Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
drs36
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby drs36 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:57 pm

How are certificates viewed (i.e. a school offers a certificate in ADR, Health Law, etc)? Does that specialization without experience pigeonhole a candidate?

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:01 am

For students at schools where screening interviews are pre-select rather than lottery, do you still look at grades first (i.e. the people with the highest grades have the best chance at a CB) or is it based on the actual interview since you already chose those you were interested in based on grades/resume?

On another note - how does your firm view students who transferred from lower-ranked schools to top schools (i.e. T14)? Assuming good interviews and equal grades, would a T14 transfer have any advantage over a top student at the lower-ranked school or vice versa?

xyzbca
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:36 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby xyzbca » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:02 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:Assuming your firm has a tax department, would someone (me) with a CPA license and a Masters of Taxation from a nationally Top 20 ranked Accountancy program be competitive if he attended a 3rd tier state law school for financial reasons? I know grades are a factor, but I'm a 0L.


You would be competitive but would have to get your LLM.


lfr,

I apologize for hijacking your thread but I have an important message for LoyalRebel.

Rebel,

I hope that accounting job offer is still on the table for you. If it is, take the job offer and spend two years studying for the LSAT. Match a strong LSAT score to your stellar GPA and go to a top ranked school. Between your school rank, WE and (hopefully) scholarship money you will be in a very enviable position.

You're on the legal employment forum. Ask the 2L's and 3L's what they would do in your position.

About me: Lower T1, Top 10%, grading onto law review, 5-10 years WE for a F100 company, URM, solid interviewer and I'm still worrying about how I'm going to fare at OCI.

eta:

lfr,

Please weigh in on what Rebel should do. Solid UGPA with a job offer from an accounting firm, LSAT is holding LR back from a higher ranked law school.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273376
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:07 am

2.8 (70%) at T2 here. Two C's killed me, everything else at or above median. Legal writing A-.
1) Are there employers that perceive legal writing as the best indicator for law students, and will understand that some people are just not great exam takers?
2) Seeing that my grades will likely hover around median, what is the best way for me to find a job?

User avatar
traehekat
Posts: 3195
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:00 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby traehekat » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:10 am

I am considering transferring from my current school and I am curious how you and your firm view transfer students. Would you differentiate between a student who stays at his or her current school and mails in application materials to a firm versus a student who transfers to a higher ranked school and bids on the same firm through OCI? One of the most frequent arguments I have heard AGAINST transferring is that there is really no bump in employment chances between those two students because ultimately they have the same grades from the same school.

Thanks for taking the time to answer questions.

EDIT: Just saw Keg asked the same question, feel free to just answer hers.

User avatar
buckilaw
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 1:27 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby buckilaw » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:15 am

When you are looking at the resume of someone straight from undergrad to law school what do you like to see? Should internships be treated as actual work experience? What are some do's and dont's for resume writing, specific or very important to, job applicants straight from undergrad to law school? Thank you for your time and answers.

User avatar
mjitbswyd
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 9:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby mjitbswyd » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:22 am

Thank you for your post, it's especially helpful during this time.

I just transferred from Upenn's llm to the JD. As a result I only have 21 credits and all the courses I took were upper-levels (except for LW which is not graded) and the only "concrete" course was corporation (others were things like 1st Amendment seminar, accounting, etc.). My gpa is 4.0 (llm grading standard was same as JDs in the same class, though these upper-level courses were not strictly curved except for corporation) and I'm now doing summer internship in a white&case asian office. I won't apply for LR because need to take 1L courses next year, and I'm not URM.

How would you view my credentialsin in a 2L OCI(I'm graduating 2013 so will do OCI this fall)? Am I more or less competitive than, say, a top 1/4 in the Penn JD class? Thank you!

User avatar
Richie Tenenbaum
Posts: 2162
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:17 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:28 am

Thank you very much for taking the time to do this.

1) Thoughts on well-groomed beards when showing up for an interview? I've heard from younger partners they don't care, but they have warned older partners may be more conservative. Interested in Texas firms if that matters.

2) Any common fashion missteps that happen during interviews?

3) What have been some of the better general questions you've been asked by a student in an interview?

4) Do you view it as a negative if a student is not too involved in school organizations and activities even though the student has strong grades and is on a journal?

User avatar
risktaker
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:10 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby risktaker » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:33 am

Very interested in how you view students who transfer from a T2 to T14.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273376
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:46 am

Advice for us rising 3Ls Top 20% student at Top 10? Are there still positions out there for 3Ls...

User avatar
joemoviebuff
Posts: 788
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:51 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby joemoviebuff » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:14 am

Thanks for taking questions!

LoyalRebel
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:20 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby LoyalRebel » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:17 am

xyzbca wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:Assuming your firm has a tax department, would someone (me) with a CPA license and a Masters of Taxation from a nationally Top 20 ranked Accountancy program be competitive if he attended a 3rd tier state law school for financial reasons? I know grades are a factor, but I'm a 0L.


You would be competitive but would have to get your LLM.


lfr,

I apologize for hijacking your thread but I have an important message for LoyalRebel.

Rebel,

I hope that accounting job offer is still on the table for you. If it is, take the job offer and spend two years studying for the LSAT. Match a strong LSAT score to your stellar GPA and go to a top ranked school. Between your school rank, WE and (hopefully) scholarship money you will be in a very enviable position.

You're on the legal employment forum. Ask the 2L's and 3L's what they would do in your position.

About me: Lower T1, Top 10%, grading onto law review, 5-10 years WE for a F100 company, URM, solid interviewer and I'm still worrying about how I'm going to fare at OCI.

eta:

lfr,

Please weigh in on what Rebel should do. Solid UGPA with a job offer from an accounting firm, LSAT is holding LR back from a higher ranked law school.


