Post Your Bidlists Here for Critique, Consolation & Caveats Forum

[thesealocust]

I'd endorse that bidlist given a cursory glance.

[vamedic03]

Second attempt:

1. Kirkland
2. Cleary
3. Linklaters
4. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
6. Latham
7. Shearman
8. Milbank
9. Cahill
10. Ropes Gray
11. White & Case
12. Fried Frank
13. Schulte
14. Simpson Thacher
15. Debevoise
16. Gibson Dunn
17. Boies Schiller
18. Jones Day
19. Cravath
20. SullCrom
21. Skadden
22. Sidley Austin
23. Paul Hastings
24. Kasowitz Benson
25. Jones Day
26. Dewey


Is that more balanced? Throw out any NYC offices i'm overlooking. the ones i've tried to leave off generally are super small/selective/or stinky.

Weil?

[Cupidity]

Weil is pretty selective.

[Anonymous User]

Top 5% MVP. Want litigation. Doing a little bid-rigging right now, but could be talked out of it.

1 Paul Weiss Rifkind Wharton & Garrison NY
2 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton NY
3 Simpson Thacher & Bartlett NY
4 Weil Gotshal & Manges NY
5 Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy NY
6 Shearman & Sterling NY
7 White & Case NY
8 Debevoise & Plimpton NY
9 Skadden Arps Slate Maegher & Flom NY
10 Davis Polk & Wardell NY
11 Cravath Swaine & Moore NY
12 Sullivan & Cromwell NY
13 Kirkland & Ellis Chi.
14 Jenner & Block Chi.
15 Sidley Austin Chi.
16 Latham & Watkins NY
17 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson NY
18 Dewey & LeBoeuf NY
19 Cadwalader Wickersham & Taft NY
20 Proskauer Rose NY
21 Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan NY
22 Jones Day NY
23 Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe NY
24 Paul Hastings Janofsky & Walker NY
25 Willkie Farr & Gallagher NY
26 O'Melveny & Myers NY
27 Ropes & Gray NY
28 Gibson Dunn & Crutcher NY
29 Boies, Schiller & Flexner NY
30 Covington & Burling NY

[thesealocust]

Bid Quinn, Boies, and Cravath higher. Double check the size of the litigation depts at all those firms on the NALP directory so that you know the position of lit relative to the firm everywhere you bid. Look into that firm everyone forgets because it has a low vault ranking but actually rocks... kasowitz benson? or something. Maybe not that one. Patterson belkamp? One of those, you'll figure it out if you look for it.

[Anonymous User]

Bid Quinn, Boies, and Cravath higher. Double check the size of the litigation depts at all those firms on the NALP directory so that you know the position of lit relative to the firm everywhere you bid. Look into that firm everyone forgets because it has a low vault ranking but actually rocks... kasowitz benson? or something. Maybe not that one. Patterson belkamp? One of those, you'll figure it out if you look for it.

Thanks. I've definitely done the litigation department size thing. White and Shearman both have smaller litigation departments, but I like them in there as safeties since they recruit heavily from my school at lower GPAs. I like Boies, but they've taken a very low volume of students from my school and have small SA classes in general. They're also high GPA, low offer count, so I don't think they'll be heavily bid. I'll move them up a bit though. Quinn has also been a little over-choosy about students at my school, but I'll move them up some. I'll put Cravath after Weil and make sure to pronounce it right.

As to the firm with low ranking that actually rocks, is this a joke you play on people to get them to comb through the Vault rankings? Lol, I'll take a look.

EDIT: Kasowitz, Benson, Torres & Friedman is unranked by Vault but is ranked in "General Commercial: Highly Regarded: Band 1" (could they come up with a more cumbersome system?) by Chambers & Partners. Could this be the firm you're referring to? Kaye Scholer is also ranked "General Commercial: Elite: Band 4" by Chambers and is only Vault 67. Patterson Belknap Webb & Tyler is ranked 90 by Vault but is surprisingly selective at my school. They're unranked by Chambers. All three firms unfortunately have fairly low offer counts at my school. Maybe I'll put them in place of a few throwaways though.

