Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

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Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:48 am

Thank you very much for all your input! Your thread is definitely the most informative and helpful I've seen on this site.

I'm a non-traditional student with law related experience and would appreciate your input regarding how I should approach what I consider to be an unusual situation.

A bit of backstory:

I once owned my own mortgage company and when the financial meltdown in that industry became prolonged, I began an affiliate relationship with a law group specializing in loan modifications. Initial success led to an offer to open and manage a branch (as an intake manager) for the firm. I accepted the offer and within five months we generated over $1M in revenue which made us the firm's top producing office. When my compensation agreement was not honored by the firm, I left and started my own non-attorney company in the same field.

When applying to law school, I made contact with the managing partner of the firm and he agreed to write a letter of recommendation. Several weeks passed and when his letter didn't arrive, I attempted to contact him again and received no response.

My concern is that when it comes time to interview, prospective employers will want to know why I'm unable to get a letter of recommendation from the managing partner that I reported to directly on a daily basis. An associate attorney in my office wrote a letter recommending me for school and I know she would do the same when it comes time for OCI, but it concerns me since she worked in a subordinate capacity at the firm.

Would you have any suggestions how to reconcile what I anticipate will be a disconnect when discussing this issue with a potential employer?

Hope that makes sense...if you have any questions or would like me to clarify or expand on something to help with your suggestion, please let me know.

Thanks again lawschoolrecruiter! This has been weighing on my mind for some time now.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:54 am

Sorry...meant to say lawfirmrecruiter...I'm no good without my morning cup of coffee.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:17 pm

I have a question more about work experience/advanced degrees. You say they give you a "boost," and yet you say you typically only consider people with top 1/3 grades. Does the boost from work experience and a related Master's degree (the kind of experience that had you working for the very clients of Biglaw firms) let you consider people from outside the top 1/3? Or does it only amplify your chances of getting an interview if you are already within the top 1/3?

I ask because I am a median student at a school at the lower end of the T20, but I have a graduate degree and related work experience with Fortune 500 companies. I want to go into the type of law that is directly applicable to my work experience. I don't struggle with the material or anything, and my work ethic is on par with those that finished in the top 5%, but I just haven't been able to "get" law school exams. I am doing everything I can to demonstrate a commitment to the type of law I want to practice: my 1L job is a pretty good one that is mostly relevant, I am taking fall classes in the area, and I am starting a student group related to that area of the law. Do median grades at a very competitive school sink my chances of getting an interview at a firm like yours?

Please be brutally honest. I know anything's possible, and I know I would benefit from networking. But I'm more interested in what's probable.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Renne Walker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:48 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:I saw your question earlier and wanted to think about it a bit before answering. We don't have a communications practice so I can't speak directly to that industry area. However, even ITE, I think you should pursue your area of interest if that is really what you want to do. It is really difficult to change groups later, either within a law firm or as a lateral. If you take a job in a group you don't like just to have a job, you may be in that area for a really long time and end up miserable. That said, you should really think of several practice options you would be happy with in the long term and pursue positions.

I thank you for you taking time to answer my question. Especially since I have found nothing on TLS regarding FCC attorneys.

This field seems interesting and profitable (fees are typically based on 2-5% of the deal). Negotiating contracts, LOIs, NDAs, etc. is appealing. Rarely is there a need for litigation. Granted, aspects of the work is probably mundane, such as keeping clients appraised of changing FCC rules, regs, etc.

Given that the rap against BigLaw are the insane hours, I cannot imagine that a +40 hour work week is typical for an FCC attorney.

I will say, given this economy, I am relieved that I am an OP, rather than someone going into communications law today, since the credit market needs to be in good shape for deals to transpire.

If you run into any tidbits of info regarding FCC attorneys, let ‘er rip. Thx.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:47 am

Would you mind checking PMs? Sent a bit of a personal question and would definitely appreciate some quick advice.

the L.Rev. word
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby the L.Rev. word » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:21 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
glitched wrote:what does it mean to network exactly? do you mean going to events and meeting up with recruiters?


You should meet and talk to as many people as possible - classmates, professors, career services, recruiters in the area, etc. Just introduce yourself and ask advice about the legal market, etc. These connections and conversations will ultimately lead to a job opportunity. This advice goes for everyone, not just transfers.


Good idea/bad idea to email a partner you found on the firm's website who is an alumni of your law school? My school has very loyal alumni, but the only partner is in a different office from the one I'm applying for. Too much of a reach, or couldn't hurt?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:05 pm

In one of your earlier posts you talked about making sure we have a job during 1L summer, would the fact that I decided to try and pass the CPA exam this summer hurt more than help? To give a little more information I'm in the middle of my class at a T1 and on the business journal (couldn't apply for law review because it would have prevented me from being able to take all the parts of the CPA) and came straight from undergrad to law school. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:28 pm

Your thoughts on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=160944 ? Not OP of that thread, but curious.

