Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

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Helmholtz
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:44 am

Why do employers list "requirements" or "preferences" that are obviously ridiculous (e.g. "prefer top 15% and law review" when the average person getting an offer from them has a median GPA and secondary journal position at best)?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:27 am

Helmholtz wrote:Why do employers list "requirements" or "preferences" that are obviously ridiculous (e.g. "prefer top 15% and law review" when the average person getting an offer from them has a median GPA and secondary journal position at best)?


Eh, all HR people do this...even for non-law jobs. It's more of a list of dreams than anything.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:31 am

blowhard wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Why do employers list "requirements" or "preferences" that are obviously ridiculous (e.g. "prefer top 15% and law review" when the average person getting an offer from them has a median GPA and secondary journal position at best)?


Eh, all HR people do this...even for non-law jobs. It's more of a list of dreams than anything.


I just think that it's funnier in the OCI/legal hiring context since OCS documents so blatantly show things to be a farce. I mean, how do you decide on "top 15% + law review preferred" when it's so out of touch with reality? Why not just go all out and do "top 5% preferred, and offer may be contingent on becoming EIC of LR and clerk to a SCOTUS judge."

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:40 am

Helmholtz wrote:
blowhard wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:Why do employers list "requirements" or "preferences" that are obviously ridiculous (e.g. "prefer top 15% and law review" when the average person getting an offer from them has a median GPA and secondary journal position at best)?


Eh, all HR people do this...even for non-law jobs. It's more of a list of dreams than anything.


I just think that it's funnier in the OCI/legal hiring context since OCS documents so blatantly show things to be a farce. I mean, how do you decide on "top 15% + law review preferred" when it's so out of touch with reality? Why not just go all out and do "top 5% preferred, and offer may be contingent on becoming EIC of LR and clerk to a SCOTUS judge."


Its probably because they know that there are top-15% kids that wont bid on them if they don't put that down, and they want to scare away all of the medians who lack moxie.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:47 am

TaipeiMort wrote:Its probably because they know that there are top-15% kids that wont bid on them if they don't put that down.


Then those top-15%s lack moxie. And who wants moxieless law students?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:54 am

LFR, how is the potential default affecting your hiring for 2012 SA positions?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:21 pm

somewhatwayward wrote:LFR, how is the potential default affecting your hiring for 2012 SA positions?


Actually, it's not affecting it at all because we have moved to a 3L fall apprentice program. By moving later in the process, we do not have to guess and hedge our bets about the number of associates we will want to hire in 2013 which is what all firms entering OCI right now are doing. We are working on our numbers for fall 2012 now and making call back decisions for rising 3Ls based on real time client demand.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Renne Walker » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:17 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We are working on our numbers for fall 2012 now and making call back decisions for rising 3Ls based on real time client demand.

In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Heartford » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:22 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We are working on our numbers for fall 2012 now and making call back decisions for rising 3Ls based on real time client demand.

In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.


Is callback time here already? They have some fast OCI at 0L NYU camp, apparently.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:43 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We are working on our numbers for fall 2012 now and making call back decisions for rising 3Ls based on real time client demand.

In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.


Yes. I anticipate hiring more this year than last. This is playing out on the lateral side as well. In the past 2 months, we have hired 8 new laterals and are looking for several more.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:51 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:LFR, how is the potential default affecting your hiring for 2012 SA positions?


Actually, it's not affecting it at all because we have moved to a 3L fall apprentice program. By moving later in the process, we do not have to guess and hedge our bets about the number of associates we will want to hire in 2013 which is what all firms entering OCI right now are doing. We are working on our numbers for fall 2012 now and making call back decisions for rising 3Ls based on real time client demand.


have you heard anything about how the potential default is affecting other firms' plans for hiring?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:56 am

You mentioned this earlier in the thread recruiter; as a rising 2L I have only had the core law school classes. And although I think I have a preference towards litigation, I really haven't done anything related to transactional to know (or not know) whether I would be interested in it. Therefore, I don't want to completely rule out an interest in doing it. How can I express this in an interview without sounding wishy washy?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:40 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: would you prefer receiving a longer writing sample (16 pages) and deciding for yourself how much of it to read, or would you prefer I cut the writing sample down to 5-10 pages and only send you that portion of it? I've heard conflicting advice about this.


Bumping this question in case it got buried.


I would prefer to see the entire document so I can see your full thought process as well as writing style. Especially if I have specifically asked for a writing sample.



On this topic, if we wrote a brief that had two separate and distinct legal issues based off the same set of facts, is it acceptable to only include one section to keep it shorter, with a quick introduction of the facts that the brief is based on?

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Renne Walker
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Renne Walker » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:01 pm

Just checking, in case this thread has moved on by next year.

I will likely carry a contact card (name, cell, email and school), thinking that it could come in handy. Would you recommend including a photo. Every now and then I see photos on business cards (real estate, salespeople, etc.). Photo: yes; no; does not matter.

Same question for the resume, small unobtrusive picture below my signature (and no, nothing like my avatar!). I included a photo in my resume for summer jobs and it worked well, but not sure if this is wise for a legal resume. As always, thank you.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:16 pm

Renne Walker wrote:Just checking, in case this thread has moved on by next year.

I will likely carry a contact card (name, cell, email and school), thinking that it could come in handy. Would you recommend including a photo. Every now and then I see photos on business cards (real estate, salespeople, etc.). Photo: yes; no; does not matter.

