What should I do? Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 428446
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
What should I do?
I'm a rising 2L somewhere in the top 30% at a lower ranked T14. Even ITE, a majority of people in my position have been able to land biglaw through OCI. When I graduate, I'll have somewhere around 90-100k in debt, all federal, no private. However, I don't want a *career* in biglaw, or in any firm, for that matter. I really want to go solo after a few years. That was my dream going into school, and it's only grown stronger since I've been here. Particular interest in criminal defense, but also interested in employment/labor (plaintiff side) and (don't laugh) personal injury.
If I'm fortunate enough to get a biglaw offer through OCI for summer 2L, should I take it? Or should I instead try and get a job at a midsized firm or prosecutors office?
Pros to biglaw: Pay off my debt. Save lots of start up capital. Have biglaw on my resume in case solo firm fails.
Cons to biglaw: Terrified that I won't *learn* anything worthwhile to starting my own firm. If I spend 3 years in a biglaw firm just basically doing discovery and maybe drafting an occasional motion, it won't help me when it comes time to take a case from beginning to end. This is the biggest negative to biglaw in my mind. Hopefully someone can dispel it.
Pros to prosecutor/PD/small firm: Serious experience. Knowledge of how to do everything in a case, from filing the complaint (or handling the arraignment) through trial. Contacts and networking in the field. Starting a crim firm after prosecuting or defending cases for three or four years means I'd probably have some good referral sources.
Cons to this: Less $. Would probably have to start my firm with less start up capital, but more experience. Also, at least as I understand it, most PDs and DAs don't hire directly from their 2L summer class; instead, you need to apply after graduation. Graduating without any job is a big risk if you can avoid it.
My dream option would be to somehow land a job at a small to midsized firm that handles criminal defense or employment/labor law. I'd probably get a good mix of experience with a salary at least somewhat better than working as a prosecutor or PD. However, this seems like it only happens by sheer luck. I don't think many midsized firms like this have summer programs that they hire from in a fashion like biglaw.
Sorry for the long-winded post, but I need some serious guidance. Thanks for the help.
If I'm fortunate enough to get a biglaw offer through OCI for summer 2L, should I take it? Or should I instead try and get a job at a midsized firm or prosecutors office?
Pros to biglaw: Pay off my debt. Save lots of start up capital. Have biglaw on my resume in case solo firm fails.
Cons to biglaw: Terrified that I won't *learn* anything worthwhile to starting my own firm. If I spend 3 years in a biglaw firm just basically doing discovery and maybe drafting an occasional motion, it won't help me when it comes time to take a case from beginning to end. This is the biggest negative to biglaw in my mind. Hopefully someone can dispel it.
Pros to prosecutor/PD/small firm: Serious experience. Knowledge of how to do everything in a case, from filing the complaint (or handling the arraignment) through trial. Contacts and networking in the field. Starting a crim firm after prosecuting or defending cases for three or four years means I'd probably have some good referral sources.
Cons to this: Less $. Would probably have to start my firm with less start up capital, but more experience. Also, at least as I understand it, most PDs and DAs don't hire directly from their 2L summer class; instead, you need to apply after graduation. Graduating without any job is a big risk if you can avoid it.
My dream option would be to somehow land a job at a small to midsized firm that handles criminal defense or employment/labor law. I'd probably get a good mix of experience with a salary at least somewhat better than working as a prosecutor or PD. However, this seems like it only happens by sheer luck. I don't think many midsized firms like this have summer programs that they hire from in a fashion like biglaw.
Sorry for the long-winded post, but I need some serious guidance. Thanks for the help.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 695
- Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:18 am
Re: What should I do?
One avenue you may not have thought of (or maybe you did, and didn't want to go that route):
Biglaw 2-3 years --> DA/PD office 2-3 years --> private practice crim defense.
$$$$$ --> Experience --> Dream
Biglaw 2-3 years --> DA/PD office 2-3 years --> private practice crim defense.
$$$$$ --> Experience --> Dream
-
- Posts: 428446
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: What should I do?
OP here. That would be awesome, pretty difficult to pull off, I think. I think most DA/PD offices, especially in large metros, hire almost entirely fresh grads.BeenDidThat wrote:One avenue you may not have thought of (or maybe you did, and didn't want to go that route):
Biglaw 2-3 years --> DA/PD office 2-3 years --> private practice crim defense.
$$$$$ --> Experience --> Dream
-
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:28 am
Re: What should I do?
If I were in your shoes I would take a BigLaw job and pay off my debt before looking for something else. It's much easier to go the BigLaw --> prosecutor/PD/small firm route as opposed to the prosecutor/PD/small firm --> BigLaw route. Also I think you're underestimating how bad the debt is. If you go prosecutor/PD/small firm right out of law school when you had the option of BigLaw, I'm willing to bet that after your first loan check you'll be wishing you took the BigLaw route.
-
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 pm
Re: What should I do?
A couple of suggestions:
(1) If you're seriously interested in employment/labor law, there's a ton of midsized, more boutique firms that focus on that practice. Take a look at places like Littler Mendelson, etc.
