Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

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GeePee
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby GeePee » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:21 pm

Does Patterson Belknap come to your OCI? Also Proskauer and Cadwalader, barring some outside reason, have really no place on a top 5% + LR bidlist IMO.

As far as ordering, Cravath seems pretty high on that list to me. Do that many people really bid them?

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:24 pm

GeePee wrote:Does Patterson Belknap come to your OCI? Also Proskauer and Cadwalader, barring some outside reason, have really no place on a top 5% + LR bidlist IMO.

As far as ordering, Cravath seems pretty high on that list to me. Do that many people really bid them?


Yeah Patterson comes. Better bid then? I guess I put Cravath up high cuz I really want an interview, but maybe it's over conservative. Any other advice on what to replace Proskauer / Cadwalader with in addition to Patterson?

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:27 pm

One of the many below median CLS students lurking around here. 3.12:


1. Proskauer Rose
2. Jones Day
3. Schulte Roth & Zabel
4. Stroock Stroock & Lavan
5. Sidley Austin
6. Latham & Watkins
7. Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft
8. Linklaters
9. White & Case
10. Paul Hastings
11. MoFo
12. Hughes Hubbard & Reed
13. Dechert
14. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy
15. Akin Gump
16. Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel
17. Vinson & Elkins
18. Ropes & Gray
19. Clifford Chance
20. Willkie Farr
21. Brown Rudnick
22. Chadbourne & Parke
23. Winston & Strawn
24. O’Melveny
25. Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson
26. Pillsbury
27. Mayer
28. Patterson Bellknapp
29. Cahill Gordon & Reindel
30. Dewey & LeBouef

imchuckbass58
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn


Drop Cleary DC, you stand almost no shot. Agree with the other poster that Cleary NY, Weil and Kirkland are reaches, but you may get lucky. Don't bid them so high though.

S&C is absolutely out of the question (they have a rep for hiring almost purely on grades). Skadden would be good to throw in though.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What Vault range is not overly conservative and not overly aggressive for someone who is top 33%-40% at Berkeley and is bidding SF and LA?


Preferably answered by thesalocust.


Well, the truth of it is that's not how vault ranges work. There are firms near the top you might have a shot at, but the firms 'lower' in the vault rankings are hardly uniformly less selective. They tend to get smaller, higher smaller summer classes, etc. I'm afraid there's no good answer to this question, and certainly no answer the forum could spit out that your career services office and data about firm hiring wouldn't be better at. I might be able to eyeball a list, but nobody could intelligently just spit out a vault range.


This is what I have. Litigation. All offices are SF if not noted otherwise. Basically just organized with anticipated number of 2012 SAs up top, because all of these firms have about 20-40 interviews and 100+ people bid on most of them last year. MoFo, Gibson Dunn, Hogan Lovells and Baker Hostetler left out because I am bidding them in a secondary market. Left off top vault firms generally because I thought they would be selective (K&E, Quinn Emmanuel, etc.). Not sure if that was a mistake. Also left off stuff like Keker because I heard it was terribly selective. Any help would be appreciated.


1 Reed Smith
2 Morgan Lewis
3 Orrick Herrington
4 Akin Gump (L.A.)
5 Farella Braun + Martel
6 Winston Strawn
7 Bingham McCutchen
8 Manatt Phelps
9 Jones Day
10 Sheppard Mullin
11 Holland Knight
12 Nixon Peabody
13 Schiff Hardin
14 Foley & Lardner
15 Mayer Brown
16 Goodwin Procter
17 Jenner & Block (L.A.)
18 Rutan & Tucker (L.A)
19 Milbank Tweed (L.A.)


Any advice?

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:40 pm

Doesn't scream fail, but LA is so far from my forte that I don't have much insight. For other markets I can usually think of class size, selectivity, etc. off the top of my head, but I know fuck-all about LA.

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Kronk
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Kronk » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:48 pm

.
Last edited by Kronk on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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UnitarySpace
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby UnitarySpace » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:50 pm

Hello world.
Last edited by UnitarySpace on Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Bronte
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Bronte » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:52 pm

UnitarySpace wrote:did you mean to make that anonymous?


I'll preempt him here and suggest you edit to remove his handle. Knowing from experience how easy it is to press the wrong button lol.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby GeePee » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
GeePee wrote:Does Patterson Belknap come to your OCI? Also Proskauer and Cadwalader, barring some outside reason, have really no place on a top 5% + LR bidlist IMO.

As far as ordering, Cravath seems pretty high on that list to me. Do that many people really bid them?


Yeah Patterson comes. Better bid then? I guess I put Cravath up high cuz I really want an interview, but maybe it's over conservative. Any other advice on what to replace Proskauer / Cadwalader with in addition to Patterson?