With all due respect, please shut up about that. I'm tired of people on here telling me that without regard to my situation. I've been accepted at higher ranked T2 schools, I just didn't choose them because I've gotten a 3 year scholarship to my state school that brings my tuition down to only about $5,000 a year. I've already gotten a tentative job offer if I get my LLM, but I'd rather not spend an extra year getting an LLM if I don't have to.

Please mind your own business.

Note: I'm not normally this rude, but every time I ask a question all I hear is "retake!!" from bystanders.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273376
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:59 am

Likely to finish with a 2.9/3.0 at a T10 school, I know, not an enviable position to be in at all given what I'd guess my class rank is. My question is, since that GPA is clearly below the cutoffs for probably any firm, is there anything I can do to somehow get a callback and/or an offer from a firm? Will being at a top 10 school help me AT ALL, I know this has been asked on TLS before, but getting the perspective from a recruiter would be great. To explain my situation, I had an awful first semester (had some person reasons for that), to where I would need a vast improvement in my GPA just to end up with a 3.1 and top 5% grades to even be at median. If I do end up doing pretty well second semester (I'm being conservative about this though), have I shot myself in the foot with such a bad first semester? I do not have a whole lot of work experience as I'm pretty young, I also have a master's degree from a foreign country). Thank you so much for taking the time to help us

User avatar
newyorker88
Posts: 614
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby newyorker88 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:54 am

Is there a different gpa cut off for URMs? If so, approximately what is it?

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:What are your thoughts on a grade drop that occurs after the person already has an interview locked up but before the interview actually happens?


Not terrible. Just explain what happened and be honest.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:34 am

drs36 wrote:How are certificates viewed (i.e. a school offers a certificate in ADR, Health Law, etc)? Does that specialization without experience pigeonhole a candidate?


Certifications are great, especially if you are going for a specific practice area like healthcare. Shows your commitment to that area.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 am

keg411 wrote:For students at schools where screening interviews are pre-select rather than lottery, do you still look at grades first (i.e. the people with the highest grades have the best chance at a CB) or is it based on the actual interview since you already chose those you were interested in based on grades/resume?

On another note - how does your firm view students who transferred from lower-ranked schools to top schools (i.e. T14)? Assuming good interviews and equal grades, would a T14 transfer have any advantage over a top student at the lower-ranked school or vice versa?


With pre- selects candidatepersonality and fit are more important but grades are still a factor.

Some of our best attorneys were transfer students.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:2.8 (70%) at T2 here. Two C's killed me, everything else at or above median. Legal writing A-.
1) Are there employers that perceive legal writing as the best indicator for law students, and will understand that some people are just not great exam takers?
2) Seeing that my grades will likely hover around median, what is the best way for me to find a job?


You need to network as much as possible. You can overcome those Cs but you will need to make connections to have the chance to explain and move beyond.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:42 am

buckilaw wrote:When you are looking at the resume of someone straight from undergrad to law school what do you like to see? Should internships be treated as actual work experience? What are some do's and dont's for resume writing, specific or very important to, job applicants straight from undergrad to law school? Thank you for your time and answers.


You can treat you internships as work experience. Just include specifics about what you did and gained from the experience. For K-JDers, I like to see school involvement, committees, teamwork, etc.

User avatar
glewz
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:32 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby glewz » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:46 am

This post is not for me, I'm asking for a friend.

What advice would you have for a candidate who is bottom 30% at Michigan/Virginia/Penn? (relating to bidding, general comments, chances at a decent paying firm job, etc.)

Thanks a lot for doing this.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:47 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Thank you very much for taking the time to do this.

1) Thoughts on well-groomed beards when showing up for an interview? I've heard from younger partners they don't care, but they have warned older partners may be more conservative. Interested in Texas firms if that matters.

2) Any common fashion missteps that happen during interviews?

3) What have been some of the better general questions you've been asked by a student in an interview?

4) Do you view it as a negative if a student is not too involved in school organizations and activities even though the student has strong grades and is on a journal?


Oh I could tell some horror stories here. Best advice is just be well groomed and look in the mirror before you go in the firm. What would your mother think about what you look like??

I like it when the students ask about associate life and our practices. Just get a conversation going.

You should balance activities and don't try to spread yourself too thin.

lawfirmrecruiter
Posts: 622
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:28 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Advice for us rising 3Ls Top 20% student at Top 10? Are there still positions out there for 3Ls...


Yes. Actually our firm only hires 3Ls now. Also because summer classes are smaller, most firms are at least considering the 3L market.

User avatar
TaipeiMort
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby TaipeiMort » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:38 am

Rank the following in terms of value to you:

1) An engaging personality
2) Physical Attractiveness
3) Significant Big Business Experience
4) Entrepreneurial Business Experience
5) Chinese/Arabic Language Fluency
6) 1L Summer Associate Position
7) Great Grades
8) Interest in the firm

Thanks.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby keg411 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:45 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
keg411 wrote:For students at schools where screening interviews are pre-select rather than lottery, do you still look at grades first (i.e. the people with the highest grades have the best chance at a CB) or is it based on the actual interview since you already chose those you were interested in based on grades/resume?

On another note - how does your firm view students who transferred from lower-ranked schools to top schools (i.e. T14)? Assuming good interviews and equal grades, would a T14 transfer have any advantage over a top student at the lower-ranked school or vice versa?


With pre- selects candidatepersonality and fit are more important but grades are still a factor.

Some of our best attorneys were transfer students.


Thank you.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273376
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:20 am

Can you explain what it means to network with the goal of find out a job?




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.