3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

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anonymcoffee
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3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby anonymcoffee » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:35 pm

i need TLS help/recommendations. I have a 3.2 at GW (no mock/moot/journal). What firms should I focus on? I know realistically my changes are low; I am a good at interviews...so somehow I need to get past the screener. Thinking about choosing some random firms and asking to meet with random alumni partners, is this a good idea?

As for the NYC, DC debate...does DC care about ties? Been in DC for about 4 years and now started law school here. I will try to network w/ DC attorneys b/c I live here, but then does it matter if I apply to NYC office?

kaiser
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby kaiser » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:37 pm

How could anyone help without knowing what a 3.2 means at your school? Need rank info to help.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:48 pm

kaiser wrote:How could anyone help without knowing what a 3.2 means at your school? Need rank info to help.
3.2 is basically exactly median.

HyeMart
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby HyeMart » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:53 pm

kaiser wrote:How could anyone help without knowing what a 3.2 means at your school? Need rank info to help.


its median

anonymcoffee
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Re: Median at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby anonymcoffee » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:24 am

So median at GWU, no journal/moot/mock - any specific firms I should focus on? We have 170 employers coming to OCI and I have no idea where to begin researching them.

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Re: Median at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:58 am

anonymcoffee wrote:So median at GWU, no journal/moot/mock - any specific firms I should focus on? We have 170 employers coming to OCI and I have no idea where to begin researching them.


So you'll want to start with Vault if you're a prestige snob (it's ok, I am too, you can also check NLJ 250 and Am200 if you're just looking for market or near-market paying jobs). After that check them in NALP, see where their offices are, see what their practice areas are and see how many SAs they hired for 2011 in each office. You can also click on the "review" buttons in Symplicity to bring up some information about them. Check out the individual firm's website once you think you're interested.

Have you met with CDO yet? You might want to if you haven't - my grades weren't stellar and I thought the appointment was very helpful in maximizing my chances at OCI, though admittedly it is an ongoing conversation now.

At median your options are more limited (again, mine are too) so aim for lower V-rankings or firms that are known to hire a little bit lower GPAs.

anonymcoffee
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby anonymcoffee » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:18 pm

so I started by reading vault and the comments and anything above approx. rank 50 I am not considering since I will have no to low chances.

As for the whole "bid on NYC" what does that mean? Bid on firms with NYC offices and interview there, or are DC firms interviewing for NYC offices?

Any specific firms that are more accepting of lower GPA?

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TTH
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Re: Median at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby TTH » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:29 pm

anonymcoffee wrote:So median at GWU, no journal/moot/mock - any specific firms I should focus on? We have 170 employers coming to OCI and I have no idea where to begin researching them.


Jesus Christ I went to a lame law school.

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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:38 pm

anonymcoffee wrote:so I started by reading vault and the comments and anything above approx. rank 50 I am not considering since I will have no to low chances.

As for the whole "bid on NYC" what does that mean? Bid on firms with NYC offices and interview there, or are DC firms interviewing for NYC offices?

Any specific firms that are more accepting of lower GPA?


I'm at GW too and actually in a bit worse shape than you are GPA wise. You want to focus on large office sizes, this usually means NY offices but some firms are HQ'ed in DC and their office there is larger. In short if you can, you should apply to both. I'd say pick the larger office for OCI (if they don't let you apply for both via OCI) and then mail the other.

For lower GPA firms, I hear Linklaters hires down to median (think they are a resume collect for us). Also consider looking at Venable. Just two I know of off the top of my head. Oh. And Bryan Cave. But in actuality you shouldn't apply to any of those places...because I'm applying to all of them.

timbs4339
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:40 pm

anonymcoffee wrote:so I started by reading vault and the comments and anything above approx. rank 50 I am not considering since I will have no to low chances.

As for the whole "bid on NYC" what does that mean? Bid on firms with NYC offices and interview there, or are DC firms interviewing for NYC offices?

Any specific firms that are more accepting of lower GPA?


Go up to Vault 20. The Vault ranking is not a very good measure of law firm selectivity. A V30 with a summer class of 50 is a better bid than a V90 with a summer class of 10.

