Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit Forum

[mjitbswyd]

Thank you for the thread.

I am working at a biglaw at one of its overseas office (1L summer). Will you ask whether they offered me to come back next summer? Should I ask the managing partner to write a letter saying we had a mutual understanding before the job began that I would not come back so they did not plan to offer me from the beginning (which is true)?

thank you

I would probably ask if you are planning to go back to your 1L firm, if not overseas, then to an office here in the States. If you say no, I will want to know why.

Thanks! Just to clarify, so I don't have to worry about the no-offer then?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

What do you think of lawyers with big/strong personalities? Sometimes I feel like I need to tone it down to fit in (lawyers are dull).

Completely depends on the practice group you are interested in. We have a couple of groups that would scare a wall flower to death and others that would never be able to handle a big personality. My guess is that you are leaning towards litigation??

Yes, litigation. I have a bit of ADD as well

An ADD loud litigator ... Sounds like a perfect BigLaw match! You'll be fine ...

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Thank you for the thread.

I am working at a biglaw at one of its overseas office (1L summer). Will you ask whether they offered me to come back next summer? Should I ask the managing partner to write a letter saying we had a mutual understanding before the job began that I would not come back so they did not plan to offer me from the beginning (which is true)?

thank you

I would probably ask if you are planning to go back to your 1L firm, if not overseas, then to an office here in the States. If you say no, I will want to know why.

Thanks! Just to clarify, so I don't have to worry about the no-offer then?

Nope. Just be prepared to answer honestly if you are asked.

[Danteshek]

What do you think of lawyers with big/strong personalities? Sometimes I feel like I need to tone it down to fit in (lawyers are dull).

Completely depends on the practice group you are interested in. We have a couple of groups that would scare a wall flower to death and others that would never be able to handle a big personality. My guess is that you are leaning towards litigation??

Yes, litigation. I have a bit of ADD as well

An ADD loud litigator ... Sounds like a perfect BigLaw match! You'll be fine ...

Not big law. I don't have the grades or the SA. I'm going into plaintiff work. I want to represent whistleblowers... maybe securities class actions

[Anonymous User]

Contrary to popular belief, isn't what you during during 1L summer and before you begin 2L pretty important? I'm aware of the challenges this economy presents, but still. Almost like a "boost" for candidacy (depending on what you did) OCI come August?

[timbs4339]

For 3Ls, is the time to apply to firms the July before 3L year, or in the spring when we're about to graduate?

I know of some 3Ls from the class of 2011 at my school getting picked up by big firms right around when they're about to take the bar. And this would make sense with what you said about the broken hiring model- hiring when there's a need.

Thanks!

Timing for 3L hiring really depends on the firm. Unless the firm specifically hires from the 3L class for it's incoming associates (like mine), your best bet is to start sending letters and contacting firms in January of your third year. Firms will have set annual budgets and know where the gaps for 3Ls are at that time. The next wave for 3Ls happens right around now, after graduation during bar season.

When the firm decides it wants to hire 3Ls, say in January, do they go back to a file of current 3Ls who mailed earlier, or do they start with the people who have mailed them more recently?

Also, would you say more firms coming to 3L OCI are only interested in hiring 3Ls who worked at a firm the summer before and are looking to move firms, or more are willing to hire people who did not do a 2L SA?

[Anonymous User]

As far as the diversity boost goes, what if an applicant is half-URM, half-white, half-black/half-white, half-asian/half-white, but looks white? How does that affect your decision?

As far as how the candidate would be classified for diversity purposes, I suppose it would depend on how the student self-selects. We don't have diversity quotas, so I'm not sure what you mean by this question or what you are looking for. Please clarify.

I'm a different poster but I'm in a very similar situation and I understand what the first person is trying to get at. I am half-white, half-Hispanic. Due to my father being white, I have a white last name but a relatively Hispanic first name. White people assume I am white and Hispanic people assume I am Hispanic.

The running joke within minority student groups at my school is that if you are hired by a law firm you need to be ready to show up in brochures touting the firm's commitment to diversity. The implication being that firms like to show off their diverse employees. However, mixed race students such as the OP and myself wonder if our "diversity" is worth as much to a firm given that we legitimately pass off as being white.

I understand this may come off like a silly issue, and I'm only speaking for myself here, but mixed race individuals face a slightly different battle in our society. Oftentimes, some minorities aren't as accepting of mixed race individuals, especially those individuals whose appearance may allow them to pass off as white. At the same time, you never truly feel white.

On a slightly related note, my family lived in Latin America until I was eight years old and I was raised in a bilingual household. I speak both languages natively. I can power my way through a Spanish document but I can't write in Spanish. Is it worth noting on my resume that I am conversational in Spanish or will that only serve to highlight that I can't write in Spanish?

OP Here. This is exactly my question. I'm culturally identified with being a URM and am half, but many whites just assume I'm white. Do firms, or your firm in particular, hire URMs because they add to the stats or because their picture can be taken?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

For 3Ls, is the time to apply to firms the July before 3L year, or in the spring when we're about to graduate?

