Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:02 pm

If you interview well, aim high.

I am at HLS. I have an LP. I am not on law review, and am only a tiny part of a secondary journal. I scored at least one callback at a firm that "requires" top 25% and journal. Granted, I did not get an offer from them, but if I had listened to what OCS told me or others told me, I should not have even bothered trying.

Only one firmed even bothered to ask about the LP. I told them I just didn't do my best work, learned from it, and moved on. They said good enough. I received an offer from them.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:22 pm

thesealocust wrote:Of course. There aren't many people with over a 3.8, and no firm draws meaningful distinctions at that level. The most selective firms in the country routinely hire people from T10 with well under 3.8x GPAs. Quinn and Boies aren't nearly selective enough to demand those kinds of credentials, much less those kinds of credentials or better.


Just to follow up on sealocust's sage advice: There are a lot of firms that do very, very high end litigation - Kirkland, Cravath, Gibson Dunn, etc., etc.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:26 pm

thesealocust wrote:[FN1] Well, if you're at Northwestern nevermind, a 3.8 would be like bottom third and you would be screwed.


LOLOLOLOL. This needed to be acknowledged.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:32 pm

bjsesq wrote:
thesealocust wrote:[FN1] Well, if you're at Northwestern nevermind, a 3.8 would be like bottom third and you would be screwed.


LOLOLOLOL. This needed to be acknowledged.


You must be new here. Making fun of NU's curve in the employment forum is sort of like picwhoring in the lounge, it's how we pass the time.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:34 pm

BU/BC
Top 15%

1. Ropes & Gray, Boston
2. Foley Hoag, Boston
3. Wilmer Hale, Boston
4. Goodwin Procter, Boston
5. Brown Rudnick, Boston
6. Nutter McClennen, Boston
7. Ropes & Gray, NY
8. Cadwalader, NY
9. Skadden Arps, Boston
10. Weil Gotshal & Manges, Boston
11. Bingham McCutchen, Boston
12. Edward Angell Palmer Dodge, Boston
13. Arnold Porter, NY
14. Sullivan Worcester, Boston
15. McDermott, Boston
16. Choate Hall, Boston
17. Mintz Levin, Boston
18. Epstein, Becker, Green, DC
19. Foley Lardner, Boston
20. KL Gates, Boston
21. Cooley LLP, Boston
22. Jones Day, Boston
23. Skadden Arps, Boston
24. Dechert, Boston
25. Proskauer Rose, Boston
26. Nixon Peabody, Boston
27. Hahn Hessen, NY
28. Holland and Knight, Boston
29. Goulston Storrs, Boston

I may have over-valued summer class size in the ranking, which was pretty disparate in the Boston firms, since few firms have classes over 20. I plan on doing off-campus bidding for additional NY firms along with targeted mailings. It's 70% pre-select and only 30% lottery, so my rank doesn't matter much. There are more bids than there are firms I want.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:35 pm

thesealocust wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
thesealocust wrote:[FN1] Well, if you're at Northwestern nevermind, a 3.8 would be like bottom third and you would be screwed.


LOLOLOLOL. This needed to be acknowledged.


You must be new here. Making fun of NU's curve in the employment forum is sort of like picwhoring in the lounge, it's how we pass the time.


Naw, son. I've been around. It was a good crack, and I wanted to show the love.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:37 pm

PSA to people in this thread: I and am sure several others are scanning the lists as they get posted. For the most part it's hard to screw these things up or fine tune them, so take it as a low level endorsement if you get no response.

BJS: awww thanks :oops:

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby vamedic03 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:BU/BC
Top 15%

1. Ropes & Gray, Boston
2. Foley Hoag, Boston
3. Wilmer Hale, Boston
4. Goodwin Procter, Boston
5. Brown Rudnick, Boston
6. Nutter McClennen, Boston
7. Ropes & Gray, NY
8. Cadwalader, NY
9. Skadden Arps, Boston
10. Weil Gotshal & Manges, Boston
11. Bingham McCutchen, Boston
12. Edward Angell Palmer Dodge, Boston
13. Arnold Porter, NY
14. Sullivan Worcester, Boston
15. McDermott, Boston
16. Choate Hall, Boston
17. Mintz Levin, Boston
18. Epstein, Becker, Green, DC
19. Foley Lardner, Boston
20. KL Gates, Boston
21. Cooley LLP, Boston
22. Jones Day, Boston
23. Skadden Arps, Boston
24. Dechert, Boston
25. Proskauer Rose, Boston
26. Nixon Peabody, Boston
27. Hahn Hessen, NY
28. Holland and Knight, Boston
29. Goulston Storrs, Boston

I may have over-valued summer class size in the ranking, which was pretty disparate in the Boston firms, since few firms have classes over 20. I plan on doing off-campus bidding for additional NY firms along with targeted mailings. It's 70% pre-select and only 30% lottery, so my rank doesn't matter much. There are more bids than there are firms I want.