(2) You should probably still go for Biglaw, but spend some time figuring out which firms have reputations for strong associate development and mentorship. I don't get the sense that you care a ton about prestige or making partner, so picking the best Vault firm or the firm with the highest PPP is not going to help you much. I'd talk to OCS and also look at places that are not quite as highly leveraged.
(1) If you're seriously interested in employment/labor law, there's a ton of midsized, more boutique firms that focus on that practice. Take a look at places like Littler Mendelson, etc.
(2) You should probably still go for Biglaw, but spend some time figuring out which firms have reputations for strong associate development and mentorship. I don't get the sense that you care a ton about prestige or making partner, so picking the best Vault firm or the firm with the highest PPP is not going to help you much. I'd talk to OCS and also look at places that are not quite as highly leveraged.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:49 pm
Re: What should I do?
Take your talents to south beach.
- GeePee
- Posts: 1273
- Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:35 pm
Re: What should I do?
Even some bigger firms have Employment/ERISA practices -- they have the potential to be very valuable and good lawyers are always in demand. If this is your interest, then go for it.smittytron3k wrote:A couple of suggestions:
(1) If you're seriously interested in employment/labor law, there's a ton of midsized, more boutique firms that focus on that practice. Take a look at places like Littler Mendelson, etc.
(2) You should probably still go for Biglaw, but spend some time figuring out which firms have reputations for strong associate development and mentorship. I don't get the sense that you care a ton about prestige or making partner, so picking the best Vault firm or the firm with the highest PPP is not going to help you much. I'd talk to OCS and also look at places that are not quite as highly leveraged.
Otherwise, you might be able to do white collar criminal defense at a firm, which should make the jump to PD/DA/AUSA a bit easier to sell.
-
- Posts: 428446
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: What should I do?
OP here. Thank you for the helpful replies, everyone. You're definitely correct that I don't care about prestige, vault ranking, or exit options. What firms, outside of the ones I clearly have no shot at (like WC), have the biggest white collar practices?
Also, other than NALP's directory site, is there a place that has good information on firms?
Thanks.
Also, other than NALP's directory site, is there a place that has good information on firms?
Thanks.
-
- Posts: 4249
- Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am
Re: What should I do?
You do care about exit options. That's what you're asking: "how do I position myself to have the best options to exit into L&E or crim defense solo practice?"Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thank you for the helpful replies, everyone. You're definitely correct that I don't care about prestige, vault ranking, or exit options. What firms, outside of the ones I clearly have no shot at (like WC), have the biggest white collar practices?
Also, other than NALP's directory site, is there a place that has good information on firms?
Thanks.
The answer is go to a firm that does the kind of work you want to do, so that you learn how to do it. Your OCS counselors should be able to help you identify such firms; other good sources are Chambers & Partners and Martindale Hubble.
-
- Posts: 466
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:23 am
Re: What should I do?
If you want to do criminal defense doesn't the PD route offer loan forgiveness?
-
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:36 am
Re: What should I do?
To be sure, there is nothing "midsized" about Littler Mendelson. It is huge--largest L & E law firm in the country.smittytron3k wrote:A couple of suggestions:
(1) If you're seriously interested in employment/labor law, there's a ton of midsized, more boutique firms that focus on that practice. Take a look at places like Littler Mendelson, etc.
(2) You should probably still go for Biglaw, but spend some time figuring out which firms have reputations for strong associate development and mentorship. I don't get the sense that you care a ton about prestige or making partner, so picking the best Vault firm or the firm with the highest PPP is not going to help you much. I'd talk to OCS and also look at places that are not quite as highly leveraged.
- Grizz
- Posts: 10564
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Re: What should I do?
Basically no one does big firm -> DA/PD. You'll raise some eyebrows. The work you do at a large firm won't resemble DA/PD work basically at all.BeenDidThat wrote:One avenue you may not have thought of (or maybe you did, and didn't want to go that route):
Biglaw 2-3 years --> DA/PD office 2-3 years --> private practice crim defense.
$$$$$ --> Experience --> Dream
Plus there's no way you're gonna want to take the $70k+ pay cut with family, girlfriend, etc. when you've gotten used to the lifestyle.
- Grizz
- Posts: 10564
- Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm
Re: What should I do?
OP, you see yourself doing any plaintiff's work besides L&E and PI?
Last edited by Grizz on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 835
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm
Re: What should I do?
You are too late to do anything but accept your Biglaw offer. Maybe try a more specialized firm for 3LOLCI. Once you start working, just get out as quick as you can/want.
-
- Posts: 5923
- Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm
Re: What should I do?
Take a look at the original post date. OP probably made up his or her mind months ago.c3pO4 wrote:You are too late to do anything but accept your Biglaw offer. Maybe try a more specialized firm for 3LOLCI. Once you start working, just get out as quick as you can/want.
-
- Posts: 835
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:34 pm
Re: What should I do?
lol nice. pwndkeg411 wrote:Take a look at the original post date. OP probably made up his or her mind months ago.c3pO4 wrote:You are too late to do anything but accept your Biglaw offer. Maybe try a more specialized firm for 3LOLCI. Once you start working, just get out as quick as you can/want.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login