Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

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KMaine
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby KMaine » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:13 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Does playing a Varsity sport in Undergrad give a WE type boost or is it less/different?


Varsity sports shows that you are a team player and can work well with others. Always gives a boost.


You clearly have not met some of the people on my college baseball team.

03121202698008
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:04 am

nymario wrote:You should not use that as a sample. At all.


What's your logic on this? Using published opinions is commonplace for judicial interns.
Or was this refering to the academic writing sample?
Last edited by 03121202698008 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nymario
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby nymario » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:24 am

blowhard wrote:
nymario wrote:You should not use that as a sample. At all.


What's your login on this? Using published opinions is commonplace for judicial interns.
Or was this refering to the academic writing sample?


See the discussion here:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=125307&p=3290461

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ndirish2010
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:44 am

blowhard wrote:
nymario wrote:You should not use that as a sample. At all.


What's your login on this? Using published opinions is commonplace for judicial interns.
Or was this refering to the academic writing sample?


At the Michigan COA, interns and clerks are NOT allowed to use proposed opinions as writing samples except if applying to another judge on the Court or the Michigan Supreme Court.

03121202698008
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:16 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
nymario wrote:You should not use that as a sample. At all.


What's your login on this? Using published opinions is commonplace for judicial interns.
Or was this refering to the academic writing sample?


At the Michigan COA, interns and clerks are NOT allowed to use proposed opinions as writing samples except if applying to another judge on the Court or the Michigan Supreme Court.


Proposed, but published are usually acceptable (at least they are for the Michigan SC). I also feel like a CoA opinion is a little different than a district court order. A lower court order/opinion is a lot more of here is the law, apply to the facts, versus what interpreting the law which is far more controversial. My judge doesn't even use bench memos.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:27 pm

blowhard wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:
blowhard wrote:
nymario wrote:You should not use that as a sample. At all.


What's your login on this? Using published opinions is commonplace for judicial interns.
Or was this refering to the academic writing sample?


At the Michigan COA, interns and clerks are NOT allowed to use proposed opinions as writing samples except if applying to another judge on the Court or the Michigan Supreme Court.


Proposed, but published are usually acceptable (at least they are for the Michigan SC). I also feel like a CoA opinion is a little different than a district court order. A lower court order/opinion is a lot more of here is the law, apply to the facts, versus what interpreting the law which is far more controversial. My judge doesn't even use bench memos.



You could be right about that. Are you at the Michigan SC? If so I'm 2 floors below you haha. I'm using a bench memo I wrote for a case where the opinion was published (which I mostly wrote, but some editing was done).

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:29 pm

2L, below median at T2 in NYC area, surprisingly made it to Moot Court. Two really bad grades, everything else average, save for excellent legal writing grades. Will do anything that pays (and requires a JD). Advice?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

03121202698008
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:30 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:You could be right about that. Are you at the Michigan SC? If so I'm 2 floors below you haha. I'm using a bench memo I wrote for a case where the opinion was published (which I mostly wrote, but some editing was done).
No, district court, but I carpool with two people who are.

Oddly my judge went the other way, I wrote a bench memo due to the complexity of the case and he wouldn't let me use it...he insisted on the opinion which was my memo minus some stuff. (I feel like he didn't want public how what he rejected/how he came to his decision.)

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:11 pm

Should writing samples go out with initial mailings or only provided if they are requested? I am sending a cover letter and resume to a bunch of firms and don't know if I should include a writing sample right away.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:2L, below median at T2 in NYC area, surprisingly made it to Moot Court. Two really bad grades, everything else average, save for excellent legal writing grades. Will do anything that pays (and requires a JD). Advice?


You are probably below the requirements for BigLaw but still have a good chance at finding a legal position. Network as much as possible with smaller firms and keep working on your grades.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Should writing samples go out with initial mailings or only provided if they are requested? I am sending a cover letter and resume to a bunch of firms and don't know if I should include a writing sample right away.


If you are talking about a blind mass mailing, I would suggest waiting to send the writing sample until you are asked for it. The firm may have a specific type of sample they are looking for.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:43 pm

Earlier in the thread you mentioned noting a significant improvement in GPA from 1L to 2L on your resume, how would one do that?

Thanks for the great thread!

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Earlier in the thread you mentioned noting a significant improvement in GPA from 1L to 2L on your resume, how would one do that?

Thanks for the great thread!


Just include two separate entries on your resume and explain the increase in the cover letter.

Example:

1L GPA- xxx; 2L GPA - xxx

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: would you prefer receiving a longer writing sample (16 pages) and deciding for yourself how much of it to read, or would you prefer I cut the writing sample down to 5-10 pages and only send you that portion of it? I've heard conflicting advice about this.


Bumping this question in case it got buried.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: would you prefer receiving a longer writing sample (16 pages) and deciding for yourself how much of it to read, or would you prefer I cut the writing sample down to 5-10 pages and only send you that portion of it? I've heard conflicting advice about this.


Bumping this question in case it got buried.