Epstein Becker DC seems out of place.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:44 pm

BU/BC 15%:

DC & FL are my choice secondary markets after Boston. Very few of them are participating in our main OCI. I plan on targeting the DC firms through mass mailing, same with the Florida firms. I wish there were more, but, eh. . . Boston is my first choice so I really can't complain about the percentage of Boston firms.

Side note: Cravath wants a cover letter for our NYC satellite session. WTF do I right? "Dear Cravath, you shit rainbows and winning lottery tickets, please caress me with your Midas touch?"

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:47 pm

I wouldn't bother applying to Cravath with your stats. It's not because your a bad person or incapable of handling their PREFTIGIOUS work, but they have a very clear "absolute top of the class" bent when it comes to schools outside of the usual feeder suspects (T6 + a few more).

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:51 pm

thesealocust wrote:I wouldn't bother applying to Cravath with your stats. It's not because your a bad person or incapable of handling their PREFTIGIOUS work, but they have a very clear "absolute top of the class" bent when it comes to schools outside of the usual feeder suspects (T6 + a few more).



Unlimited bids to the NY Satellite event, so its like, why the hell not? But agreed, Cravath and the Skadden bids are probably wasted. But I think the rest are spot on. Also, primary interest is Labor & Employment, and in particular, Federal Employment Discrimination Litigation.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:52 pm

Here's a legit question: I (likely) want to do litigation. How the fuck do I tell people what type of litigation I want to do when I have no idea? I have no professional background, so what the hell would I know about it?

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Cupidity » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:54 pm

bjsesq wrote:Here's a legit question: I (likely) want to do litigation. How the fuck do I tell people what type of litigation I want to do when I have no idea? I have no professional background, so what the hell would I know about it?


What are you doing this summer? What did you like during 1L?

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:55 pm

Cupidity wrote:
bjsesq wrote:Here's a legit question: I (likely) want to do litigation. How the fuck do I tell people what type of litigation I want to do when I have no idea? I have no professional background, so what the hell would I know about it?


What are you doing this summer? What did you like during 1L?


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: PD. Crim, Con law, evidence.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:56 pm

bjsesq wrote:Here's a legit question: I (likely) want to do litigation. How the fuck do I tell people what type of litigation I want to do when I have no idea? I have no professional background, so what the hell would I know about it?


You don't need to know, and firms won't ask. You'll litigate what they tell you to litigate and you'll like it. The only large differences are traditional biglaw (corporations beating the shit out of each other plus defending against shareholder / whistleblower / government action) vs. more plaintiff's oriented work (shareholder / whistleblowers / the government beating the shit out of corporations). The latter is the province of more specialized firms for the most part, so it will help to articulate why you want to be a QUINN EMANUEL: TRIAL LAWYER instead of a NAME AND AMPERSAND: DOC REVIEW DEFENDER. But other than that there will be no expectation that you have narrow interests. Ask about what they do and sound enthusiastic when they tell you, but you don't need to be dissing white collar and talking about how you wake up in the morning for superfund disputes.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:56 pm

thesealocust wrote:I wouldn't bother applying to Cravath with your stats. It's not because your a bad person or incapable of handling their PREFTIGIOUS work, but they have a very clear "absolute top of the class" bent when it comes to schools outside of the usual feeder suspects (T6 + a few more).


I'm top 10% at a T25 and I'm def bidding on both Cravath and SullCrom. I probably don't have much of a chance, but its always worth a shot, especially since we can bid as much as we want on our off-campus NYC program. I had the chance to meet some associates from my law school at those firms and got pretty friendly with them, so perhaps I can get something going. Long shot, but worth trying.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:58 pm

thesealocust wrote:
bjsesq wrote:Here's a legit question: I (likely) want to do litigation. How the fuck do I tell people what type of litigation I want to do when I have no idea? I have no professional background, so what the hell would I know about it?


You don't need to know, and firms won't ask. You'll litigate what they tell you to litigate and you'll like it. The only large differences are traditional biglaw (corporations beating the shit out of each other plus defending against shareholder / whistleblower / government action) vs. more plaintiff's oriented work (shareholder / whistleblowers / the government beating the shit out of corporations). The latter is the province of more specialized firms for the most part, so it will help to articulate why you want to be a QUINN EMANUEL: TRIAL LAWYER instead of a NAME AND AMPERSAND: DOC REVIEW DEFENDER. But other than that there will be no expectation that you have narrow interests. Ask about what they do and sound enthusiastic when they tell you, but you don't need to be dissing white collar and talking about how you wake up in the morning for superfund disputes.