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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:43 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
anonymcoffee wrote:so I started by reading vault and the comments and anything above approx. rank 50 I am not considering since I will have no to low chances.

As for the whole "bid on NYC" what does that mean? Bid on firms with NYC offices and interview there, or are DC firms interviewing for NYC offices?

Any specific firms that are more accepting of lower GPA?


Go up to Vault 20. The Vault ranking is not a very good measure of law firm selectivity. A V30 with a summer class of 50 is a better bid than a V90 with a summer class of 10.


This is also credited. I'm hitting some V20 firms that I'm fairly certain are out of my reach just because I'm not entirely sure what their cutoff is. Honestly the best thing you can do is talk to CDO about your bids for the OCI firms. Additionally there's no reason not to hit every employer in the NYC regional (unless the list has grown since last I saw, but I was fairly certain there were enough bids for every employer).

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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:56 pm

Not to rain on anyone's parade but I was a GW student with a 3.25 URM and got 0 interviews through OCI last year. So if this year is anything like last year don't hold your breath. Might want to start getting creative.

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Teoeo
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Teoeo » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:01 pm

tag

Total Litigator
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not to rain on anyone's parade but I was a GW student with a 3.25 URM and got 0 interviews through OCI last year. So if this year is anything like last year don't hold your breath. Might want to start getting creative.


TTCR. This thread is WAY too cheery. It's not 2007 and the guy is not at Harvard.

I mean seriously. V20's?!

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romothesavior
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:16 pm

Total Litigator wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not to rain on anyone's parade but I was a GW student with a 3.25 URM and got 0 interviews through OCI last year. So if this year is anything like last year don't hold your breath. Might want to start getting creative.


TTCR. This thread is WAY too cheery. It's not 2007 and the guy is not at Harvard.

I mean seriously. V20's?!

+1. This thread is kinda silly so far.

Doesn't hurt to try, OP, but your odds of getting a biglaw or midlaw job from OCI (let alone a friggen' Vault firm) are pretty slim.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:28 pm

1. Get data from your OCS of what grade range firms actually offered call backs to. Don't go by the NALP range.
2. Send out letters to firms by August 1 (every firm you could see yourself working at). For firms you plan on bidding, let them know you plan on bidding on them (if you haven't already done so).
3. After you get results of OCI interviews, contact any firm you bid on and did not get an interview with again, letting them know you bid but got locked out. (Reference your previous letter.)
4. Start asking for informational interviews with attorneys in DC now (should have already been doing this).
5. Start reaching out to alumni in other markets now. Let them know you are interested in working there and that you were hoping to talk to them, an attorney practicing in that market, about what the market/practice is really like there.
6. To start with, networking/information interviews should be either with extreme reaches or other firms that aren't strong targets. You don't want to screw up with a strong target. You can also be a little more candid (but still professional) in your questions when you aren't trying to score a job in the back of your mind.
7. DON'T COUNT ON OCI. Assume you will get nothing from it right now. Nothing wrong with having too many offers, but you don't want be coming back her in October freaking out because you struck out.

Good luck!

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romothesavior
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:30 pm

LurkerNoMore wrote:2. Send out letters to firms by August 1 (every firm you could see yourself working at). For firms you plan on bidding, let them know you plan on bidding on them (if you haven't already done so).
3. After you get results of OCI interviews, contact any firm you bid on and did not get an interview with again, letting them know you bid but got locked out. (Reference your previous letter.)

Explain. We should be emailing/mailing firms and saying, "Hey, I'm so-and-so and I plan to bid on you?"

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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:35 pm

LurkerNoMore wrote:3. After you get results of OCI interviews, contact any firm you bid on and did not get an interview with again, letting them know you bid but got locked out. (Reference your previous letter.)



GW is all pre-select, so if they didn't see you at OCI it's not simply because someone else "bid them higher." It's because they chose other people over you.

Does that change your #3?

LurkerNoMore
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:37 pm

romothesavior wrote:
LurkerNoMore wrote:2. Send out letters to firms by August 1 (every firm you could see yourself working at). For firms you plan on bidding, let them know you plan on bidding on them (if you haven't already done so).
3. After you get results of OCI interviews, contact any firm you bid on and did not get an interview with again, letting them know you bid but got locked out. (Reference your previous letter.)