Small typo in the body of an email to a recruiter: "I am a rising second-year law student at XYZ School of Law interested in summer associate position with ABC." Would you ignore the email (assuming no other errors, person is qualified, etc.)?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:48 pm

One of the firms I worked for last summer gave me a call last week asking me to come in and meet with a few of the attorneys there. I got an offer there after 1L summer but turned it down because i wanted to try a different experience. I still have a good relationship with recruiting and the attorneys at the firm. I'm guessing this is some sort of informal interview type deal? What do you think?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you very much for all your input! Your thread is definitely the most informative and helpful I've seen on this site.

I'm a non-traditional student with law related experience and would appreciate your input regarding how I should approach what I consider to be an unusual situation.

A bit of backstory:

I once owned my own mortgage company and when the financial meltdown in that industry became prolonged, I began an affiliate relationship with a law group specializing in loan modifications. Initial success led to an offer to open and manage a branch (as an intake manager) for the firm. I accepted the offer and within five months we generated over $1M in revenue which made us the firm's top producing office. When my compensation agreement was not honored by the firm, I left and started my own non-attorney company in the same field.

When applying to law school, I made contact with the managing partner of the firm and he agreed to write a letter of recommendation. Several weeks passed and when his letter didn't arrive, I attempted to contact him again and received no response.

My concern is that when it comes time to interview, prospective employers will want to know why I'm unable to get a letter of recommendation from the managing partner that I reported to directly on a daily basis. An associate attorney in my office wrote a letter recommending me for school and I know she would do the same when it comes time for OCI, but it concerns me since she worked in a subordinate capacity at the firm.

Would you have any suggestions how to reconcile what I anticipate will be a disconnect when discussing this issue with a potential employer?

Hope that makes sense...if you have any questions or would like me to clarify or expand on something to help with your suggestion, please let me know.

Thanks again lawschoolrecruiter! This has been weighing on my mind for some time now.


Always steer clear of potential bad references. If your former managing partner is dodging you, I would go with someone else. The associate reference is a better choice here, especially if you worked directly with her.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:47 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you very much for all your input! Your thread is definitely the most informative and helpful I've seen on this site.

I'm a non-traditional student with law related experience and would appreciate your input regarding how I should approach what I consider to be an unusual situation.

A bit of backstory:

I once owned my own mortgage company and when the financial meltdown in that industry became prolonged, I began an affiliate relationship with a law group specializing in loan modifications. Initial success led to an offer to open and manage a branch (as an intake manager) for the firm. I accepted the offer and within five months we generated over $1M in revenue which made us the firm's top producing office. When my compensation agreement was not honored by the firm, I left and started my own non-attorney company in the same field.

When applying to law school, I made contact with the managing partner of the firm and he agreed to write a letter of recommendation. Several weeks passed and when his letter didn't arrive, I attempted to contact him again and received no response.

My concern is that when it comes time to interview, prospective employers will want to know why I'm unable to get a letter of recommendation from the managing partner that I reported to directly on a daily basis. An associate attorney in my office wrote a letter recommending me for school and I know she would do the same when it comes time for OCI, but it concerns me since she worked in a subordinate capacity at the firm.

Would you have any suggestions how to reconcile what I anticipate will be a disconnect when discussing this issue with a potential employer?

Hope that makes sense...if you have any questions or would like me to clarify or expand on something to help with your suggestion, please let me know.

Thanks again lawschoolrecruiter! This has been weighing on my mind for some time now.


Always steer clear of potential bad references. If your former managing partner is dodging you, I would go with someone else. The associate reference is a better choice here, especially if you worked directly with her.


This is good advice, but I'd also like to add that I've never been asked for a letter of recommendation or a list of references when interviewing for a firm job. I don't think it'll be as big an issue as you seem to think, anon poster.
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have a question more about work experience/advanced degrees. You say they give you a "boost," and yet you say you typically only consider people with top 1/3 grades. Does the boost from work experience and a related Master's degree (the kind of experience that had you working for the very clients of Biglaw firms) let you consider people from outside the top 1/3? Or does it only amplify your chances of getting an interview if you are already within the top 1/3?

I ask because I am a median student at a school at the lower end of the T20, but I have a graduate degree and related work experience with Fortune 500 companies. I want to go into the type of law that is directly applicable to my work experience. I don't struggle with the material or anything, and my work ethic is on par with those that finished in the top 5%, but I just haven't been able to "get" law school exams. I am doing everything I can to demonstrate a commitment to the type of law I want to practice: my 1L job is a pretty good one that is mostly relevant, I am taking fall classes in the area, and I am starting a student group related to that area of the law. Do median grades at a very competitive school sink my chances of getting an interview at a firm like yours?

Please be brutally honest. I know anything's possible, and I know I would benefit from networking. But I'm more interested in what's probable.


