What is even the point?

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Joeshan520
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What is even the point?

Postby Joeshan520 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:12 pm

It's impossible to be enthusiastic about attending law school or career prospects as a lawyer when most of these threads are so despondent. Can anyone who is actually experiencing the hiring cycle at the moment explain whether or not attending law school is even worth it? I'm already looking at 120k in debt from a T10 Master's program, so I'm debating whether or not it would be worth it to do both.

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romothesavior
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:15 pm

Joeshan520 wrote:It's impossible to be enthusiastic about attending law school or career prospects as a lawyer when most of these threads are so despondent. Can anyone who is actually experiencing the hiring cycle at the moment explain whether or not attending law school is even worth it? I'm already looking at 120k in debt from a T10 Master's program, so I'm debating whether or not it would be worth it to do both.

You already have 120k in debt? Why are you not using your Masters for something?

I would not take out much more in debt for law school unless it was to a T10. I'd say go for cheap or don't go at all. The posts on TLS re: the job market are pretty accurate. Things are not pretty out there.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:18 pm

No, it makes absolutely no sense for you to spend $120k on a Masters in Public Policy and then another $100-200k on law school.

It sounds like you don't really know what you want to be. If you haven't already, take a few years off and figure that before dropping any money on a graduate degree.

The number of jobs that *require* both a Masters in Public Policy and a J.D. is extremely small. It is not worth paying six figures to get both degrees.

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gwuorbust
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:32 pm

lol @ spending 120k on a Masters.

timbs4339
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:39 pm

Joeshan520 wrote:It's impossible to be enthusiastic about attending law school or career prospects as a lawyer when most of these threads are so despondent. Can anyone who is actually experiencing the hiring cycle at the moment explain whether or not attending law school is even worth it? I'm already looking at 120k in debt from a T10 Master's program, so I'm debating whether or not it would be worth it to do both.


Do not rush into law school because you don't know what else to do. Take a few years, get out in the world, work for a while. Law school will still be there after a few years if you want it and people will have more of a sense of whether this is a cyclical downturn in the legal hiring market or a fundamental restructuring that is going to continue to squeeze entry-level attorneys into crappy temp or part-time jobs or out of the profession entirely upon graduation.

What you see on this forum is the natural outgrowth of a crappy system that does not properly set-up entry-level attorneys to enter the profession. Right now, almost everything in this system, top to bottom, seems rotten from the perspective of many law students who got screwed ITE- from the outdated law school curriculum to the sky-high tuition, insane bar prep fees, unwieldy and unresponsive biglaw hiring model, glut of small firm practicioners, and constant threat of outsourcing or insourcing and the complete inability of the ABA to see past the short-term interests of the law school deans and older lawyers. Other than biglaw and other jobs that require biglaw stats, such as federal or state government, prestigious public interest, etc, there is literally no formal training out there for young lawyers. There is no plan. Many people who are pissed off right now will eventually, 10, 20 years down the line, have great careers as lawyers by finding a practice area to specialize in and learning the buisness aspect of law such as how to get and retain clients (a skill that is literally the heart of the profession but is entirely overlooked in the standard law school curriculum). But right now, they are adrift, pissed off, and really skilled at putting how pissed off they are into words- the words you read on this and other forums.

The common wisdom still remains, only go to law school if: a) you get into a T10 school, b) get a full scholarship from a regional school and wouldn't mind working in that region, c) have a job lined up for after graduation, d) parents are paying and you really want to be a lawyer and truly understand what it is most lawyers do.

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TTH
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby TTH » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:41 pm

gwuorbust wrote:lol @ spending 120k on a Masters.


Holy shit. This.


If not flame, what do you want to do, and how is the Masters going to help to the extent that getting it justified that kind of debt?

Total Litigator
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:51 pm

gwuorbust wrote:lol @ spending 120k on a Masters.


I lol'd until I remembered I'm spending 180K on law school :(

Literally: "Hahaha... shit."

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thecilent
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby thecilent » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:56 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:lol @ spending 120k on a Masters.


I lol'd until I remembered I'm spending 180K on law school :(

Literally: "Hahaha... shit."

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MC Southstar
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:58 pm

gwuorbust wrote:lol @ spending 120k on a Masters.