Explain. We should be emailing/mailing firms and saying, "Hey, I'm so-and-so and I plan to bid on you?"


If you are at a school where it is unlikely that you will get many firms out of OCI, you should contact them early. But, so you don't look like an idiot who doesn't know that they are coming to OCI, you should let them know that you are bidding on them.

If you are likely to get an interview slot at OCI OR if your OCI interview list comes out early, you can skip this and just wait to see if you got a slot.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby LurkerNoMore » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LurkerNoMore wrote:3. After you get results of OCI interviews, contact any firm you bid on and did not get an interview with again, letting them know you bid but got locked out. (Reference your previous letter.)



GW is all pre-select, so if they didn't see you at OCI it's not simply because someone else "bid them higher." It's because they chose other people over you.

Does that change your #3?


Sorry -- yes it does. And it also changes my #2, I'd just send letters out then.

Thanks for the clarification.

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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:42 pm

Just a quick reality check for OP and others.....

I transferred to GW last year having been about top 25% at my previous school which was not much lower in the rankings. Because of my prior work experience I had an awesome 1L job with a prestigious firm (that doesn't hire straight from law school) but provides great experience....

I know transfers can fare somewhat differently, but I struck out almost completely at OCI (ended up with an alternate spot that I did get an interview for) but nothing else.

Honestly, things are bad...unless you have some great connections or something else special that will stick out about your resume, you could face the same fate.

Be prepared for your job search to be a long haul-rather than a short sprint. I wish that someone had prepared me for that. It took me hundreds (and I mean many hundreds) of applications to get just a few interviews, and I didn't actually end up with a job until about 2 weeks before exams ended. And even then, it is not a permanent job.

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romothesavior
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:46 pm

LurkerNoMore wrote:If you are at a school where it is unlikely that you will get many firms out of OCI, you should contact them early. But, so you don't look like an idiot who doesn't know that they are coming to OCI, you should let them know that you are bidding on them.

If you are likely to get an interview slot at OCI OR if your OCI interview list comes out early, you can skip this and just wait to see if you got a slot.

What I mean is, what should I say if I do this? It just seems bizarre to randomly contact the firm and say "Hey I'm bidding on you." I'm all for networking and I do it more than most other law students, but I'm not sure how to go about doing this, or even if I should.

anonymcoffee
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby anonymcoffee » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:50 pm

thanks for the advice so far ...as to the poster who recommended V20 or the higher ranked firms...I am realistic and I am starting job search with a bleak outlook aka not wasting bids on unreachable firms.

I will start the mass mailing and have scheduled a meeting with the career office. What about diversity ...but as a female, or does that not count anymore?

I am looking for a paying job that will lead to a full time position, market pay would be nice but anything close to that or enough to pay debts is still fine...but I guess right now...this is what everyone else wants.

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Helmholtz
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:54 pm

I'm going to echo what others have said, and advise that you, in no way, rely upon OCI for anything. Starting today, act like you will have exactly zero interviews for OCI and start hustling for anything. The goal is to get a job.

Good luck, OP.

Total Litigator
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Re: 3.2 at GW...OCI recommendations?

Postby Total Litigator » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:57 pm

anonymcoffee wrote:thanks for the advice so far ...as to the poster who recommended V20 or the higher ranked firms...I am realistic and I am starting job search with a bleak outlook aka not wasting bids on unreachable firms.

I will start the mass mailing and have scheduled a meeting with the career office. What about diversity ...but as a female, or does that not count anymore?

I am looking for a paying job that will lead to a full time position, market pay would be nice but anything close to that or enough to pay debts is still fine...but I guess right now...this is what everyone else wants.


Yeahhh, the V20 peeps are going to be ranting on here later on about how life is so unfair because they didn't get any interviews out of their bids. Also, being female won't get you any bonuses.

Median at GWU, you still have some (slight) chance at the NLJ 250, but you're going to have to really work for it. I would also look outside of DC. Look to Viriginia, Maryland, etc. too, and where ever you went to undergrad / have substantial connections to.




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