It might be personal preference, but I'd much rather work someplace like Akin Gump or MoFo, if it turns out you value firm culture over prestige. If you really want Cravath, I'd leave them. If you're indifferent, I'd move them down.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby seriouslyinformative » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:00 pm

Akin Gump or MoFo, if it turns out you value firm culture over prestige


I understand the preference for lower hours, but Akin Gump will give you terrible job security. I don't know where you're gathering the notion that taking a job at Akin is in any way better for someone than taking a job with Cravath. MoFo also isn't doing super hot, but they aren't nearly as bad as Akin, so I can let that slide.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:03 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Akin Gump or MoFo, if it turns out you value firm culture over prestige


I understand the preference for lower hours, but Akin Gump will give you terrible job security. I don't know where you're gathering the notion that taking a job at Akin is in any way better for someone than taking a job with Cravath. MoFo also isn't doing super hot, but they aren't nearly as bad as Akin, so I can let that slide.


I think he's referring to replacing Proskauer and Cadwalader with Patterson, Akin, or Mofo, not replacing Cravath. He was just talking about moving Cravath down on the bid list a bit in terms of bidding strategy.

Looks like two other firms on my list aren't coming to OCI. Any thoughts on what to replace Proskaur, Cadwadlader, Boies, and Covington NY with. I'll repost, anon this time:

Top 5% at MVP, law review. Want litigation.

1 Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison NY
2 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton NY
3 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett NY
4 Weil Gotshal & Manges NY
5 Cravath Swaine & Moore NY
6 Shearman & Sterling NY
7 White & Case NY
8 Debevoise & Plimpton NY
9 Skadden Arps Slate Maegher & Flom NY
10 Davis Polk & Wardell NY
11 Sullivan & Cromwell NY
12 Jenner & Block Chi.
13 Kirkland & Ellis Chi.
14 Sidley Austin Chi.
15 Latham & Watkins NY
16 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan NY
17 Dewey & LeBoeuf NY
18 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson NY
19 Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy NY
20 Boies, Schiller & Flexner NY
21 Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft NY
22 Proskauer Rose NY
23 Willkie Farr & Gallagher NY
24 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher NY
25 Covington & Burling NY
26 Ropes & Gray NY
27 [Home Market, Tertiary]
28 [Home Market, Tertiary]
29 [Home Market, Tertiary]
30 [Home Market, Tertiary]

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby GeePee » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:05 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Akin Gump or MoFo, if it turns out you value firm culture over prestige


I understand the preference for lower hours, but Akin Gump will give you terrible job security. I don't know where you're gathering the notion that taking a job at Akin is in any way better for someone than taking a job with Cravath. MoFo also isn't doing super hot, but they aren't nearly as bad as Akin, so I can let that slide.

You're putting up a straw man. I'm in no way saying that you should take Akin over Cravath. I wouldn't do it, and I would never advocate for someone else to make that choice. I'm saying that for the purposes of picking lower end interviews on a top 5% + LR at MVP bidlist, I would much rather pick Akin Gump and MoFo instead of Cadwalader and Proskauer Rose. I even prefaced it by saying that my bias may be due entirely to personal preference. I can see why, in the context of only that snippet that you quoted, that you could take that meaning from what I said, but that's not really what I was getting at all.

Could OP fill those last two bids with Williams & Connolly or Keker & Van Nest without significantly impacting his job prospects? Absolutely, but OP seemed to purposefully keep to NY, Chicago and a small market. So, I was just picking firms similar in kind, but that I think would be better choices.

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Kronk
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Kronk » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:07 pm

How do you guys know about the economic state of all these firms? ATL? Or is there a resource I'm not using?

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby seriouslyinformative » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:08 pm

Kronk wrote:How do you guys know about the economic state of all these firms? ATL? Or is there a resource I'm not using?


WACF

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:09 pm

Kronk wrote:How do you guys know about the economic state of all these firms? ATL? Or is there a resource I'm not using?


Reading every post on ATL for a few years helps. Quickly scanning layoff news, summer class size news, PPP / RPL tables over time, etc. can somewhat get you up to speed.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:12 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Kronk wrote:How do you guys know about the economic state of all these firms? ATL? Or is there a resource I'm not using?


Reading every post on ATL for a few years helps. Quickly scanning layoff news, summer class size news, PPP / RPL tables over time, etc. can somewhat get you up to speed.


Would you glance at the bid list posted anon at 7:03 pm a few posts above please? Especially with regard to the question about replacing firms. Thanks.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kronk
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Kronk » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:13 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Kronk wrote:How do you guys know about the economic state of all these firms? ATL? Or is there a resource I'm not using?


Reading every post on ATL for a few years helps. Quickly scanning layoff news, summer class size news, PPP / RPL tables over time, etc. can somewhat get you up to speed.


Thanks.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Around top 15%ish at MVP. Secondary journal. Looking for NY transactional, mostly.