Sweet. *HIGH FIVE, DIRK BROWITZSKI*

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Vronsky » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:03 am

Aiming for NYC offices only. Somewhat unsure how to make a bid list in part because I'm considering transferring to T14. Top 1% from T2 school in the area, so I'm hoping firms will be familiar. Still trying to build the list, but how is this for a start:

1. Kirkland
2. Cleary
3. Linklaters
4. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
6. Simpson Thacher
7. Debevoise
8. Latham***
9. Gibson Dunn
10. Boies Schiller
11. Shearman***
12. Ropes Gray***
13. Jones Day
14. Cravath***
15. SullCrom
16. Skadden


I'm aiming for firms that have balanced lit/corp departments, mostly lit, and mostly corporate. Some are NYC based while others are from CA, Boston, and London. Tried to order based on (1) prestige (2) class size (3) perks and benefits (4) cool sounding programs/practices.

Any advice? *** indicates that I could get an interview with the firm at current T2 w/o transferring.
Last edited by Vronsky on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:04 am

You may be aiming a bit high. I don't think any of those are realistic, but you seem to have many more of the biggest/baddest NYC firms than you do strong but not gangbusters/headline NYC firms. Transfers often have weird cycles, I think you would likely benefit from mixing it up a bit more, even if you'll be in the running everywhere (as I suspect you will).

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Vronsky » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:17 am

when you say biggest/baddest do you mean badass or bad? I figured with a stellar ranking from a NYC area school + transfer into T10 + decent interview skills, I was being reasonably aggressive.

I'm trying to maximize chances by aiming for selective firms with the biggest classes high. also i heard they are underbid. Could I use the remaining bids on V50ish firms? Or bid V25-V75 firms higher? how to be more conservative or mix it up?

also wondering if i should aim for any smaller NY firms. lit boutiques? plaintiff's firms?

ETA - i could remove cravath/skadden/sullcrom. i dont think i want to work like that.
Last edited by Vronsky on Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:20 am

Are any of your firms even below V20 or so? I mean those firms are big and that's good, but you need some diversity. They hire a lot of people and can be relatively easy to get an interview with but don't make that for relatively easy to get a job with, they're still absurdly selective. Transfer OCI is wonky as hell so I don't know that I have The Answer, I just think you're reckless ignoring the still quite large but less prestigious firms in NYC (vault range whatever, big'uns that aren't those).

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Vronsky » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:25 am

other big classes i know of with classes of 25+

Milbank
Cahill
White Case
Fried Frank
Schulte
Cadwalder
Sidley
Allen Overy

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:26 am

All firms it'd likely be smart to work onto your bidlist, IMO. Not that you should toss out the old one, it'd just be smart to have a broader mix (IMO).

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:33 am

Top 10-15% midwest T25

First session (Chicago unless noted)

1. Jenner & Block
2. Jones Day
3. Winston & Strawn
4. Sidley Austin
5. Taft (Indianapolis)
6. Varnum (Grand Rapids)
7. McDermott Will & Emery
8. McGuireWoods
9. Dykema (Grand Rapids)
10. Vedder Price
11. Ungaretti & Harris
12. Paul Hastings
13. Rhodes McKee (Grand Rapids)
14. Mika Meyers Beckett & Jones (Grand Rapids)

Second Session

1. Baker & Daniels (Indianapolis)
2. Barnes & Thornburg (Indianapolis)
3. Honigman Miller Schwartz & Cohn (Detroit)
4. Frost Brown Todd (Indianapolis)
5. Kirkland
6. Dickinson Wright (Detroit)
7. Drinker Biddle & Reath
8. Bryan Cave
9. K&L Gates

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Re: Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats

Postby Vronsky » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:35 am

Second attempt:

1. Kirkland
2. Cleary
3. Linklaters
4. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
6. Latham
7. Shearman
8. Milbank
9. Cahill
10. Ropes Gray
11. White & Case
12. Fried Frank
13. Schulte
14. Simpson Thacher
15. Debevoise
16. Gibson Dunn
17. Boies Schiller
18. Jones Day
19. Cravath
20. SullCrom
21. Skadden
22. Sidley Austin
23. Paul Hastings
24. Kasowitz Benson
25. Jones Day
26. Dewey


Is that more balanced? Throw out any NYC offices i'm overlooking. the ones i've tried to leave off generally are super small/selective/or stinky.




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