I know of some 3Ls from the class of 2011 at my school getting picked up by big firms right around when they're about to take the bar. And this would make sense with what you said about the broken hiring model- hiring when there's a need.

Thanks!

Timing for 3L hiring really depends on the firm. Unless the firm specifically hires from the 3L class for it's incoming associates (like mine), your best bet is to start sending letters and contacting firms in January of your third year. Firms will have set annual budgets and know where the gaps for 3Ls are at that time. The next wave for 3Ls happens right around now, after graduation during bar season.

When the firm decides it wants to hire 3Ls, say in January, do they go back to a file of current 3Ls who mailed earlier, or do they start with the people who have mailed them more recently?

Also, would you say more firms coming to 3L OCI are only interested in hiring 3Ls who worked at a firm the summer before and are looking to move firms, or more are willing to hire people who did not do a 2L SA?

If I were looking at 3Ls in January, I would start with the more recent people on the assumption that the earlier ones probably landed somewhere else. Also, the squeaky wheel principle applies in this situation.

We are hiring 3Ls this fall outside OCI altogether so it is hard to say what others are looking for. We look for solid candidates that want to work in our firm in our city. while I will look at what you did over the summer, I am also considering what an awful market you are facing. Some candidates we accept will have worked in firms, some will not.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

As far as the diversity boost goes, what if an applicant is half-URM, half-white, half-black/half-white, half-asian/half-white, but looks white? How does that affect your decision?

As far as how the candidate would be classified for diversity purposes, I suppose it would depend on how the student self-selects. We don't have diversity quotas, so I'm not sure what you mean by this question or what you are looking for. Please clarify.

I'm a different poster but I'm in a very similar situation and I understand what the first person is trying to get at. I am half-white, half-Hispanic. Due to my father being white, I have a white last name but a relatively Hispanic first name. White people assume I am white and Hispanic people assume I am Hispanic.

The running joke within minority student groups at my school is that if you are hired by a law firm you need to be ready to show up in brochures touting the firm's commitment to diversity. The implication being that firms like to show off their diverse employees. However, mixed race students such as the OP and myself wonder if our "diversity" is worth as much to a firm given that we legitimately pass off as being white.

I understand this may come off like a silly issue, and I'm only speaking for myself here, but mixed race individuals face a slightly different battle in our society. Oftentimes, some minorities aren't as accepting of mixed race individuals, especially those individuals whose appearance may allow them to pass off as white. At the same time, you never truly feel white.

On a slightly related note, my family lived in Latin America until I was eight years old and I was raised in a bilingual household. I speak both languages natively. I can power my way through a Spanish document but I can't write in Spanish. Is it worth noting on my resume that I am conversational in Spanish or will that only serve to highlight that I can't write in Spanish?

OP Here. This is exactly my question. I'm culturally identified with being a URM and am half, but many whites just assume I'm white. Do firms, or your firm in particular, hire URMs because they add to the stats or because their picture can be taken?

We hire all candidates for their qualification and value they will bring to our clients and the firm - not for a photo op.

[Anonymous User]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

Seriously? Probably depends on how conservative the culture of the firms you are interviewing with are.

[robert85]

any tips for discovering firms to apply to in smaller legal markets?

[Anonymous User]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

Seriously? Probably depends on how conservative the culture of the firms you are interviewing with are.

Unfortunately, yes, seriously. I haven't had any work done in almost 10 years. Got it all very young, and very quickly. I've considered laser removal at least for my hands, since I could easily keep the rest hidden. Surprisingly, I've worked in management for a top 10 ranked (and no, not Wal Mart) Fortune 500 company for the past several years. I'm no stranger to having to overcome this perceived obstacle, but was just curious if that obstacle is substantially larger pursuing a legal career.

Thanks for the great thread!

[Anonymous User]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

Seriously? Probably depends on how conservative the culture of the firms you are interviewing with are.

Unfortunately, yes, seriously. I haven't had any work done in almost 10 years. Got it all very young, and very quickly. I've considered laser removal at least for my hands, since I could easily keep the rest hidden. Surprisingly, I've worked in management for a top 10 ranked (and no, not Wal Mart) Fortune 500 company for the past several years. I'm no stranger to having to overcome this perceived obstacle, but was just curious if that obstacle is substantially larger pursuing a legal career.

Thanks for the great thread!

Get your hands lasered pronto. I've got about 20% of my body tattooed; nothing shows in a long sleeve shirt, but if and when people find out the reaction varies between negative and offended.

[Anonymous User]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

Seriously? Probably depends on how conservative the culture of the firms you are interviewing with are.

Unfortunately, yes, seriously. I haven't had any work done in almost 10 years. Got it all very young, and very quickly. I've considered laser removal at least for my hands, since I could easily keep the rest hidden. Surprisingly, I've worked in management for a top 10 ranked (and no, not Wal Mart) Fortune 500 company for the past several years. I'm no stranger to having to overcome this perceived obstacle, but was just curious if that obstacle is substantially larger pursuing a legal career.