Same question for the resume, small unobtrusive picture below my signature (and no, nothing like my avatar!). I included a photo in my resume for summer jobs and it worked well, but not sure if this is wise for a legal resume. As always, thank you.

NYU has what I think is a mandatory resume format.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Emma. » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:33 pm

Renne Walker wrote:Just checking, in case this thread has moved on by next year.

I will likely carry a contact card (name, cell, email and school), thinking that it could come in handy. Would you recommend including a photo. Every now and then I see photos on business cards (real estate, salespeople, etc.). Photo: yes; no; does not matter.

Same question for the resume, small unobtrusive picture below my signature (and no, nothing like my avatar!). I included a photo in my resume for summer jobs and it worked well, but not sure if this is wise for a legal resume. As always, thank you.


I think this is probably a terrible idea.

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Heartford
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Heartford » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:02 pm

Renne Walker wrote:Just checking, in case this thread has moved on by next year.

I will likely carry a contact card (name, cell, email and school), thinking that it could come in handy. Would you recommend including a photo. Every now and then I see photos on business cards (real estate, salespeople, etc.). Photo: yes; no; does not matter.

Same question for the resume, small unobtrusive picture below my signature (and no, nothing like my avatar!). I included a photo in my resume for summer jobs and it worked well, but not sure if this is wise for a legal resume. As always, thank you.


Having a business card as a law student is douchey enough as it is (see the many threads on TLS on this subject); adding a photo to a business card is just plain trashy. We've actually laughed out loud at photo-business cards at my summer office. Same with photo on the resume. Unprofessional and amateurish move, IMO.

Rule of thumb: It's a conservative profession. This means that when it comes to things like resumes, business cards, style of dress, or other outward appearances, you should basically just be doing what everyone else is doing.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Renne Walker » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:23 pm

Message received. Burning all photo ideas. I will keep a photo only for a picture ID! Thanks all.

Also, thanks for the heads-up on the mandatory resume format.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:31 am

Lawfirmrecruiter: I have a noticeable lisp. People don't have trouble understanding me, but there's no missing it. Would that be likely to affect my biglaw employment prospects? Please be honest - I'm about to apply to law schools, so it's not too late.

I'm also a bit old (will be 32 when I start) with a slight English accent and an unusual background, but I won't get started asking questions about all of that.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawgod » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:26 pm

If you have a letter of recommendation from your summer employer (major corporation), what would you do with that? Can you bring it to a screening interview?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby goodolgil » Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Lawfirmrecruiter: I have a noticeable lisp. People don't have trouble understanding me, but there's no missing it. Would that be likely to affect my biglaw employment prospects? Please be honest - I'm about to apply to law schools, so it's not too late.

I'm also a bit old (will be 32 when I start) with a slight English accent and an unusual background, but I won't get started asking questions about all of that.


Do you really think a law firm recruiter who has identified the firm he/she works for is going to tell you someone's voice would affect his/her hiring decisions?

While it's possible one day that you could have some asshole interviewer who won't hire you because of your lisp, it's not something that should stop you from applying to law school.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Johnathanrs » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:12 am

This question is in regards to hypothetical stuff.

Suppose you have four candidates from T1 schools:

University of Virginia T14 9th
Cornell T14 12th

Washington University in St. Louis T20 18th
University of Georgia T50 35th

And they all graduate with the same GPA top 20%. Does the school prestige/ranking matter at this point? Or is it more based on finding a good fit with what they have done while attending law school and more personality?

I am asking because I would like to know how you look at the following schools in regards to hiring due to costs/scholarship offers. If it is worth attending the T14 simply for better hiring prospects? I am aware that the school, "looks better on paper" but how much does this really matter as long as they did good in the school and is a T1? (I know it doesn't sound very relevant or trivial, but this could be the difference of costing or saving 50k.) Would you say the 50k is justified from the T14 in this hypothetical scenario?

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby The Valkyrie » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:14 am

Can you help me find a job?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby NE1410S » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:54 pm

I'm going to a law career fair in September, and the fair does not do the normal "preselect" routine. Every candidate is free to talk to any firm at the fair. Nineteen national firms with offices located in my desired legal market will be at the fair. I know that the recruiters at the fair will most likely not work out of the office located in my desired legal market, and I don't want my resume to get lost in the shuffle.

Question: Should I contact the local office at each firm to let them know that I will be attending the fair?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:54 pm

Johnathanrs wrote:This question is in regards to hypothetical stuff.

Suppose you have four candidates from T1 schools:

University of Virginia T14 9th
Cornell T14 12th

Washington University in St. Louis T20 18th
University of Georgia T50 35th

And they all graduate with the same GPA top 20%. Does the school prestige/ranking matter at this point? Or is it more based on finding a good fit with what they have done while attending law school and more personality?

I am asking because I would like to know how you look at the following schools in regards to hiring due to costs/scholarship offers. If it is worth attending the T14 simply for better hiring prospects? I am aware that the school, "looks better on paper" but how much does this really matter as long as they did good in the school and is a T1? (I know it doesn't sound very relevant or trivial, but this could be the difference of costing or saving 50k.) Would you say the 50k is justified from the T14 in this hypothetical scenario?


Without more info this is hard to answer because it would really be on a sliding scale. While the higher ranked school may get you noticed, we would also consider personality and reason for choosing our market/firm.




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