[Vronsky]

Second attempt:

1. Kirkland
2. Cleary
3. Linklaters
4. Paul Weiss
5. Davis Polk
6. Latham
7. Shearman
8. Milbank
9. Cahill
10. Ropes Gray
11. White & Case
12. Fried Frank
13. Schulte
14. Simpson Thacher
15. Debevoise
16. Gibson Dunn
17. Boies Schiller
18. Jones Day
19. Cravath
20. SullCrom
21. Skadden
22. Sidley Austin
23. Paul Hastings
24. Kasowitz Benson
25. Jones Day
26. Dewey


Is that more balanced? Throw out any NYC offices i'm overlooking. the ones i've tried to leave off generally are super small/selective/or stinky.

Weil?

I was thinking of no bidding Weil given (1) its selectivity and (2) this from ATL:

The start date for Class of 2009 associates was deferred to January 2010, and start date for Class of 2010 associates was deferred to January 2011. The firm also offered a $75,000 stipend to new associates in both classes who opted to work for a firm-approved public interest organization for one year. Weil anticipates delaying the start date for the incoming Class of 2011 as well.

[Anonymous User]

Of course. There aren't many people with over a 3.8, and no firm draws meaningful distinctions at that level. The most selective firms in the country routinely hire people from T10 with well under 3.8x GPAs. Quinn and Boies aren't nearly selective enough to demand those kinds of credentials, much less those kinds of credentials or better.

Just to follow up on sealocust's sage advice: There are a lot of firms that do very, very high end litigation - Kirkland, Cravath, Gibson Dunn, etc., etc.

3.8x T10 here -- I interviewed with one of those firms during my 1L job search - applied through my school's website and they gave me a callback without a screening interview. They said there was no room for me that summer but to skip OCI and arrange a callback this year. I feel like it might be weird to see all the same people again after not getting an offer (at least the hiring partners will be the same) and my not-as-great second semester, but I also don't want to miss an opportunity. I guess there's not much to lose, though. Would you follow up?

[thesealocust]

Of course. There aren't many people with over a 3.8, and no firm draws meaningful distinctions at that level. The most selective firms in the country routinely hire people from T10 with well under 3.8x GPAs. Quinn and Boies aren't nearly selective enough to demand those kinds of credentials, much less those kinds of credentials or better.

Just to follow up on sealocust's sage advice: There are a lot of firms that do very, very high end litigation - Kirkland, Cravath, Gibson Dunn, etc., etc.

3.8x T10 here -- I interviewed with one of those firms during my 1L job search - applied through my school's website and they gave me a callback without a screening interview. They said there was no room for me that summer but to skip OCI and arrange a callback this year. I feel like it might be weird to see all the same people again after not getting an offer (at least the hiring partners will be the same) and my not-as-great second semester, but I also don't want to miss an opportunity. I guess there's not much to lose, though. Would you follow up?

Absolutely don't follow up. Don't even consider it. You do realize that if you do that you could wind up getting a job, right? * shudder *. Then you'd have to be a lawyer. Think of the tax rates?! Jesus.

No, definitely ignore the contact. Probably ignore OCI too, I hear there are a lot of jobs to go around. Avoid that at all costs.

[seriouslyinformative]

Weil is not selective. The class of 2011 starts in January. To top it off, they're being given a $10,000 salary advance and nothing else. Three cheers for Weil!!!

[Anonymous User]

Of course. There aren't many people with over a 3.8, and no firm draws meaningful distinctions at that level. The most selective firms in the country routinely hire people from T10 with well under 3.8x GPAs. Quinn and Boies aren't nearly selective enough to demand those kinds of credentials, much less those kinds of credentials or better.

Just to follow up on sealocust's sage advice: There are a lot of firms that do very, very high end litigation - Kirkland, Cravath, Gibson Dunn, etc., etc.

3.8x T10 here -- I interviewed with one of those firms during my 1L job search - applied through my school's website and they gave me a callback without a screening interview. They said there was no room for me that summer but to skip OCI and arrange a callback this year. I feel like it might be weird to see all the same people again after not getting an offer (at least the hiring partners will be the same) and my not-as-great second semester, but I also don't want to miss an opportunity. I guess there's not much to lose, though. Would you follow up?

Absolutely don't follow up. Don't even consider it. You do realize that if you do that you could wind up getting a job, right? * shudder *. Then you'd have to be a lawyer. Think of the tax rates?! Jesus.

No, definitely ignore the contact. Probably ignore OCI too, I hear there are a lot of jobs to go around. Avoid that at all costs.

Point taken. The worst they can say is no (again). I really just figured it was a polite thing rather than a genuine suggestion to come back (I somemtimes had to write rejection letters at an old job and the form letter had a generic sentiment like that too - did the company mean it/care? probably not). But I hope you're right!

