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areyouinsane wrote:Bottom line is that there is/was no US "recovery." Unemployment if measured by honest, Great Depression era metrics would be north of 20%. Housing prices are still in freefall, state governments are broke and fiscal train wrecks, and Bernake yesterday said he is "clueless" why we've not come out of this yet. The few new jobs being created are mostly at freakin' Mickey D's.

Rather than allow the big banks and such to simply crash and burn in 2008 (as they deserved to), Bernake keeps pumping Fed $$$ into these "zombies." It's like giving a guy with stomach cancer a pack of Rolaids. QE made everyone feel better for a bit, but now it's worn off/over and things are right back in the crapper.

There will never be a housing recovery in our lifetimes because most people coming out of undergrad (much less law school) already owe a mortgage-sized debt in student loans. Debt that is never dischargable in bankruptcy, mind you. With no jobs (or crap jobs in retail/fast food) this toxic debt will essentially wipe out an entire generation of prospective homeowners. Our manufacturing base is utterly decimated thanks to NAFTA and outsourcing, construction is in the toilet b/c we overbuilt too many condos/strip malls/McMansion the past decade, and gas prices will likely soar into the stratosphere over the next 5 years as we've passed Peak Oil. Greece is simply the opening act in a great global finance meltdown that will drive living standards down to levels few expect or are even remotely prepared for.

This is a country who's best days are behind it.

Student loan debt is irreverent as well. Just because it pwns law grads lives, doesn't mean it's a big deal.

areyouinsane wrote: Remember, these loans are non-dischargable in bankruptcy. They can & will haunt you for the rest of your life.

What if you just up and leave the country? Go to say Thailand/Korea/Colombia and teach english or do other odd jobs for English speakers? Can student loan debt follow you to foreign countries?

Student loan debt is literally a crippling disease.

keg411 wrote:I agree that student loan debt is crappy and a major problem, but that's for other reasons. I think it's silly to BLAME student loan debt for the bad economy. I would be a very very small fraction of the population even has student loan debt. I also agree with DF and think there are a lot more severe and far reaching issues than something like student loan debt. I'm sure if the government knew that the economy would be fixed by allowing student loan debt to be discharged in bankruptcy, they would do it in a heartbeat. Law grads taking on $200k of debt, while stupid and has far-reaching consequences to the individual who does so, likely has ZERO impact on the US economy as a whole (which is what this thread is about -- the possibility of a double-dip recession and the bank layoffs are not the result of stupid law students paying sticker for bad job prospects; it may HURT people who are doing it, but it's not the CAUSE).

areyouinsane wrote:Just google "Peter Schiff" if you want the real dope on where we're headed. Dood is one smart cookie. Also check out Gerald Celente.

areyouinsane wrote:Just google "Peter Schiff" if you want the real dope on where we're headed. Dood is one smart cookie. Also check out Gerald Celente.

areyouinsane wrote:

Student loan debt is irreverent as well. Just because it pwns law grads lives, doesn't mean it's a big deal.

Irrelevant? Student loan debt in the US now exceeds credit card debt:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/col ... debt_N.htm

Recent college grads from "average" schools face the worst job market since the mid-1930s. For most law grads, the situation is arguably far worse. And the US economy is driven almost exclusively by the "little guy" buying plastic crap from Wal-Mart, crap from Home Depot to fix/furnish/improve his suburban tract home, etc. Where will someone with hundreds of dollars of loan payments a month and a job at Starbucks (if they're lucky) get the extra $$$ to buy a home and all the other crap that drives our consumer society?

Student loan debt is literally a crippling disease. Sallie Mae, Access Group et al have collection powers a Mafia don could only dream of. When they're calling your phone/jamming your email inbox 500 X a day, let's see how "irrelevant" they are. Remember, these loans are non-dischargable in bankruptcy. They can & will haunt you for the rest of your life.

keg411 wrote:^^
Was a reply to the previous poster's assertion that the economy was caused by student loan debt and student loan debt not being dischargable was part of what was "ruining" the economy. Hence the statement, even if it's totally ridiculous. So obviously not really serious .

rayiner wrote:

areyouinsane wrote:

Student loan debt is irreverent as well. Just because it pwns law grads lives, doesn't mean it's a big deal.

Irrelevant? Student loan debt in the US now exceeds credit card debt:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/col ... debt_N.htm

Recent college grads from "average" schools face the worst job market since the mid-1930s. For most law grads, the situation is arguably far worse. And the US economy is driven almost exclusively by the "little guy" buying plastic crap from Wal-Mart, crap from Home Depot to fix/furnish/improve his suburban tract home, etc. Where will someone with hundreds of dollars of loan payments a month and a job at Starbucks (if they're lucky) get the extra $$$ to buy a home and all the other crap that drives our consumer society?

Student loan debt is literally a crippling disease. Sallie Mae, Access Group et al have collection powers a Mafia don could only dream of. When they're calling your phone/jamming your email inbox 500 X a day, let's see how "irrelevant" they are. Remember, these loans are non-dischargable in bankruptcy. They can & will haunt you for the rest of your life.

In the grand scheme of things, the housing bubble was a way bigger concern than the educational loan bubble.

Outstanding education debt: $850 billion.
Outstanding mortgage debt: $14,500 billion.

but there is the thing that houses have some intrinsic value

seriouslyinformative wrote:

but there is the thing that houses have some intrinsic value

Houses backed by sub-prime mortgages had about as much intrinsic value as crappy law degrees.

rad law wrote:I'm just gonna put a bullet through my skull. Life is one long march toward death however you cut it.

areyouinsane wrote:A chick I dated for a while 2 years ago was dinged from Legal Aid in the bloodbath- she called me the other day to ask about doc review temp. jobs and how to apply, etc. Sadly, most of the temp jobs have been outsourced to India:

http://www.globallpoconference.com/usa/ ... cade-.html

rad law wrote:I'm just gonna put a bullet through my skull. Life is one long march toward death however you cut it.

shoeshine wrote:

areyouinsane wrote:Bottom line is that there is/was no US "recovery." Unemployment if measured by honest, Great Depression era metrics would be north of 20%. Housing prices are still in freefall, state governments are broke and fiscal train wrecks, and Bernake yesterday said he is "clueless" why we've not come out of this yet. The few new jobs being created are mostly at freakin' Mickey D's.

Rather than allow the big banks and such to simply crash and burn in 2008 (as they deserved to), Bernake keeps pumping Fed $$$ into these "zombies." It's like giving a guy with stomach cancer a pack of Rolaids. QE made everyone feel better for a bit, but now it's worn off/over and things are right back in the crapper.

There will never be a housing recovery in our lifetimes because most people coming out of undergrad (much less law school) already owe a mortgage-sized debt in student loans. Debt that is never dischargable in bankruptcy, mind you. With no jobs (or crap jobs in retail/fast food) this toxic debt will essentially wipe out an entire generation of prospective homeowners. Our manufacturing base is utterly decimated thanks to NAFTA and outsourcing, construction is in the toilet b/c we overbuilt too many condos/strip malls/McMansion the past decade, and gas prices will likely soar into the stratosphere over the next 5 years as we've passed Peak Oil. Greece is simply the opening act in a great global finance meltdown that will drive living standards down to levels few expect or are even remotely prepared for.

This is a country who's best days are behind it.

You are thesealocusts alt. I can't prove it but I know you are. You are how he expresses his fears about law school and the economy.

AreJay711 wrote:

seriouslyinformative wrote:

but there is the thing that houses have some intrinsic value

Houses backed by sub-prime mortgages had about as much intrinsic value as crappy law degrees.

I mean the physical house. Not the mortgage.