Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

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tww909
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Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:41 am

Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby tww909 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:31 am

I'll lead with my questions:

1. What should prospective transfers be doing something right now, given that we don't where we will be doing OCI and who will be interviewing there? What is the role of mass mailing in a transfer's OCI, how should transfering be presented if mass mailing is appropriate and what is the timetable?

2. Can any transfers comment on the effect of moving outside a region where they have connections to go to a significantly better school? Were firms where you used to go to school even willing to look at you? It would be nice feeling like I had something of a safety net.

If personal details are necessary here they are:

I'm currently top 6% at Wisconsin. I've lived here my whole life, have connections, etc, I want to do a big law SA next summer, and want acadmia/clerkships down the line. I'm applying to transfer to the t6 plus M and B. Obviously I really do not want to strike out at OCI wherever it may be, and transfer or not, if I ended up with an SA at Foley in Milwaukee or something I'd be thrilled. That said, in the 2009, 2010, and 2011 summers UW has placed precisely 3 SAs at Foley and Quarles (the two largest firms in the state) including none this summer, and only 11 SAs at Chicago V100s.

kaiser
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Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby kaiser » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:34 am

By mid to late July, you should know where you will be attending next year. And since you wouldn't start mass mailing until right around that time, I don't see what the problem is. You can write up your cover letter and resume, and have everything all set, but just leave blank the section describing where you go to school. Once you decide where you are going, you fill it in, and everything is all set. You can still write up personalized cover letters for specific firms without knowing exactly where you will be attending.

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:16 am

I'm going to highjack this thread so I apologize in advance. I have a question that relates to the general title of the thread.

My NYC-area T2 (Brooklyn/St. Johns/Rutgers/Hofstra/SHU) recently released the list of firms that will be participating in our OCI in some form or another. The list includes:

1 V5
5 V25s
7 V50s
3 V100s
several other mid/shit law firms

several of the firms are CA-based with less-prestigious NYC offices (i.e. Latham and others). In reality there are about 10 firms that mildly interest me. However, because of my school's proximity to NYC firms, I should be able to grab a few more interviews by mass mailing.

I am in the Top 1%, on LR, with near full scholarship. Thus for any firms that do participate in our OCI, I should be guaranteed an interview because the system is not a lottery. While there is one V5 participating, I'm not really interested in them. I have my eye on several other V5-V25 firms based on my individual preferences; most of these firms are NOT officially participating. (DPW, Cleary, Paul Weiss, Kirkland, and Linklaters, to name a few).

Thus my question: given my proximity to NYC and class rank, what is the TLS estimation of my ability to land an SA job? i.e. should i transfer based on OCI?

I have already been accepted to one T14, but applied to 6 total. Obviously my decision to transfer or not will depend on the nature of the schools that accept me, but my primary considerations are (1) landing a SA at one of the firms that I want and (2) debt management. I have no UG debt, and LS debt should be ~$50k if i stay, or ~$120k if i transfer.

thoughts?

keg411
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Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby keg411 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:01 pm

I have a questions relevant to this thread as well -- does anyone have tips in constructing a transfer bid list? I know transfers in the past have said some firms are "hostile" to transfer students, and I'd like to avoid these firms if possible. My plan is to bid NYC and supplement a few east coast large secondary market firms either at the bottom of my bid list or at OCI. Additionally, I am willing to work at a "sweatshop"/low QOL firm so long as I can get something.

The reason I'm asking this is because my biggest fear is to transfer and then "strike out". If I'm going to come up empty at OCI, I'd rather do it at my current school with my friends and no debt.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:25 pm

keg411 wrote:I have a questions relevant to this thread as well -- does anyone have tips in constructing a transfer bid list? I know transfers in the past have said some firms are "hostile" to transfer students, and I'd like to avoid these firms if possible. My plan is to bid NYC and supplement a few east coast large secondary market firms either at the bottom of my bid list or at OCI. Additionally, I am willing to work at a "sweatshop"/low QOL firm so long as I can get something.

The reason I'm asking this is because my biggest fear is to transfer and then "strike out". If I'm going to come up empty at OCI, I'd rather do it at my current school with my friends and no debt.


Anecdotally, I have heard that 'W&C' is somewhat hostile to transfers. I don't know if that refers to White & Case or Williams & Connolly. Anyone know of any other firms?

However I don't know if it's the case that a few firms are hostile, or if it depends on the individual preferences of the interviewer.

D.Wilde
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:03 am

Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby D.Wilde » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:36 pm

So many transfer questions. First off, there's a Transfer forum to which this thread might be better suited. Now, the questions.

tww909 wrote:I'll lead with my questions:
1. What should prospective transfers be doing something right now, given that we don't where we will be doing OCI and who will be interviewing there? What is the role of mass mailing in a transfer's OCI, how should transfering be presented if mass mailing is appropriate and what is the timetable?

2. Can any transfers comment on the effect of moving outside a region where they have connections to go to a significantly better school? Were firms where you used to go to school even willing to look at you? It would be nice feeling like I had something of a safety net.