1. Cleary
2. Debevoise
3. Fried Frank
4. Shearman
5. Dewey & LeBoeuf
6. Ropes & Gray
7. Simpson Thacher
8. Wilkie Farr
9. Milbank Tweed
10. Sidley Austin
11. Gibson Dunn
12. Latham
13. White & Case
14. Proskauer
15. Allen & Overy
16. Cahill (realize they are primarily capital markets)
17. Akin Gump
18. Jones Day
19. Kirkland & Ellis
20. Weil


I don't go to MVP, but assuming prospects there are similar to CLS (or slightly worse), I think you can be a bit more aggressive. For instance, you could probably drop places like White & Case, Proskauer, A&O, and Fried Frank, and substitute places like DPW, Skadden, maybe even Cravath.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:26 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Around top 15%ish at MVP. Secondary journal. Looking for NY transactional, mostly.

1. Cleary
2. Debevoise
3. Fried Frank
4. Shearman
5. Dewey & LeBoeuf
6. Ropes & Gray
7. Simpson Thacher
8. Wilkie Farr
9. Milbank Tweed
10. Sidley Austin
11. Gibson Dunn
12. Latham
13. White & Case
14. Proskauer
15. Allen & Overy
16. Cahill (realize they are primarily capital markets)
17. Akin Gump
18. Jones Day
19. Kirkland & Ellis
20. Weil


I don't go to MVP, but assuming prospects there are similar to CLS (or slightly worse), I think you can be a bit more aggressive. For instance, you could probably drop places like White & Case, Proskauer, A&O, and Fried Frank, and substitute places like DPW, Skadden, maybe even Cravath.


Thanks. I've heard that from a few people. I'm at UVA, so 70% of the interview slots are pre-selects and we get 50 bids. I had shuffled down DPW, Skadden, SullCrom down further, on the idea that since they have larger summer classes and are interviewing more people at UVA than some of the other firms you mentioned, it might make sense to drop some of the bigger firms down a bit. What are your thoughts? I'm open to change.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:28 pm

MVP, slightly above top 10%, secondary journal, interested in DC litigation - thoughts on top-25? Any great DC lit firms I missed, or does anything just look very off? I'm tired of reading about firms...

1. Williams & Connolly
2. Covington
3. WilmerHale
4. Arnold & Porter
5. Kirkland & Ellis
6. Gibson Dunn
7. Jones Day
8. Hogan
9. Latham
10. Paul Weiss
11. Akin Gump
12. Cleary Gottlieb
13. Paul Hastings
14. Sidley Austin
15. Crowell & Moring
16. Milbank
17. Orrick
18. Goodwin Procter
19. Weil Gotshal
20. Patton Boggs
21. Bingham
22. Morrison Foerster
23. Skadden
24. Ropes & Gray
25. Steptoe & Johnson

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:45 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Above the median but below Stone at CLS (somehwere between 3.38 and 3.39), with a strong upward trend (about .3 better second semester than first). Know what practice areas I like, and which firms are good for them, but don't know much about selectivity. Are there any I should consider adding? Any I wouldn't have any chance at? Here's the preliminary list, in order. Would I have any shot at, say, Skadden or Sullivan & Cromwell or Gibson Dunn? Thanks!

Cleary Gottlieb NY
Cleary Gottlieb DC
Weil Gottshall
Kirkland & Ellis
White & Case
Shearman & Sterling
Latham Watkins
Baker McKenzie
Jones Day
Ropes & Gray
Paul Hastings
Linklaters
Allen & Overy
Millbank Tweed
Clifford Chance
Fried Frank
Dewey Lebouef
Wikie Farr
Orrick Herrington
Proskauer Rose
Akin Gump
Cadwalader
Dechert
K&L Gates
Bryan Cave
Schulte Roth
Chadbourne & Parke
Bracewell Giuliani
Hughes Hubbard
Winston & Strawn


Drop Cleary DC, you stand almost no shot. Agree with the other poster that Cleary NY, Weil and Kirkland are reaches, but you may get lucky. Don't bid them so high though.

S&C is absolutely out of the question (they have a rep for hiring almost purely on grades). Skadden would be good to throw in though.


Thanks, this is helpful. Would Gibson Dunn be a huge reach? And do you think I've got a decent shot at places like White & Case, Shearman or Latham? Any others you might recommend throwing in?

imchuckbass58
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thanks, this is helpful. Would Gibson Dunn be a huge reach? And do you think I've got a decent shot at places like White & Case, Shearman or Latham? Any others you might recommend throwing in?


GDC NY is not a huge reach. GDC DC is.

You have a decent shot at pretty much everywhere else on your list, to varying degrees.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby imchuckbass58 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thanks. I've heard that from a few people. I'm at UVA, so 70% of the interview slots are pre-selects and we get 50 bids. I had shuffled down DPW, Skadden, SullCrom down further, on the idea that since they have larger summer classes and are interviewing more people at UVA than some of the other firms you mentioned, it might make sense to drop some of the bigger firms down a bit. What are your thoughts? I'm open to change.


I don't really know about bidding strategy at UVA. But I would make sure you don't drop DPW or Skadden so low that you risk not getting an interview, because you very well could get an offer. That said, you'll probably be preselected by most firms with big interview schedules.

Anonymous User
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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:50 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:I don't really know about bidding strategy at UVA.


That makes two of us. Thanks for the advice, though.




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