NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

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Anonymous User
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NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:32 pm

can i get away with this bid list? is it too ambitious? i've sort of lost perspective on this whole thing and i feel like everythign is a reach. i dont really know exactly how im going to order them yet but i just need to know if i have way too many reaches or if im missing some firms that id have a good chance at. i'd like to do litigation. thanks!

NYC:
Allen and Overy
Alston and Bird
Arnold and Porter
Baker and McKenzie
Brown Rudnick
Cahill Gordon
Carter Ledyard
Chadbourne and Parke
Davis Polk
Debevoise
Dechert
Dewey and LeBoeuf
Fox Rothschild
Gibson Dunn
Goodwin Procter
Greenberg Traurig
Hogan Lovells
Hughes Hubbard
Jenner and Block
Katten Muchin
Kaye Scholer
King and Spalding
Kramer Levin
Linklaters
Mayer Brown
McDermott Will and Emery
Morgan Lewis
Morrison and Foerster
Nixon Peabody
O'Melveny and [deleted]
Orrick Herrington
Paul Hastings
Proskauer
Schulte Roth and Zabel
Shearman and Sterling
Sidley Austin
Stroock and Stroock and Lavan
Winston and Strawn

DC:
Akin Gump
Alston and Bird
Baker and Hostetler
Bryan Cave
Cadwalader, Wickersham and Taft
Cooley Godward
Foley and Lardner
Fried Frank
Jones Day
K&L Gates
Ropes and Gray
Pillsbury Winthrop

MBeezy11
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby MBeezy11 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:31 pm

Recently graduated from NYU. Starting at V30 in the fall. I think your list is somewhat ambitious for someone that may be at or below median.

You have at least 5 firms that are reaches.

Allen and Overy
Davis Polk
Debevoise
Gibson Dunn
Linklaters
Sidley Austin

I would definitely either get rid of at least 3 of them and rank them at the bottom of my list. I haven't seen the the list of firms this year but I think you should be focusing more on firms in the V50-V100 range. Also, what has Career Services said to you about the DC market. I was under the impression it was very competitive and there were not many spots so you had to have better credentials. I would encourage you to submit your list to Career Services just to be safe. Trust me this is one of the few times when you really want their advice because they have the most knowledge about grades and offers.

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GeePee
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby GeePee » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:56 pm

That seems like far too many bids on D.C. for someone around median. I'd cut about half of those bids for NY.

Aston2412
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Aston2412 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:59 pm

MBeezy11 wrote:Recently graduated from NYU. Starting at V30 in the fall. I think your list is somewhat ambitious for someone that may be at or below median.

You have at least 5 firms that are reaches.


Linklaters


I would definitely either get rid of at least 3 of them and rank them at the bottom of my list. I haven't seen the the list of firms this year but I think you should be focusing more on firms in the V50-V100 range. Also, what has Career Services said to you about the DC market. I was under the impression it was very competitive and there were not many spots so you had to have better credentials. I would encourage you to submit your list to Career Services just to be safe. Trust me this is one of the few times when you really want their advice because they have the most knowledge about grades and offers.


Doesn't Linklaters hire down to median at most T14s? Especially if you're fluent in basically any language that isn't English.

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rayiner
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:00 pm

The NYC offices of Magic Circle firms are not reaches.

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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:15 pm

OP here. Thanks for your opinions. I probably will take out a few of the firms mentioned above, and I did send my list to OCS to see what they think so I'll see what they tell me. In terms of bidding on lower ranked firms, I noticed a lot of them had significantly less interview spots. Would I then have to put these at the very top of my list to even get an interview? I figured I'd bid on a few of the (relatively) less grade conscious reaches with more interview spots, but maybe that isn't the right approach to this... :?

Also, would Chicago be an easier backup city than dc? I didn't think I'd have much better odds there and if that's the case I'd rather go for dc, but please let me know if I'm mistaken (particularly nyu 3Ls who did this). For what it's worth, I have a 3.3 now that my last grade is in. Is dc a complete waste of bids for those of us at the median?

