Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

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Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:56 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I posted this in another thread but I'd love to get your thoughts on it, too:

The Facts:

1. Firm is in my target (secondary) market.
2. The firm dropped out of my OCI
3. I interviewed there for a 1L gig (summer) and got dinged.
4. I really liked the firm.
5. I will be in that market in ONE WEEK.
6. They are participating in our resume collect.

The questions:

1. Should I email updated trans/letter/resume to the recruiter and tell them that I'll be in town soon if they would like me to come in?
1a. If yes, HOW should I phrase things?

2. Should I also submit through resume collect?

Anything I'm missing?


1. Yes. I would mention that you had the opportunity to meet them last year and you were impressed with their firm. Then say you will be in town and woul like to schedule another meeting if possible.

2. Yes.



Thank you! Did this and immediately got a call for a CB. Can I send you flowers? Chocolate? Seriously, though: Thanks.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:12 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:Changing the paragraph would probably be enough, but I can't say definitively without seeing your letter. You just don't want it to read like this:

Dear XX:

I am interested in X firm and really want to work in X city. I am wonderful because of ABC. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

I know you all are sending out thousands of letters but they should at least sort of sound like you are actually addressing it to me or my firm.

That said, cover letters can either be part of the e-mail body or attached as a pdf. If you include them in your e-mail text, please make sure they are as formal as they would be in a letter. Also, if you attach them as a pdf, be sure to put some explanation of what is enclosed in the body of the e-mail. I can't stand to get a completely empty e-mail from a candidate with only attachments. I wonder if it is spam or a virus and I tend to delete without opening them . . .

thank you very much

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:18 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gibby
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby gibby » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:04 pm

Thank you so very much for answering our questions. This is a two-part question, and the second party may be silly, but here goes.

1. With 3L mass mailing, does it make more sense to physically mail resume and cover letter or email it?
2. If email, does it make sense to include the cover letter as the text of the email as well as attach? Or should the text of the email be a short explanation of what is attached?

Thanks.

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Heartford
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Heartford » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:23 pm

gibby wrote:Thank you so very much for answering our questions. This is a two-part question, and the second party may be silly, but here goes.

1. With 3L mass mailing, does it make more sense to physically mail resume and cover letter or email it?
2. If email, does it make sense to include the cover letter as the text of the email as well as attach? Or should the text of the email be a short explanation of what is attached?

Thanks.


The second part is silly, but not for the reason you think. look two posts above yours.

the L.Rev. word
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby the L.Rev. word » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:09 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
solotee wrote:What are some of the reasons summer associates were no offered at your firm after spending the summer with your firm?


The biggest problem here is the length of the summer cycle. It is really hard for a business to predict out what our hiring needs are 2 years in advance and what practice areas will need new associates. If the end of summer comes and we don't feel like there will be enough work, we can't make offers.

Other than that, it is the obvious reasons. Some students make really poor decisions during a summer. I try to counsel them if they are making bad decisions, but if they don't listen, they don't listen.


Can you elaborate on what kinds of poor decisions people make as a summer that can lead to a no offer?

Fantastic thread by the way, thanks for taking the time to do this.


Hmm. Let's see, just off the top of my head:

1. Drunk at events
2. Skip work the next day because drunk at previous event
3. Treat staff poorly
4. Dress inappropriately (ladies, really watch those skirts please)
5. Don't finish a project and don't tell the attorney why
6. Act like you are entitled to a position and that you are the smartest person in the world
7. Turn down projects multiple times when I know that you are only working on one thing
8. Tell the attorneys you are too busy to help them
9. Tell the attorneys that need help that you really are not that interested in their area and would prefer to do something else


Regarding the skirts, do they have to go past the knee, or is just above the knee an OK length? (Currently doing my interview suit shopping) .. Thanks!

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:00 am

the L.Rev. word wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Can you elaborate on what kinds of poor decisions people make as a summer that can lead to a no offer?

Fantastic thread by the way, thanks for taking the time to do this.