[Anonymous User]

Top 10% MVP. Want litigation and might add some NY firms, but all DC here:

1. Sidley
2. Wilmer
3. Arnold
4. Latham
5. Jones Day
6. Akin Gump
7. Morgan Lewis
8. Mayer Brown
9. Ropes
10. Bingham
11. hogan lovells
12. Vinson
13. Crowell
14. O'Melveny
15. Covington
16. Gibson Dunn
17. Venable
18. Dickstein
19. King & Spalding
20. Pillsbury
21. Steptoe
22. Kirkland
23. Goodwin
24. Reed Smith
25. Wilkie

[GeePee]

You have to get more than 25 bids, no? I would put them to use on NY. Even though I think you're in good shape for a D.C. offer theres no reason not to cover your bases.

[Anonymous User]

IP URM, 3.2 at CLS. I think this counts as keeping my bids very conservative, but would like to know if I should bid even more conservatively...? All NY offices by the way.

Sidley
Ropes
Shearman
Kaye Scholer
Dewey
Paul Hastings
Pillsbury
Greenberg
Cadwalader
Katten Muchin
Proskauer
Kenyon
hogan lovells
Dechert
Hughes Hubbard

...any more suggestions?

[Anonymous User]

GULC
Top 7-8%
F500 in-house position this summer.
Relevant WE.

Have a strong preference for D.C., but would take NY.
Want securities lit/reg in D.C., or corp securities work in NY.

We get 50 bids, but here are my top 25. Top 20 places get our resumes, hence the two secondary market bids.

Finally, I've done some list rigging (A&P most bidded on firm, but they are not my top choice; converse applies to W&C and Covington).

Too aggressive? Enough safeties?

1 Arnold & Porter DC
2 Sidley DC
3 WilmerHale DC
4 Hogan & Lovells DC
5 Gibson Dunn DC
6 K&E DC
7 Cleary NY
8 Cravath NY
9 White & Case NY
10 Skadden NY
11 Fried Frank DC
12 Davis Polk NY
13 Williams & Connolly DC
14 Covington DC
15 Sullivan & Cromwell NY
16 STB NY
17 Latham DC
18 Paul Weiss NY
19 **Top firm in secondary market, don't want to be outed
20 **2d best firm in secondary market
21 Weil Gotshal NY
22 Debevoise NY
23 Shearman NY
24 Akin Gump DC
25 Ropes & Gray DC

Thanks!

[GeePee]

GULC
Top 7-8%
F500 in-house position this summer.
Relevant WE.

Have a strong preference for D.C., but would take NY.
Want securities lit/reg in D.C., or corp securities work in NY.

We get 50 bids, but here are my top 25. Top 20 places get our resumes, hence the two secondary market bids.

Finally, I've done some list rigging (A&P most bidded on firm, but they are not my top choice; converse applies to W&C and Covington).

Too aggressive? Enough safeties?

1 Arnold & Porter DC
2 Sidley DC
3 WilmerHale DC
4 Hogan & Lovells DC
5 Gibson Dunn DC
6 K&E DC
7 Cleary NY
8 Cravath NY
9 White & Case NY
10 Skadden NY
11 Fried Frank DC
12 Davis Polk NY
13 Williams & Connolly DC
14 Covington DC
15 Sullivan & Cromwell NY
16 STB NY
17 Latham DC
18 Paul Weiss NY
19 **Top firm in secondary market, don't want to be outed
20 **2d best firm in secondary market
21 Weil Gotshal NY
22 Debevoise NY
23 Shearman NY
24 Akin Gump DC
25 Ropes & Gray DC

Thanks!

This bidlist is how you become the top 10% guy that gets no-offered.

Edit: that's mostly because your bid strategy is dumb. Your top firms should be the ones everyone will bid on, not v10s that will have plenty of slots and less bidders.

[Anonymous User]

GULC
Top 7-8%
F500 in-house position this summer.
Relevant WE.

Have a strong preference for D.C., but would take NY.
Want securities lit/reg in D.C., or corp securities work in NY.

We get 50 bids, but here are my top 25. Top 20 places get our resumes, hence the two secondary market bids.

Finally, I've done some list rigging (A&P most bidded on firm, but they are not my top choice; converse applies to W&C and Covington).

Too aggressive? Enough safeties?