I would prefer to see the entire document so I can see your full thought process as well as writing style. Especially if I have specifically asked for a writing sample.

anonymcoffee
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby anonymcoffee » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:07 pm

how do you see a student with a below median GPA who attends a job fair? Is it worth the while for the student to talk w/ the firm at their table or is it a waste of time? Is the recruiter set in their decision once he/she sees the GPA? Should I let them know about the GPA immediately to save everyone time...how do I even bring that up at a tabling event? signed up for a job fair before my grades came out and I don't want to be a no-show but at the same time, I am embarrassed to attend/wonder if it is worth it.

bmic
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby bmic » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:22 pm

Hey, sorry if this was asked already, but I have a question in regards to the writing sample. I did 2 briefs second semester, on the first I got an A and I liked my arguments and I am like the second less (I got a B+ and I didn't feel that I had very interesting arguments). The problem is that the first brief was like the warm-up one so we didn't do everything like the table of authorities, statement of the case, etc.

So should I:
A) Work on the first one a lot more should I work on my writing sample a lot and add these things
B) Edit my 2nd one in accordance with the comments from my LRW professor
C) Just edit my first one in accordance with my LRW professor's comments and not worry about not having things like the statement of the case?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:29 pm

anonymcoffee wrote:how do you see a student with a below median GPA who attends a job fair? Is it worth the while for the student to talk w/ the firm at their table or is it a waste of time? Is the recruiter set in their decision once he/she sees the GPA? Should I let them know about the GPA immediately to save everyone time...how do I even bring that up at a tabling event? signed up for a job fair before my grades came out and I don't want to be a no-show but at the same time, I am embarrassed to attend/wonder if it is worth it.


While it will be an uphill battle, attending these events are always worth it, even if it is just to get comfortable talking to people about yourself. Don't lead with your GPA- start by introducing yourself and asking about the firm. Like I have said before, you never know where those connections will lead.

Coolgrnmen
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Coolgrnmen » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:21 pm

Coolgrnmen wrote:
GeePee wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Writing sample question: would you prefer receiving a longer writing sample (16 pages) and deciding for yourself how much of it to read, or would you prefer I cut the writing sample down to 5-10 pages and only send you that portion of it? I've heard conflicting advice about this.

Not to eclipse the previous question, but on the topic of writing samples, are academic samples appropriate? Would a note or case comment be frowned upon if submitted?


To add-on, I'm interning for a fed. judge. If I write a decision for the judge and it is published verbatim how I wrote it, 100% my work with no edits, should I mention that when using the sample or should I just let it be?


@lawfirmrecruiter, nymario says I should not use this as a writing sample at all. Could you give me your perspective being an actual recruiter?

nymario
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby nymario » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:27 am

Coolgrnmen wrote:
@lawfirmrecruiter, nymario says I should not use this as a writing sample at all. Could you give me your perspective being an actual recruiter?


Did you get explicit (read: written) permission from the judge? If so, you might be ok. But I wouldn't just "use it". I am also interested in lfr's take though.

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Cupidity
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Cupidity » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:32 am

nymario wrote:
Coolgrnmen wrote:
@lawfirmrecruiter, nymario says I should not use this as a writing sample at all. Could you give me your perspective being an actual recruiter?


Did you get explicit (read: written) permission from the judge? If so, you might be ok. But I wouldn't just "use it". I am also interested in lfr's take though.


I'm getting a bit confused on this.

If I have permission to use an order I authored, should I use it? It sort of sounds like, even with permission, a judicial order isn't a good piece to display?

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icouldbuyu
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby icouldbuyu » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:44 am

Would taking an IB summer analyst position during 1L summer significantly hurt my chances during 2L OCI?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:17 am

nymario wrote:
Coolgrnmen wrote:
@lawfirmrecruiter, nymario says I should not use this as a writing sample at all. Could you give me your perspective being an actual recruiter?


Did you get explicit (read: written) permission from the judge? If so, you might be ok. But I wouldn't just "use it". I am also interested in lfr's take though.


I would definitely ask the judge for permission first but I see no reason not to use an order you wrote. If you have done a good job, the judge should have no problem with you using it and it actually serves as a kind of recommendation as well.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:20 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
nymario wrote:
Coolgrnmen wrote:
@lawfirmrecruiter, nymario says I should not use this as a writing sample at all. Could you give me your perspective being an actual recruiter?


Did you get explicit (read: written) permission from the judge? If so, you might be ok. But I wouldn't just "use it". I am also interested in lfr's take though.


I would definitely ask the judge for permission first but I see no reason not to use an order you wrote. If you have done a good job, the judge should have no problem with you using it and it actually serves as a kind of recommendation as well.


What are your thoughts on using a judicial opinion you drafted, but that was slightly edited by clerks in the office? Assuming the judge is happy to allow you to use it as a writing sample, is it still acceptable to submit a writing sample that you acknowledge was slightly edited (albeit just a few stylistic things)?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
nymario wrote:
Coolgrnmen wrote:
@lawfirmrecruiter, nymario says I should not use this as a writing sample at all. Could you give me your perspective being an actual recruiter?


Did you get explicit (read: written) permission from the judge? If so, you might be ok. But I wouldn't just "use it". I am also interested in lfr's take though.


I would definitely ask the judge for permission first but I see no reason not to use an order you wrote. If you have done a good job, the judge should have no problem with you using it and it actually serves as a kind of recommendation as well.


What are your thoughts on using a judicial opinion you drafted, but that was slightly edited by clerks in the office? Assuming the judge is happy to allow you to use it as a writing sample, is it still acceptable to submit a writing sample that you acknowledge was slightly edited (albeit just a few stylistic things)?


I think this would be fine as long as the edits by others were only minor.




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