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rayiner
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby rayiner » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks for your opinions. I probably will take out a few of the firms mentioned above, and I did send my list to OCS to see what they think so I'll see what they tell me. In terms of bidding on lower ranked firms, I noticed a lot of them had significantly less interview spots. Would I then have to put these at the very top of my list to even get an interview? I figured I'd bid on a few of the (relatively) less grade conscious reaches with more interview spots, but maybe that isn't the right approach to this... :?

Also, would Chicago be an easier backup city than dc? I didn't think I'd have much better odds there and if that's the case I'd rather go for dc, but please let me know if I'm mistaken (particularly nyu 3Ls who did this). For what it's worth, I have a 3.3 now that my last grade is in. Is dc a complete waste of bids for those of us at the median?


DC is not anyone's backup city.

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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:56 am

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks for your opinions. I probably will take out a few of the firms mentioned above, and I did send my list to OCS to see what they think so I'll see what they tell me. In terms of bidding on lower ranked firms, I noticed a lot of them had significantly less interview spots. Would I then have to put these at the very top of my list to even get an interview? I figured I'd bid on a few of the (relatively) less grade conscious reaches with more interview spots, but maybe that isn't the right approach to this... :?

Also, would Chicago be an easier backup city than dc? I didn't think I'd have much better odds there and if that's the case I'd rather go for dc, but please let me know if I'm mistaken (particularly nyu 3Ls who did this). For what it's worth, I have a 3.3 now that my last grade is in. Is dc a complete waste of bids for those of us at the median?


DC is not anyone's backup city.

Can't speak for what OP meant, but "backup" may just have been a misleading choice of words there: we're required to have 10 non-NYC bids. So it's more like a mandatory-I-don't-actually-want-this city than a backup.

Also OP I think MBeezy is right that for a lot of firms you need a higher GPA for the DC office than the NYC office. Take a look at our confidential data, but I think your DC list is ambitious for a 3.3 (which is me too).

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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:00 pm

we're required to have 10 non-NYC bids.


This is where a lot of people make mistakes at NYU. Unless your grades are through the roof, you should be using those ten bids on either firms in a secondary market to which you have strong ties, or firms in NJ or CT. This has the advantage of getting you more interviews, as these firms tend to be undersubscribed and even bids ranked in the high 40s can earn you quite a few of interviews at them. Putting in 10 DC firms at the bottom is a sure-fire way to guarantee you'll either get no screening interviews at them or, if you do get them, you get no callbacks at them.

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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:01 pm

Aston2412 wrote:Doesn't Linklaters hire down to median at most T14s? Especially if you're fluent in basically any language that isn't English.


Is second language fluency a prereq or just preferred for Linklaters?

seriouslyinformative
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby seriouslyinformative » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:03 pm

Doesn't Linklaters hire down to median at most T14s? Especially if you're fluent in basically any language that isn't English.


Is this empirically true or just based on your intuition that a London-based firm would want an associate fluent in multiple languages?

Aston2412
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Aston2412 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:12 pm

Hire down to the median is based on what I've heard on these forums repeatedly.

"Fluency in any of the following languages a plus: Korean, Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish or Portuguese."

Above quotation is taken directly from their Symplicity profile and verified through Vault's Career Insider.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby seriouslyinformative » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:19 pm

"Fluency in any of the following languages a plus: Korean, Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish or Portuguese."

Above quotation is taken directly from their Symplicity profile and verified through Vault's Career Insider.


Just FYI: What is said in symplicity isn't always true. A good example of this is when firms post grade cut-offs.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just wondering if this is TLS urban legend or if there is true substance behind this. The fact that Linklaters takes from median at CLS doesn't prove much, since the NY office is not exactly at the top of the prestige food-chain. They have to take median kids just to fill their summer class...

Aston2412
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Aston2412 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:24 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
"Fluency in any of the following languages a plus: Korean, Mandarin, Japanese, French, German, Spanish or Portuguese."

Above quotation is taken directly from their Symplicity profile and verified through Vault's Career Insider.


Just FYI: What is said in symplicity isn't always true. A good example of this is when firms post grade cut-offs.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just wondering if this is TLS urban legend or if there is true substance behind this. The fact that Linklaters takes from median at CLS doesn't prove much, since the NY office is not exactly at the top of the prestige food-chain. They have to take median kids just to fill their summer class...