1 Arnold & Porter DC
2 Sidley DC
3 WilmerHale DC
4 Hogan & Lovells DC
5 Gibson Dunn DC
6 K&E DC
7 Cleary NY
8 Cravath NY
9 White & Case NY
10 Skadden NY
11 Fried Frank DC
12 Davis Polk NY
13 Williams & Connolly DC
14 Covington DC
15 Sullivan & Cromwell NY
16 STB NY
17 Latham DC
18 Paul Weiss NY
19 **Top firm in secondary market, don't want to be outed
20 **2d best firm in secondary market
21 Weil Gotshal NY
22 Debevoise NY
23 Shearman NY
24 Akin Gump DC
25 Ropes & Gray DC

Thanks!

This bidlist is how you become the top 10% guy that gets no-offered.

Too aggressive I take it? Which firms would you drop? My GPA is between .1 and .2 higher than the historical median for all listed except Wilmer, Cravath, W&C, Cov, and SullCrom.

Not trying to be defensive-- I pretty much went by the historical data that GULC gave us...

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

[GeePee]

GULC
Top 7-8%
F500 in-house position this summer.
Relevant WE.

Have a strong preference for D.C., but would take NY.
Want securities lit/reg in D.C., or corp securities work in NY.

We get 50 bids, but here are my top 25. Top 20 places get our resumes, hence the two secondary market bids.

Finally, I've done some list rigging (A&P most bidded on firm, but they are not my top choice; converse applies to W&C and Covington).

Too aggressive? Enough safeties?

1 Arnold & Porter DC
2 Sidley DC
3 WilmerHale DC
4 Hogan & Lovells DC
5 Gibson Dunn DC
6 K&E DC
7 Cleary NY
8 Cravath NY
9 White & Case NY
10 Skadden NY
11 Fried Frank DC
12 Davis Polk NY
13 Williams & Connolly DC
14 Covington DC
15 Sullivan & Cromwell NY
16 STB NY
17 Latham DC
18 Paul Weiss NY
19 **Top firm in secondary market, don't want to be outed
20 **2d best firm in secondary market
21 Weil Gotshal NY
22 Debevoise NY
23 Shearman NY
24 Akin Gump DC
25 Ropes & Gray DC

Thanks!

This bidlist is how you become the top 10% guy that gets no-offered.

Too aggressive I take it? Which firms would you drop? My GPA is between .1 and .2 higher than the historical median for all listed except Wilmer, Cravath, W&C, Cov, and SullCrom.

Not trying to be defensive-- I pretty much went by the historical data that GULC gave us...

Any other suggestions?

Thanks!

See my edit. I think the order of the selective firms you have at the top is fine but I would intermix the more popular, less selective firms. You're in good shape but you just need to cover your bases to not blow it, and ranking some less selective firms in the top 20 to actually get interviews there is how you do that. Unless I'm misunderstanding the gulc system.

[keg411]

Anon GULC poster above: can you PM me how you found the "most bid on" firms and how many interview slots each firm has per day (if available)?

Would be much appreciated .

[Anonymous User]

See my edit. I think the order of the selective firms you have at the top is fine but I would intermix the more popular, less selective firms. You're in good shape but you just need to cover your bases to not blow it, and ranking some less selective firms in the top 20 to actually get interviews there is how you do that. Unless I'm misunderstanding the gulc system.

Thanks for your advice!

Quick clarifying question- do you think that the quality of firms is good, just the order needs to change?

You're right about how the GULC system works--here is the total bids/# interviews ratio last year

Arnold & Porter 7.6
Sidley 6.9
WilmerHale 5.4
Hogan & Lovells 4.8
Gibson Dunn 2.3
K&E 3.2
Cleary 1.9
Cravath 3.1
White & Case 2.1
Skadden 2.2
Fried Frank 2.8
Davis Polk 0.7
Williams & Connolly 2.4
Covington 1.3
Sullivan & Cromwell 2.6
STB 1.5
Latham 1.9
Paul Weiss 2.2
2d market
2d market
Weil Gotshal 2.4
Debevoise 3.9
Shearman 1.9
Akin Gump 5.2
Ropes & Gray 8.1

I guess what is driving my confusion about ordering is not knowing how to interpret this ratio. So, if a firm has a 2:1 ratio, then how far down can I rank that firm and still get an interview? I didn't want to foreclose an interview w/ Cleary, for example, which is why I ranked them higher vis a vis Akin. Help!

