Federal judicial extern taking questions

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273580
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:43 pm

blowhard wrote:I think its important to distinguish an internship from an externship. Externships are usually for credit. There are no federal court externships of which I am aware.


I always thought the difference was when in the year the externship is (i.e. internships over the summer, externships over the school year.) Fwiw, I am a rising 2L at T14 and will be working for a federal district court judge during the fall semester. I did not work for a judge over the summer. I can answer questions if people have them as well.

nymario
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby nymario » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:48 pm

blowhard wrote:I think its important to distinguish an internship from an externship. Externships are usually for credit. There are no federal court externships of which I am aware.


Living up to your name. Federal Externships exist. Inter alia (12 credits for this program):
http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContent ... erid=10360

User avatar
Mr. The Plague
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby Mr. The Plague » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:37 pm

I'm currently a judicial extern and no one seems to know what the difference between an externship and an internship is. I'm not getting credits, but I could have through my school if I wanted to. The only difference I've been able to figure out so far is that spell check doesn't think extern is a word.

Total Litigator
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:17 pm

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby Total Litigator » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:15 pm

blowhard wrote:I think its important to distinguish an internship from an externship. Externships are usually for credit. There are no federal court externships of which I am aware.


I really don't think that's true (the second part)... My school does federal externships throughout the school year for credit.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273580
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:27 am

adonai wrote:Is the selection/application process any different for Federal CoA externs? Not all circuit judges take law school externs do they? Do district judges ever offer to take you on as a clerk if you have externed with them and did a good job?


OP:

I did not apply to federal CoA positions, so I can't speak to any differences in the application process.

I don't know if all circuit judges take externs, but some district court judges do and some do not. Some judges are older and have very small dockets so there is no reason for them to hire anyone for the summer. Some just don't hire externs and I am not sure why. It's important to keep in mind that every judge is different. For example, my summer externship is very involved and requires a lot of research and writing. I have spoken to externs from other chambers who mainly do jurisdictional checks and might not work on any pre-trial motions. Some chambers only hire 1L externs to do purely administrative work, like make trial binders. Ask the career services office if they know anything about the chambers from previous externs. It's also very important to inquire about the nature of the work before you accept a position to make sure you don't assume anything. I would recommend finding this out before you even interview, so you don't waste your time or the judge's.

I don't know anyone personally who has externed and then been hired as a clerk. It makes sense to me that if you are already familiar with the judge and have done good work there, then they might want to hire you. However, I have no idea if this actually happens.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby 03121202698008 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:52 pm

nymario wrote:
blowhard wrote:I think its important to distinguish an internship from an externship. Externships are usually for credit. There are no federal court externships of which I am aware.


Living up to your name. Federal Externships exist. Inter alia (12 credits for this program):
http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContent ... erid=10360


I qualified it with of which I am aware... That was true up until I read your post.

I also said "usually for credit" which is true even if some judges call interns externs...

If you're sending cover letters to judges I'd use internship. It seems to be more standard and is the term used in all of the uscourts.gov documents I've seen dealing with them. (e.g. computer use policies, carrying cell phones in courthouses, etc.)

NotMyRealName09
Posts: 1396
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:50 pm

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:44 pm

I did externships for credit with a federal district court judge and a Sixth Circuit judge. I don't think it affects the nature of the work you'll do if you're an intern or an extern - but why not take the credit and not have to take another class in school?

To those of you lucky to land these fantastic opportunities, don't squander it. Work as many days as you can. Be hungry for the most challenging work you can get. Also, make sure to take the time to observe hearings, even if you haven't worked on the case involved.

I was surprised at other externs who just worked the minimum number of days and hours, acting like this was just a line for the resume and not a fantastic opportunity to learn from a sitting federal judge. I stayed the entire summer - weeks longer than anyone else - and worked as often as I could. How often are you going to get to work closely with a federal judge (barring, of course, clerking post law school)?

The district court judge I worked for (and his clerks) understood that this was a learning experience and were happy to allow me to spend hours observing various hearings, or trials that were occurring in the building. After you've worked on basic assignments and proven you're not an idiot, be proactive and ask the clerks for the opportunity to work on more substantive matters. I had the great pleasure, near the end of the district court internship, to work closely with the Judge, drafting memoranda on a declaratory judgment matter directly for him. He even asked for my recommendations, which happened to conform with his view of the case. The Judge's personal "nice work" was an amazing feeling. He ruled on the case on the last day of my internship, and explained to me how even the loser in the case was happy, as they now knew there was no real threat of future litigation.

The Sixth Circuit externship offered the opportunity to draft substantive bench memoranda just like the appellate clerks were drafting, but it was much more of a sit at your computer working gig, rather than the hustle and bustle of the trial court.

The district court externship taught me a lot, not only from the substantive work I did, but seeing the reality of what happens behind the scenes in the Judge's chambers. There's the "law," and then there are the realities of the administration of justice. I was always amazed at the poor quality of some lawyers' pleadings. It's a confidence booster. Judges remember lawyers, know who the assholes are, and lets just say it's true - your reputation is important, and the legal community is small.

So good luck to you seeking these externships, and to those of you privileged enough to land the opportunity - MILK IT FOR ALL IT IS WORTH.

User avatar
theturkeyisfat
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:04 am

Re: Federal judicial extern taking questions

Postby theturkeyisfat » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:11 pm

Tag




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.