 Munger Tolles
11 Wilson Sonsini (Palo Alto)
12 Paul Hastings
13 Alston Bird
14 Orrick Herrington
15 Kirkland Ellis
16 Akin Gump
17 Katten Muchin
18 White & Case
19 Cooley LLP (Palo Alto)
20 Ropes & Gray (Palo Alto)
21 Proskauer Rose LLP
22 Bingham McCutchen
23 Jenner & Block
24 Winston Strawn
25 Mayer Brown
26 Pillsbury Winthrop
27 Snell & Wilmer (SLC)
28 Simpson Thacher
29 Wilmerhale
30 Arnold Porter
31 DLA Piper
32 Foley & Lardner
33 Pircher Nichols
34 Jeffer, Mangels
35 Crowell & Moring (OC)
36 Fulbright
37 Hogan Lovells
38 Rutan & Tucker (OC)
39 Stradling Yocca(OC)
40 Milbank Tweed

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:LA poster: Sheppard Mullin, Latham, and Paul Hastings (along with OMM) should be very close to the top of your list. A bunch of firms in your top 15 or so (Sidley, Orrick, Akin Gump, K&L Gates) had small summer classes, and you're missing some firms with big summer classes (O'Melveny LA/Century City is the most obvious). FWIW I think that aiming for places with decently large class sizes towards the top of your list is probably the way to go).

If you want MoFo you should bid them higher, but TBH I think it's a huge reach with your stats. It's number 1 on my list for exactly the same reason: there are 20 interview slots and tons of people want it.



OK, I hear you on Sheppard, Latham, and Paul Hastings.

Doesn't OMM only hire out of the top 25% or so of classes?

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:32 pm

(1) Grade cutoffs are largely meaningless.
(2) OMM has dipped lower. Maybe not at USC or UCLA, but they have large class sizes (or have in the past) and are worth putting higher (although maybe not super high if you're unsure, or if you're worried about the financial state of the firm).

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Revised bid list. 6 H's at Harvard. Want litigation in SoCal. All firms are LA except 1 (some firms have offices in both SD and LA or Century City and LA and if that is the case I am applying to both). List is sorted by some combination of class size on NALPDirectory, number of interview slots, historical callback and offer rates, and "places I'd like to work." I am mostly not bothering with places that had 1 or 2 summers or places that were virtually all transactional.

1. MoFo (SD/LA) (20)
2. Paul Hastings (SD/LA) (20)
3. Shepard Mullin (CC/LA) (20)
4. Winston & Strawn (20)
5. Sidley Austin (20)
6. Quinn Emanuel (30)
7. Gibson Dunn (40)
8. Kirkland (36)
9. Latham (SD/LA) (32)
10. Irell (52)
11. Cooley (SD) (20)
12. Bingham (20)
13. Jenner (20)
14. Jones Day (20)
15. Mitchell Silberberg (20)
16. Mayer Brown (20)
17. Akin Gump (20
18. WilmerHale (20)
19. McDermott (20)
20. Pillsbury (20)
21. Orrick (20)
22. Proskauer (20)
23. O'Melveny (CC/LA) (40)
24. Skadden (40)
25. Baker & Hoestetler (40)
26. Foley & Lardner (62)
27. Goodwin Procter (20)

Mailings so far: Manatt; Reed Smith; Stroock; Loeb & Loeb. Planning on getting Morgan Lewis out ASAP and Allen Matkins/McKenna Long out in early August (as their websites instruct). Most other places do virtually no litigation or are just bad places to work.

You should probably have Munger Tolles in there somewhere. There are very selective but you seem to have the grades for it. Very well-respected firm in LA, the one downside being that last year they only offered 11/14 summers.

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thesealocust
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:32 pm

blowhard wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
blowhard wrote:So, if you had 30 bids at Michigan and wanted to bid mainly DC with some bids in NYC as a precaution. Would you bid like:

safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (DC)
safety (NYC)
safety (NYC)
safety (NYC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (DC)
Target (NYC)
Target (NYC)
Target (NYC)
Reach (DC)
etc?

Or bid all DC then NYC firms?

Trying to figure out a good strategy... A little concerned I may not get interviews at all with the firms I really want but whose median GPA is a bit higher than mine.


There are no safety firms anywhere, and there is nothing even bordering on vaguely resembling a safety (big law) firm in DC. Even people with great grades get way fewer interviews and CBs looking at DC than other markets.


I mean as much of a safety as they can be...median GPA's >.3 under mine.


That doesn't make them easier to get. They probably hire 20 or so people for the summer, right? There are 5,000 law students or so in the top 14, what percent do you think are looking at DC? I realize it's semantics, but it's an important point: Having better grades than a firm usually hires still leaves any given firm a relative long shot. It's a jungle out there. You may well have better odds at firms that are more selective as fewer people will be beating down the doors trying to get in.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?


Cleveland? Richmond? Denver?

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:52 pm

Top 5%, T2 --> M (transfer). Corp. preference, WE. NY only. Missing anything? Willing to take off some of the bottom super-competitive firms if I'm leaving something out.

1. Schulte Roth
2. Dewey
3. Milbank
4. Fried Frank
5. White & Case
6. Ropes
7. Kramer Levin
8. Proskauer
9. Weil
10. Cadwalader
11. Sidley Austin
12. Linklaters
13. Paul Hastings
14. Kasowitz Benson
15. Dechert
16. Clifford Chance
17. Chadbourne & Parke
18. Morgan Lewis
19. Jones Day
20. Allen & Overy
21. Shearman & Sterling
22. Willkie
23. Seward & Kissel
24. Latham
25. GDC
26. STB
27. Paul Weiss
28. Debevoise
29. DPW
30. Skadden
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:58 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?


Cleveland? Richmond? Denver?


Dallas? Milwaukee? Atlanta? Detroit? St. Louis? Minneapolis? Winstom-Salem (huge for Duke Law grads)?

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ndirish2010
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:02 pm

Indianapolis.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:08 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?


Cleveland? Richmond? Denver?


Dallas? Milwaukee? Atlanta? Detroit? St. Louis? Minneapolis? Winstom-Salem (huge for Duke Law grads)?


Birmingham has a huge legal market.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Birmingham has a huge legal market.


I feel like the word huge means different things to the both of us.

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quakeroats
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby quakeroats » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:27 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?


Cleveland? Richmond? Denver?


Dallas? Milwaukee? Atlanta? Detroit? St. Louis? Minneapolis? Winstom-Salem (huge for Duke Law grads)?


We have zero 2Ls in Winston-Salem. Quite a few in Raleigh and Charlotte though.

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JetstoRJC
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby JetstoRJC » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:37 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?


Cleveland? Richmond? Denver?


Dallas? Milwaukee? Atlanta? Detroit? St. Louis? Minneapolis? Winstom-Salem (huge for Duke Law grads)?


We have zero 2Ls in Winston-Salem. Quite a few in Raleigh and Charlotte though.


That didn't take long

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quakeroats
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby quakeroats » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:04 am

JetstoRJC wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Incredibly stupid question, BUT...


What is an example of a SECONDARY MARKET?

If DC, NYC, LA, CHI are Primary, is Boston a Sec? Philadelphia? Houston?

Cleveland? Richmond? Denver?


Dallas? Milwaukee? Atlanta? Detroit? St. Louis? Minneapolis? Winstom-Salem (huge for Duke Law grads)?


We have zero 2Ls in Winston-Salem. Quite a few in Raleigh and Charlotte though.


That didn't take long


Don't worry, I'm sure to be the victim of another banhammer hissy fit any minute now.




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