Thanks for the great thread!

Get your hands lasered pronto. I've got about 20% of my body tattooed; nothing shows in a long sleeve shirt, but if and when people find out the reaction varies between negative and offended.

Ok, good to know, thanks!

[lawfirmrecruiter]

any tips for discovering firms to apply to in smaller legal markets?

Start with Martindale.com. You can search by location and firm size. Then plain legal research on West or Lexis - look for courts fist and see who has the largest number of cases, etc.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

Seriously? Probably depends on how conservative the culture of the firms you are interviewing with are.

Unfortunately, yes, seriously. I haven't had any work done in almost 10 years. Got it all very young, and very quickly. I've considered laser removal at least for my hands, since I could easily keep the rest hidden. Surprisingly, I've worked in management for a top 10 ranked (and no, not Wal Mart) Fortune 500 company for the past several years. I'm no stranger to having to overcome this perceived obstacle, but was just curious if that obstacle is substantially larger pursuing a legal career.

Thanks for the great thread!

You probably need toat least consider having your hand tags removed. Again, it depends on the firms you are interviewing with.

[Anonymous User]

I am covered in tattoos from my hands to my toes. Nothing on my neck/face/head. Everything is covered up in long sleeves except for the hands. I'm not weird or creepy though, I promise. How unfavorably, if at all, is this viewed?

Seriously? Probably depends on how conservative the culture of the firms you are interviewing with are.

Unfortunately, yes, seriously. I haven't had any work done in almost 10 years. Got it all very young, and very quickly. I've considered laser removal at least for my hands, since I could easily keep the rest hidden. Surprisingly, I've worked in management for a top 10 ranked (and no, not Wal Mart) Fortune 500 company for the past several years. I'm no stranger to having to overcome this perceived obstacle, but was just curious if that obstacle is substantially larger pursuing a legal career.

Thanks for the great thread!

You probably need toat least consider having your hand tags removed. Again, it depends on the firms you are interviewing with.

Ok, thanks! I'm not at all adverse to having them removed.

[Anonymous User]

Contrary to popular belief, isn't what you during during 1L summer and before you begin 2L pretty important? I'm aware of the challenges this economy presents, but still. Almost like a "boost" for candidacy (depending on what you did) OCI come August?

+1. I would like to know the answer to this too.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for a great thread!

I am top 5% at a T1 in DC. I know DC SA positions are very competitive and that you have to come across as having a connection to the city. Besides attending law school in DC, I also worked there for 2 years prior. In addition, my long-term b/f is a DC native (rare) and works here.

My question is: as a 25 year-old female, should I be mentioning my boyfriend? The only reason I would is to drive home my connection to DC for the long-term, because "our" plan is to stay here.

Also, if/when we receive an interview, is in inappropriate at that point to contact law alumni at that firm to talk about the interview? Or, should these contacts happen before interviewees are selected and informed?

Thank you!

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Contrary to popular belief, isn't what you during during 1L summer and before you begin 2L pretty important? I'm aware of the challenges this economy presents, but still. Almost like a "boost" for candidacy (depending on what you did) OCI come August?

+1. I would like to know the answer to this too.

It certainly can help. It is just not as mandatory as it used to be. Just try to do something in the legal industry.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Thanks for a great thread!

I am top 5% at a T1 in DC. I know DC SA positions are very competitive and that you have to come across as having a connection to the city. Besides attending law school in DC, I also worked there for 2 years prior. In addition, my long-term b/f is a DC native (rare) and works here.

My question is: as a 25 year-old female, should I be mentioning my boyfriend? The only reason I would is to drive home my connection to DC for the long-term, because "our" plan is to stay here.

Also, if/when we receive an interview, is in inappropriate at that point to contact law alumni at that firm to talk about the interview? Or, should these contacts happen before interviewees are selected and informed?

Thank you!

Sounds like you make a pretty solid case for DC connection all on your own! You can include info about your BF but I wouldn't press that too much.

As for alumni, I would suggest contacting them early and often. Sometimes it takes a while to have the recommendation or information get to the right people. HTH

[Renzo]

I am an older student with an unusual former career. I like my two page resume. Career services says get it to a page. Who's right?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I am an older student with an unusual former career. I like my two page resume. Career services says get it to a page. Who's right?

If you have something to say, say it in as much space as it takes. One page rule applies to those without much experience. If you have prior work experience though you should definitely include it. Use your cover letter to connect the dots as to why you decided to pursue your JD.

[Anonymous User]

Do screening interviewers make CB decisions on the spot (after seeing the GPA and determining the candidate is socially normal), or do they bring their notes back to the firm where the hiring partner/committee eventually makes the decision based on the qualification and overall firm needs?

Also, if I have a contact in the firm (former partner), how do I take advantage of that? Do I put this person's name in the reference list and attach it to the resume, or do I simply ask the person to call the firm or do whatever he can? And if the latter is appropriate, at what point do I ask for the favor?