[Anonymous User]

School: NYU
GPA: ~3.7 (just above top 10%, I think)
Focus on transactional work, especially tax
Bidding mainly on NYC with a few bids on Boston and NJ; ties to both

We're allowed to bid up to 50, but I figure the bottom 10 are almost irrelevant as you'll rarely get those interviews anyway. Haven't settled on those yet but would like suggestions. All bids are NYC unless otherwise indicated. (Also, max 40 bids can be NYC, so only seven of the last undecided ten can be NYC unless some other NYC firm is removed.)

1. Skadden
2. Ropes
3. Paul Hastings
4. Cahill
5. clifford chance
6. Fried Frank
7. Weil
8. Kaye Scholer
9. Cleary
10. Sullivan & Cromwell
11. Cravath
12. Davis Polk
13. Simpson Thacher
14. Shearman
15. Paul Weiss
16. Debevoise
17. Ropes (Boston)
18. WilmerHale (Boston)
19. Goodwin Procter (Boston)
20. Choate Hall (Boston)
21. Roberts & Holland
22. Wachtell
23. Latham
24. White & Case
25. Chadbourne
26. Dechert
27. Schulte Roth
28. Stroock & Stroock
29. Pillsbury
30. Allen & Overy
31. Linklaters
32. Willkie Farr
33. Freshfields
34. Dewey
35. Cadwalader
36. Akin Gump
37. Jones Day
38. Cole Schotz (NJ)
39. Sills Cummis (NJ)
40. Riker Danzig (NJ)

[Anonymous User]

but I figure the bottom 10 are almost irrelevant as you'll rarely get those interviews anyway.

They are relevant if you bid on secondary markets that few people bid on. I got interviews for my entire bottom 10.

[Anonymous User]

but I figure the bottom 10 are almost irrelevant as you'll rarely get those interviews anyway.

They are relevant if you bid on secondary markets that few people bid on. I got interviews for my entire bottom 10.

Should I just fill them out with every firm coming from NJ, then? I don't really have connections to any other secondary markets (and I figure Boston gets a fair number of bids, although maybe I should bid a bit more on Boston as well).

[Anonymous User]

but I figure the bottom 10 are almost irrelevant as you'll rarely get those interviews anyway.

They are relevant if you bid on secondary markets that few people bid on. I got interviews for my entire bottom 10.

Should I just fill them out with every firm coming from NJ, then? I don't really have connections to any other secondary markets (and I figure Boston gets a fair number of bids, although maybe I should bid a bit more on Boston as well).

I split between NJ and Houston firms, mostly because there weren't enough Houston offices to round out my bid list. Got interviews at all. Got callbacks at all. Didn't get offers at all, but no harm no foul at the end of the day.

[GeePee]

See my edit. I think the order of the selective firms you have at the top is fine but I would intermix the more popular, less selective firms. You're in good shape but you just need to cover your bases to not blow it, and ranking some less selective firms in the top 20 to actually get interviews there is how you do that. Unless I'm misunderstanding the gulc system.

Thanks for your advice!

Quick clarifying question- do you think that the quality of firms is good, just the order needs to change?

You're right about how the GULC system works--here is the total bids/# interviews ratio last year

Arnold & Porter 7.6
Sidley 6.9
WilmerHale 5.4
Hogan & Lovells 4.8
Gibson Dunn 2.3
K&E 3.2
Cleary 1.9
Cravath 3.1
White & Case 2.1
Skadden 2.2
Fried Frank 2.8
Davis Polk 0.7
Williams & Connolly 2.4
Covington 1.3
Sullivan & Cromwell 2.6
STB 1.5
Latham 1.9
Paul Weiss 2.2
2d market
2d market
Weil Gotshal 2.4
Debevoise 3.9
Shearman 1.9
Akin Gump 5.2
Ropes & Gray 8.1

I guess what is driving my confusion about ordering is not knowing how to interpret this ratio. So, if a firm has a 2:1 ratio, then how far down can I rank that firm and still get an interview? I didn't want to foreclose an interview w/ Cleary, for example, which is why I ranked them higher vis a vis Akin. Help!

See that 8.1 and 5.2 at the end there? That means you probably won't get them outside of your automatic bids. Compare that to DPW, where there were fewer bids than interview slots. Move that far away from your top 20. Your list right now is really ballsy, and in my opinion that's not where you want to be. If it comes down to it, you can get interviews by direct mailings, but that's easier at Covington with 1.3 bids/slot than at Ropes with 8.1.

Obviously, just my opinion, but I'd think hard about your strategy.