Hmm. Let's see, just off the top of my head:

1. Drunk at events
2. Skip work the next day because drunk at previous event
3. Treat staff poorly
4. Dress inappropriately (ladies, really watch those skirts please)
5. Don't finish a project and don't tell the attorney why
6. Act like you are entitled to a position and that you are the smartest person in the world
7. Turn down projects multiple times when I know that you are only working on one thing
8. Tell the attorneys you are too busy to help them
9. Tell the attorneys that need help that you really are not that interested in their area and would prefer to do something else


Regarding the skirts, do they have to go past the knee, or is just above the knee an OK length? (Currently doing my interview suit shopping) .. Thanks![/quote]

Either right at the knee or below. Think conservative.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:40 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have a question more about work experience/advanced degrees. You say they give you a "boost," and yet you say you typically only consider people with top 1/3 grades. Does the boost from work experience and a related Master's degree (the kind of experience that had you working for the very clients of Biglaw firms) let you consider people from outside the top 1/3? Or does it only amplify your chances of getting an interview if you are already within the top 1/3?

I ask because I am a median student at a school at the lower end of the T20, but I have a graduate degree and related work experience with Fortune 500 companies. I want to go into the type of law that is directly applicable to my work experience. I don't struggle with the material or anything, and my work ethic is on par with those that finished in the top 5%, but I just haven't been able to "get" law school exams. I am doing everything I can to demonstrate a commitment to the type of law I want to practice: my 1L job is a pretty good one that is mostly relevant, I am taking fall classes in the area, and I am starting a student group related to that area of the law. Do median grades at a very competitive school sink my chances of getting an interview at a firm like yours?

Please be brutally honest. I know anything's possible, and I know I would benefit from networking. But I'm more interested in what's probable.


You are not sunk but you will need to work hard to get an interview. I think your experience can help you but you will need to be able to show how that experience translates to the legal side. I would be happy to look at your resume if you want more specific advice. Just send me a PM.


Thanks...PM sent.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:07 am

What do you think about diversity job fair?
Are they real?

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rocon7383
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby rocon7383 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:16 am

Thank you for this thread, it is incredibly helpful. What advice would you give a T2 student, in a crowded market, who wants big law? For instance, do you even look at T2s? Do you have a general grade cutoff point if you do? Also, if you do not do OCI at said T2 is there even the slightest chance of someone from there being hired?

Brutal honesty is greatly appreciated

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:51 pm

i was wondering, do you think it is at all unethical to take a first year summer position with a firm that you would work for later only if other things didn't pan out?

i'm not lying when i say that i'm open to working in my hometown - i like the town, and in this economy, you have to keep all options on the table. i will, however, be aiming for other markets, but i am currently trying to network with attorneys in my hometown, with an eye towards possibly working there 1L summer.

is this bad?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What do you think about diversity job fair?
Are they real?


They are real and I like them.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:47 pm

rocon7383 wrote:Thank you for this thread, it is incredibly helpful. What advice would you give a T2 student, in a crowded market, who wants big law? For instance, do you even look at T2s? Do you have a general grade cutoff point if you do? Also, if you do not do OCI at said T2 is there even the slightest chance of someone from there being hired?

Brutal honesty is greatly appreciated


We do look at T2 students. As I have mentioned before, we do not have a hard and fast grade cutoff but the lower ranked the school, the higher the GPA will need to be. If you are interested in firms that are not coming on campus, try to find an alumni from your school at that firm to help with an introduction. Otherwise, e-mail the recruiter directly and express your interest.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:47 pm

My problem:
i entered my bids and attached my transcript and resume.
Problem is is that in my transcript, i did not put the summer classes i am currently taking and the fall classes i am signed up for. Rather all i have on the transcript is my fall and spring semester and final GPA. to top it off, i transferred from FT to PT, so it looks like i have low number of credits.

However I do have my GPA and class rank on my resume.

I have good grades, but my worries are that employers, when picking which students to interview, will look at my resume and be like wtf, why such little credits, OR they will think that an evening student mistakenly got stuck in OCI w/o enough credits, and not choose me.

will my mistake with the transcript negatively affect how they view me when selecting who to interview?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:i was wondering, do you think it is at all unethical to take a first year summer position with a firm that you would work for later only if other things didn't pan out?

i'm not lying when i say that i'm open to working in my hometown - i like the town, and in this economy, you have to keep all options on the table. i will, however, be aiming for other markets, but i am currently trying to network with attorneys in my hometown, with an eye towards possibly working there 1L summer.

is this bad?