You are not sunk but you will need to work hard to get an interview. I think your experience can help you but you will need to be able to show how that experience translates to the legal side. I would be happy to look at your resume if you want more specific advice. Just send me a PM.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:47 pm

the L.Rev. word wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
glitched wrote:what does it mean to network exactly? do you mean going to events and meeting up with recruiters?


You should meet and talk to as many people as possible - classmates, professors, career services, recruiters in the area, etc. Just introduce yourself and ask advice about the legal market, etc. These connections and conversations will ultimately lead to a job opportunity. This advice goes for everyone, not just transfers.


Good idea/bad idea to email a partner you found on the firm's website who is an alumni of your law school? My school has very loyal alumni, but the only partner is in a different office from the one I'm applying for. Too much of a reach, or couldn't hurt?


Couldn't hurt. If anything it will get a reference from the partner to the recruiter.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:One of the firms I worked for last summer gave me a call last week asking me to come in and meet with a few of the attorneys there. I got an offer there after 1L summer but turned it down because i wanted to try a different experience. I still have a good relationship with recruiting and the attorneys at the firm. I'm guessing this is some sort of informal interview type deal? What do you think?


Sounds like they are still interested and want to know what you have done this summer. Never hurts to go hear what they have to say.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Your thoughts on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=160944 ? Not OP of that thread, but curious.

Small typo in the body of an email to a recruiter: "I am a rising second-year law student at XYZ School of Law interested in summer associate position with ABC." Would you ignore the email (assuming no other errors, person is qualified, etc.)?


Not terrible and you should not stress about it. While you really don't want typos, at least it wasn't on your resume. You should be fine.

ms2010
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby ms2010 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:01 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:
ms2010 wrote:How often do you actually interview people from resume collects? Any advice you could provide that would increase chances of getting pulled by a firm that is only doing a resume collect and not an actual interview?


Pulling this out as it appears to have gotten lost.

Also - many firms on NALP give out a multi-office form; apply to each office individually when mailing or send all materials to the HQ?

Thank you for your time and help.


Resume Collects - we do a lot of interviewing from resume collects. It is a way for firms to screen candidates but not have to send someone to campus. To up your chances, send a followup e-mail and introduce yourself to the recruiter.

On multi-office form, send to each office and HQ.


When should we follow up? For example, if the OCI deadline is July 25th, do we e-mail the recruiter about a week after? What would we say in such an e-mail? Thanks for your help.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:05 pm

ms2010 wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:
ms2010 wrote:How often do you actually interview people from resume collects? Any advice you could provide that would increase chances of getting pulled by a firm that is only doing a resume collect and not an actual interview?


Pulling this out as it appears to have gotten lost.

Also - many firms on NALP give out a multi-office form; apply to each office individually when mailing or send all materials to the HQ?

Thank you for your time and help.


Resume Collects - we do a lot of interviewing from resume collects. It is a way for firms to screen candidates but not have to send someone to campus. To up your chances, send a followup e-mail and introduce yourself to the recruiter.

On multi-office form, send to each office and HQ.


When should we follow up? For example, if the OCI deadline is July 25th, do we e-mail the recruiter about a week after? What would we say in such an e-mail? Thanks for your help.


Send followups about 2 weeks later and say you wanted to make sure they received your info and you would like the opportunity to discuss qualifications, etc.

Tiresias
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Tiresias » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:40 am

Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us. I know many of us appreciate it a great deal. I was wondering if you had some advice regarding my situation.

I am a 31 year old transfer student. Five years ago, I decided to be a lawyer that would work with a foreign country. I moved to the country, attended university, and served as an English Instructor/Consultant who was assigned to VIP clients (Corporate, Governmental, Military personel). I returned to the United States in order to pursue my legal education. I was accepted at a T2, ranked higher then the 5th percentile, and I am now transfering to a T20.

I feel there are a number of things that may pose as obstacles.

1. My undergrad degree was in the theater arts. I made the transition because I wanted to experience something similar to the theater but more intellectually stimulating. Personally, I feel my theater training is integral to my law school success. There are numerous skills that translated very well into my new field. However, I am concerned that this will raise an eyebrow. I did not attend a prestigious school and only achieved a B+ average. How will a recruiter respond to my undergraduate record? Will it be considered less relevant because I am older?

2. I am transferring to a location where I have no strong connections. I decided on the school because (a) the quality and culture of the school and (b) I know there is a great deal of business activity between the United States and this foreign country. I am concerned that my lack of connections with the area will work against me. I am afraid, given how much I have moved in the past five years, I will be considered a flight risk. What is the best way to address this issue?

3. Generally speaking, how do firms respond to transfers? I understand that we can sell the fact we are hard workers. However, are we at any disadvantage? Also, how should we translate our 1L GPA and rank to the firms requirements for our new school?