If personal details are necessary here they are:

I'm currently top 6% at Wisconsin. I've lived here my whole life, have connections, etc, I want to do a big law SA next summer, and want acadmia/clerkships down the line. I'm applying to transfer to the t6 plus M and B. Obviously I really do not want to strike out at OCI wherever it may be, and transfer or not, if I ended up with an SA at Foley in Milwaukee or something I'd be thrilled. That said, in the 2009, 2010, and 2011 summers UW has placed precisely 3 SAs at Foley and Quarles (the two largest firms in the state) including none this summer, and only 11 SAs at Chicago V100s.


1. This largely depends on your current school. For me, I had to bid at my 1L school due to their bidding deadline being the first week of July. When I found out about my transfer acceptance, I wrote letters to each of the firms with which I'd secured interviews telling them that I had to withdraw from my old school's OCI process, and that I'd hope to see them at my new school's OCI. If your current school doesn't need anything to happen right now, I'd maybe consider starting to write cover letters and resumes, but don't do the mass mailing thing until you know what school you'll be at next year.

2. I cannot comment on this, as I transferred within the same market, which is also the region where I grew up.

Regarding OCI chances, I'm sure it depends on the school, but I can only speak about what I know, so I'll say again here what I've said in other threads: The HLS transfers this year all secured offers from biglaw firms in their desired markets.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
keg411 wrote:I have a questions relevant to this thread as well -- does anyone have tips in constructing a transfer bid list? I know transfers in the past have said some firms are "hostile" to transfer students, and I'd like to avoid these firms if possible. My plan is to bid NYC and supplement a few east coast large secondary market firms either at the bottom of my bid list or at OCI. Additionally, I am willing to work at a "sweatshop"/low QOL firm so long as I can get something.

The reason I'm asking this is because my biggest fear is to transfer and then "strike out". If I'm going to come up empty at OCI, I'd rather do it at my current school with my friends and no debt.


Anecdotally, I have heard that 'W&C' is somewhat hostile to transfers. I don't know if that refers to White & Case or Williams & Connolly. Anyone know of any other firms?

However I don't know if it's the case that a few firms are hostile, or if it depends on the individual preferences of the interviewer.


Williams & Connolly: A friend of mine with significantly higher than a 4.0 at a T25 during 1L was explicitly told that, as a transfer, his application would not be considered and that if he was still interested, he would have to wait until 3L OCI to have a shot. Of course, I cannot possibly know whether this was individual interviewer bias or overall firm policy.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby keg411 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
keg411 wrote:I have a questions relevant to this thread as well -- does anyone have tips in constructing a transfer bid list? I know transfers in the past have said some firms are "hostile" to transfer students, and I'd like to avoid these firms if possible. My plan is to bid NYC and supplement a few east coast large secondary market firms either at the bottom of my bid list or at OCI. Additionally, I am willing to work at a "sweatshop"/low QOL firm so long as I can get something.

The reason I'm asking this is because my biggest fear is to transfer and then "strike out". If I'm going to come up empty at OCI, I'd rather do it at my current school with my friends and no debt.


Anecdotally, I have heard that 'W&C' is somewhat hostile to transfers. I don't know if that refers to White & Case or Williams & Connolly. Anyone know of any other firms?

However I don't know if it's the case that a few firms are hostile, or if it depends on the individual preferences of the interviewer.


Williams & Connolly: A friend of mine with significantly higher than a 4.0 at a T25 during 1L was explicitly told that, as a transfer, his application would not be considered and that if he was still interested, he would have to wait until 3L OCI to have a shot. Of course, I cannot possibly know whether this was individual interviewer bias or overall firm policy.


Good to know :). No interest in Williams and Connolly anyway (because I don't want DC, the NY office is tiny, and they'd laugh at me as much as CSM).

D.Wilde
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:03 am

Re: Transfer OCI/Mass Mailing

Postby D.Wilde » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:42 am

keg411 wrote:I have a questions relevant to this thread as well -- does anyone have tips in constructing a transfer bid list? I know transfers in the past have said some firms are "hostile" to transfer students, and I'd like to avoid these firms if possible. My plan is to bid NYC and supplement a few east coast large secondary market firms either at the bottom of my bid list or at OCI. Additionally, I am willing to work at a "sweatshop"/low QOL firm so long as I can get something.

The reason I'm asking this is because my biggest fear is to transfer and then "strike out". If I'm going to come up empty at OCI, I'd rather do it at my current school with my friends and no debt.


Of course, it all depends on your first-year grades and school, your new school, your resume, and your ability to seem awesome during interviews, but collectively, HLS transfers last year received offers from nearly all of the V25. Personally, when I went into OCI, the career services people told me that my bit list was "on the aggressive side," as I had bid on most of the top NYC and Boston firms. However, my reasoning was that I had been a paralegal at a firm ranked in the 30s by Vault, and given that I was extremely close with the Hiring Partner, I was pretty sure they'd give me an offer, so I felt confident bidding high in NYC. After all the dust settled, I had 3 offers from V25 firms in NYC (including one V5) along with offers from my top choice firms in Boston.

If anyone wants further specifics, or has questions about transferring, please feel free to drop me a PM.




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