Well that gives me some hope in applying to them...now if only I could learn Mandarin by the end of July...

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Core
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Core » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
we're required to have 10 non-NYC bids.


This is where a lot of people make mistakes at NYU. Unless your grades are through the roof, you should be using those ten bids on either firms in a secondary market to which you have strong ties, or firms in NJ or CT. This has the advantage of getting you more interviews, as these firms tend to be undersubscribed and even bids ranked in the high 40s can earn you quite a few of interviews at them. Putting in 10 DC firms at the bottom is a sure-fire way to guarantee you'll either get no screening interviews at them or, if you do get them, you get no callbacks at them.


If one doesn't have ties to NJ or CT, how does a New Yorker get over that hurdle?

Anonymous User
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:24 pm

Core wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
we're required to have 10 non-NYC bids.


This is where a lot of people make mistakes at NYU. Unless your grades are through the roof, you should be using those ten bids on either firms in a secondary market to which you have strong ties, or firms in NJ or CT. This has the advantage of getting you more interviews, as these firms tend to be undersubscribed and even bids ranked in the high 40s can earn you quite a few of interviews at them. Putting in 10 DC firms at the bottom is a sure-fire way to guarantee you'll either get no screening interviews at them or, if you do get them, you get no callbacks at them.


If one doesn't have ties to NJ or CT, how does a New Yorker get over that hurdle?


From my understanding, breaking into NJ is very difficult for an outsider. It is the definition of an insular market. And it has what I call "jealous girlfriend" syndrome. By that I mean that they will be very wary and suspicious of NY students, even from NYU or Columbia, who are just using NJ as a backup, since they may suspect you will just jump back to NYC given an opportunity to go there.

If you look up the big firm offices in Newark or North Jersey, they are absolutely filled with Rutgers and Seton Hall grads. NJ rewards its own. Consider this. I am from NJ and want to come back to this area after school, but went to law school outside of the state. When I applied to judicial internships in NJ, I got a huge number of interviews from the best courts and judges. My Columbia friend applied for those same jobs in addition to NY judges. He didn't get a single call from a NJ judge (though he got a number of NY interviews). And even though I'm from there, they still gave me the "traitor" attitude for leaving the state for college and law school, and I had to answer that question in almost every interview.

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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:55 pm

Anonymous from above:

Yeah, I don't know about the ties issue. I got callback offers from every NJ firm I interviewed with, and I have no ties to the state. I cancelled the callbacks after I received other offers, though, so I don't know how I would have fared.

keg411
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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby keg411 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:29 pm

I think Jersey is worth applying to if you can sell it and make it sound like you want to be there (plus, you can probably at least get interviews, which is better than not getting anything out of DC). I know from this year's SA edition of the New Jersey Law Journal, the BigLaw classes have definitely increased their T14 presence (and are far more T14 than Rutgers/SHU). However, only two NJ firms have decent class sizes (Lowenstein and McElroy Deutsch).

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Re: NYU OCI Bid List - 3.25

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:32 pm

Sorry for the necromancy, but I remembered there was helpful NJ advice here. My situation:

I'm a hair below median at NYU, my SO works in the city and will continue to work here, and we're not from this region prior to law school... BUT I'm spending 1L summer interning (not at a firm) in northern Jersey AND we will probably have signed for a house there by OCI. Good ties?? I'm torn about whether moving to Jersey (doing it anyway, not for OCI lol) demonstrates any commitment to actually work long-term in Jersey... it's not one of the really close commuter places like Hoboken, but still within (long-ish) commuting distance to the city.

One reason I'm interested in NJ is that from my experiences so far it seems like a much closer-knit legal community than NYC, where you might not even know the people in your own office. Is that a stupid thing to say? All the firms I'm looking at also have specific practice areas that I'm interested in, of course, but what else would be normal reasons for someone who wasn't from NJ to choose NJ over NYC? (Also, will it help at all that I ranked the firms really high (partially because most of them had like 10 interview slots) or do they not see that?)

Thanks for the tip on McElroy Deutsch. I don't think they're coming to OCI, so that's good to know for mailing purposes.




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