Thank you again for all your insights. You have offered us a wonderful opportunity to learn more about this process.

the L.Rev. word
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby the L.Rev. word » Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:07 am

If an employer you are interested in will be at a job fair, should you still mass mail them, or can you assume if they don't select you to interview at the fair they probably won't interview you based on a mass mail, either?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:45 pm

Tiresias wrote:Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us. I know many of us appreciate it a great deal. I was wondering if you had some advice regarding my situation.

I am a 31 year old transfer student. Five years ago, I decided to be a lawyer that would work with a foreign country. I moved to the country, attended university, and served as an English Instructor/Consultant who was assigned to VIP clients (Corporate, Governmental, Military personel). I returned to the United States in order to pursue my legal education. I was accepted at a T2, ranked higher then the 5th percentile, and I am now transfering to a T20.

I feel there are a number of things that may pose as obstacles.

1. My undergrad degree was in the theater arts. I made the transition because I wanted to experience something similar to the theater but more intellectually stimulating. Personally, I feel my theater training is integral to my law school success. There are numerous skills that translated very well into my new field. However, I am concerned that this will raise an eyebrow. I did not attend a prestigious school and only achieved a B+ average. How will a recruiter respond to my undergraduate record? Will it be considered less relevant because I am older?

2. I am transferring to a location where I have no strong connections. I decided on the school because (a) the quality and culture of the school and (b) I know there is a great deal of business activity between the United States and this foreign country. I am concerned that my lack of connections with the area will work against me. I am afraid, given how much I have moved in the past five years, I will be considered a flight risk. What is the best way to address this issue?

3. Generally speaking, how do firms respond to transfers? I understand that we can sell the fact we are hard workers. However, are we at any disadvantage? Also, how should we translate our 1L GPA and rank to the firms requirements for
our new school

Thank you again for all your insights. You have offered us a wonderful opportunity to learn more about this process.


Okay, let's see:

1. Theater is actually not a bad UG at all. It probably helps a great deal in a litigation practice, actually.

2. You have moved around a bit and that may be an obstacle. However, you committed to your law school and will be there for 3 years. Become involved in your community and prove that you want to create ties there now.

3. Different firms view transfers differently. Personally, I see no problems. Just list out your 1L grades with the school you previously attended and go from there.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:46 pm

the L.Rev. word wrote:If an employer you are interested in will be at a job fair, should you still mass mail them, or can you assume if they don't select you to interview at the fair they probably won't interview you based on a mass mail, either?


No harm in doing both. Goes back to the squeaky wheel principle. It shows that you truly are interested in their firm and are diligently pursuing them.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:55 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
the L.Rev. word wrote:If an employer you are interested in will be at a job fair, should you still mass mail them, or can you assume if they don't select you to interview at the fair they probably won't interview you based on a mass mail, either?


No harm in doing both. Goes back to the squeaky wheel principle. It shows that you truly are interested in their firm and are diligently pursuing them.



does this advice hold true for a firm coming to OCI? I will be in my hometown, a secondary market, for the month of August. I'd love to get 1 or 2 interviews in in a less hectic environment before OCI starts. Is it inappropriate to request an interview before OCI, even if I may bid on that firm anyway? (the timing is difficult - I will bid on them this week, maybe send an interview request next week, find out if I got an OCI interview with them the following week..)

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
the L.Rev. word wrote:If an employer you are interested in will be at a job fair, should you still mass mail them, or can you assume if they don't select you to interview at the fair they probably won't interview you based on a mass mail, either?


No harm in doing both. Goes back to the squeaky wheel principle. It shows that you truly are interested in their firm and are diligently pursuing them.



does this advice hold true for a firm coming to OCI? I will be in my hometown, a secondary market, for the month of August. I'd love to get 1 or 2 interviews in in a less hectic environment before OCI starts. Is it inappropriate to request an interview before OCI, even if I may bid on that firm anyway? (the timing is difficult - I will bid on them this week, maybe send an interview request next week, find out if I got an OCI interview with them the following week..)


It does hold true. It may not lead to anything but it does not hurt to go ahead and contact firms, especially if it is in your hometown and you will be there anyway.

gingersnaps
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby gingersnaps » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:38 pm

any tips for coming up with bidlists for firms? i'm top 25% at a school ranked in the 40s and have no clue where I should realistically be bidding

nymario
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby nymario » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:09 pm

gingersnaps wrote:any tips for coming up with bidlists for firms? i'm top 25% at a school ranked in the 40s and have no clue where I should realistically be bidding


You realistically should be mass mailing mid-law firms and thinking about public interest. BigLaw isn't out, especially if you have a great resume or connections, but you should manage your expectations with those statistics. Bid firms that aren't historically very grade selective (there is some good info in active threads in this very forum such as the one you started viewtopic.php?f=23&t=161106)




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