This is no more unethical than the firm you may have a 1L job with saying they like you but want to consider other students for the 2L class. Firms that have 1L classes understand the flight risk of students so I would not worry about it.

gingersnaps
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby gingersnaps » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:49 pm

Quick question on practice areas. Any tips for picking a practice area that will more likely result in a job offer (obviously, IP is in big demand, but other than that)? Or, more specifically, how do we find out what practice areas the firm has the greatest needs in (call them up and ask)?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My problem:
i entered my bids and attached my transcript and resume.
Problem is is that in my transcript, i did not put the summer classes i am currently taking and the fall classes i am signed up for. Rather all i have on the transcript is my fall and spring semester and final GPA. to top it off, i transferred from FT to PT, so it looks like i have low number of credits.

However I do have my GPA and class rank on my resume.

I have good grades, but my worries are that employers, when picking which students to interview, will look at my resume and be like wtf, why such little credits, OR they will think that an evening student mistakenly got stuck in OCI w/o enough credits, and not choose me.

will my mistake with the transcript negatively affect how they view me when selecting who to interview?


Don't stress about this. From my POV, I look at transcripts as an overall record of your progress and how you did in each class. I am not scrutinizing the number of credit hours you have listed.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:58 pm

What are your thoughts on sending a cover letter to a firm you previously applied to that is substantially similar to the first? I had success with one firm in particular, but chose to go with a different offer for this summer. Does it look lazy to have a letter with paragraphs or sentences verbatim as they were before? Would they even be filed together so that a recruiter or attorney would notice?

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:58 pm

what do firms think when there are small one or two typos on the resume? specifically, I abbreviated the state wrong.

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kalvano
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:05 pm

When is a good time to send out emails to out of state firms? I bet it has been asked before, but since OCI is upon us or almost here, should you wait until after that week to send out emails? Do they get lost in the storm, so to speak? Or would you rather get them during that week so candidates you're interested in can get consideration?

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:13 pm

Does it help much if if I have a semester internship lined up for next fall/spring?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are your thoughts on sending a cover letter to a firm you previously applied to that is substantially similar to the first? I had success with one firm in particular, but chose to go with a different offer for this summer. Does it look lazy to have a letter with paragraphs or sentences verbatim as they were before? Would they even be filed together so that a recruiter or attorney would notice?


I doubt anyone would really notice. Just make sure it is updated with current information. They might expect an explanation as to why you are re-applying when you declined them last year, though.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:what do firms think when there are small one or two typos on the resume? specifically, I abbreviated the state wrong.


No way around it, this is really bad. My attorneys hone in on typos and this can really tank a resume. It doesn't matter how small it is, your resume is your first (and sometimes only) shot at making an impression. Any typo at all sends the message that you don't pay attention to tiny details - which is at the core of being a lawyer. Hate to be so harsh on this, but your resume must be letter perfect.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:49 pm

kalvano wrote:When is a good time to send out emails to out of state firms? I bet it has been asked before, but since OCI is upon us or almost here, should you wait until after that week to send out emails? Do they get lost in the storm, so to speak? Or would you rather get them during that week so candidates you're interested in can get consideration?


Personally, I would rather get them earlier. You simply cannot imagine how many candidates we start screening and receiving information from. When it is all at once, it is a bit overwhelming. Especially if you have a small recruiting office and handle both students and laterals.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:57 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What are your thoughts on sending a cover letter to a firm you previously applied to that is substantially similar to the first? I had success with one firm in particular, but chose to go with a different offer for this summer. Does it look lazy to have a letter with paragraphs or sentences verbatim as they were before? Would they even be filed together so that a recruiter or attorney would notice?


I doubt anyone would really notice. Just make sure it is updated with current information. They might expect an explanation as to why you are re-applying when you declined them last year, though.


Thanks! The recruiter knows why I went another route and asked me to contact them again in August to interview for next year.




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