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Helmholtz
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:08 pm

Total Litigator wrote:I lol'd until I remembered I'm spending 180K on law school :(

Literally: "Hahaha... shit."


I could justify my law school tuition much more than $120k on a Masters. But yeah:

gwuorbust wrote:lol @ spending 120k on a Masters.

Joeshan520
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby Joeshan520 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:39 pm

I should explain what I meant by the 120k comment. The program is linked to a T6 Law school and is developing a new specialty that deals specifically with trade and monopoly regulation. I thought that the two degrees combined would give me a thorough understanding of the way antitrust legislation and litigation works while making me more competitive in the hiring market. The means (i.e. the debt, the prestige of the school and the dual degree expediency) seem to justify the ends (landing a job at a top law firm working in antitrust regulation). Furthermore, my parents were willing to let me spend the entire summer at home studying for the October LSAT.

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MC Southstar
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby MC Southstar » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:40 pm

Joeshan520 wrote:I should explain what I meant by the 120k comment. The program is linked to a T6 Law school and is developing a new specialty that deals specifically with trade and monopoly regulation. I thought that the two degrees combined would give me a thorough understanding of the way antitrust legislation and litigation works while making me more competitive in the hiring market. The means (i.e. the debt, the prestige of the school and the dual degree expediency) seem to justify the ends (landing a job at a top law firm working in antitrust regulation). Furthermore, my parents were willing to let me spend the entire summer at home studying for the October LSAT.


Sounds interesting, but you prob won't get to use it much.

Marley
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby Marley » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:51 pm

Joeshan520 wrote:I should explain what I meant by the 120k comment. The program is linked to a T6 Law school and is developing a new specialty that deals specifically with trade and monopoly regulation. I thought that the two degrees combined would give me a thorough understanding of the way antitrust legislation and litigation works while making me more competitive in the hiring market. The means (i.e. the debt, the prestige of the school and the dual degree expediency) seem to justify the ends (landing a job at a top law firm working in antitrust regulation). Furthermore, my parents were willing to let me spend the entire summer at home studying for the October LSAT.


Study your ass off during the summer. Get a score high enough (174+) to get one of the many NYU merit scholarships (I'm assuming this is NYU since you said T6). If you don't get to that level, and don't get a substantial scholarship to NYU, I wouldn't consider law school worth it if you're just looking to eventually do regulatory policy. Network lke crazy with the faculty at your Master's program and go from there.

Black-Blue
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby Black-Blue » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:09 pm

Joeshan520 wrote:I should explain what I meant by the 120k comment. The program is linked to a T6 Law school and is developing a new specialty that deals specifically with trade and monopoly regulation. I thought that the two degrees combined would give me a thorough understanding of the way antitrust legislation and litigation works while making me more competitive in the hiring market. The means (i.e. the debt, the prestige of the school and the dual degree expediency) seem to justify the ends (landing a job at a top law firm working in antitrust regulation). Furthermore, my parents were willing to let me spend the entire summer at home studying for the October LSAT.

Sounds like you have an Econ Masters from NYU, Columbia or Chicago. Why don't you try getting a job with it, rather than going to law school?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby Kilpatrick » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:15 pm

Why is there all this blind speculation when you can just look up his post history. He's getting an MPP from Chicago

LurkerNoMore
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Re: What is even the point?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:06 pm

Joeshan520 wrote:I should explain what I meant by the 120k comment. The program is linked to a T6 Law school and is developing a new specialty that deals specifically with trade and monopoly regulation. I thought that the two degrees combined would give me a thorough understanding of the way antitrust legislation and litigation works while making me more competitive in the hiring market. The means (i.e. the debt, the prestige of the school and the dual degree expediency) seem to justify the ends (landing a job at a top law firm working in antitrust regulation). Furthermore, my parents were willing to let me spend the entire summer at home studying for the October LSAT.


No. Just no.

If you want to be an antitrust lawyer, there is zero reason to spend $120k on an MPP, especially if you are trying to hit the T6 anyway.

If you want to be a policy wonk, there is zero reason to spend $200k on a JD. You "make it" in policy by working your way through the ranks, starting at the bottom (unless you are sort of moving over from a related field, then see above). Having a JD isn't going to help you. It will just get you put in a legal job (which you could have gotten without the MPP, again, see above) or put you in danger of practicing law without a license.




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