Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:43 pm

First, thank you very much for this thread Recruiter.

My question may not have a set answer, but I'd greatly appreciate your insight nonetheless:

Basically, I was wondering how associates commonly exit from large firms. I don't mean "exit options," but rather, do most associates leave on their own accord (i.e. get tired of ordeal, and thus seek more "lifestyle" oriented profession, or mid-law)? Or are most associates asked to leave by the upper management?

And from this, when is the general period where most associates begin leaving? 3 years, on their own accord? 7 years, on the "advice" of the upper management? 3 years on the "advice" of upper management? Somewhere in between?

Again, thanks very much.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First, thank you very much for this thread Recruiter.

My question may not have a set answer, but I'd greatly appreciate your insight nonetheless:

Basically, I was wondering how associates commonly exit from large firms. I don't mean "exit options," but rather, do most associates leave on their own accord (i.e. get tired of ordeal, and thus seek more "lifestyle" oriented profession, or mid-law)? Or are most associates asked to leave by the upper management?

And from this, when is the general period where most associates begin leaving? 3 years, on their own accord? 7 years, on the "advice" of the upper management? 3 years on the "advice" of upper management? Somewhere in between?

Again, thanks very much.


There really are WAY to many reasons to generalize. Some associates find out they really don't like the rigors of a big firm; some choose to move over to a client; some have performance issues and are counseled out. As for time frame, again this a very broad generalization, associate attrition rates rise between the 3-5 year range. Sorry I can't be more specific, but there are so many factors that come in to play with associates leaving a firm.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby DocHawkeye » Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:01 am

Sorry for the long post, but I am currently a 1L and am beginning to look toward OCI for the spring but I have question that probably has broader implications than that. The issue is my educational background and experience. I have a Ph.D. in music and before coming to law school, taught at a community college for 4 years. I have no particular interest in practicing in an entertainment related field but am leaning more toward civil litigation generally, although I can’t really be more specific than that right now.

Given my background and practice interest, I have been advised to have a good answer to the “why law…now” question. My answer goes something like this: College teaching was not the career that I thought it was going to be. It requires one to focus on things that are very theoretical and, in my opinion, lacking real-world practical value. I have always had an interest in the law and have come to a point in my life where I feel like I need to do things that benefit real people instead of focusing on research that very few people will ever read. I still love music and it will always be a part of who I am but practicing law gives me the opportunity to be analytical and practical at the same time. This combination is very appealing to me.

Is this a sufficient answer?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:04 pm

Hi Lawfirmrecruiter:

If I do a 1 to 2 year Honors Attorney program with the federal government, will firms view me like a judicial clerk candidate, entry level candidate, or experienced hire? Is there a possibility to get a bonus like judicial clerks receive? Also, at what point in the fellowship should I start applying to firms?

Thank you for your help!

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:11 pm

I apologize if this is a stupid question... My wife and I want to each get a tattoo on our ring finger of a ring and decided it would be our anniversay gift to each other. Now, I usually wear my wedding ring unless I'm sleeping, exercising, swimming, or playing a sport. However, I'm concerned what impact it may have on hiring. I would assume most firms won't hire someone with a tattoo that is visible when in normal business attire (like a tattoo on the face, neck, back of the HANd, etc...), and although I'll most assuredly have my ring on while interviewing, I just want to make sure it isn't going to cost me future employment prospects.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:30 pm

Thanks for taking questions.

1. Given the current hiring environment, where would a URM SLS student with straight Ps be able to land in NYC - V5/V10/V25/V50/V100? What about at median?

2. Some people talk about exit opps into IB for those on the corporate side. Are those who leave to do IB entering as an associate or VP? I have heard both. Is it difficult to lateral to IB? Would being at a V25 as opposed to a V10, for example, make it significantly harder to lateral to IB?

Thanks.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby koalatriste » Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for taking questions.

1. Given the current hiring environment, where would a URM SLS student with straight Ps be able to land in NYC - V5/V10/V25/V50/V100? What about at median?

2. Some people talk about exit opps into IB for those on the corporate side. Are those who leave to do IB entering as an associate or VP? I have heard both. Is it difficult to lateral to IB? Would being at a V25 as opposed to a V10, for example, make it significantly harder to lateral to IB?

Thanks.


(1) Why don't you (a) spend your time studying and stop asking ridiculous questions about this AND (b) recognize that hiring is not a linear process - yes, grades are probably the most important factor in getting callbacks, but they are far from the only factor and not even #1 at SLS has a 100% lock on a V5 firm (though, I mean, there would have to be some serious alternative deficiencies in play). Conversely, that means that the student who is last in the class is not shut out of the V100, V50, V25, etc. There is just way too much in play to even start thinking about this; get some grades and then talk to OCS about your bid list in JUNE.

(2) If you really want to go into investment banking, drop out and get an MBA. Your questions reflect an extremely underdeveloped 1L understanding of legal hiring, law practice, and "exit opps."

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby c3pO4 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:03 pm

koalatriste wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for taking questions.

1. Given the current hiring environment, where would a URM SLS student with straight Ps be able to land in NYC - V5/V10/V25/V50/V100? What about at median?

2. Some people talk about exit opps into IB for those on the corporate side. Are those who leave to do IB entering as an associate or VP? I have heard both. Is it difficult to lateral to IB? Would being at a V25 as opposed to a V10, for example, make it significantly harder to lateral to IB?

Thanks.


(1) Why don't you (a) spend your time studying and stop asking ridiculous questions about this AND (b) recognize that hiring is not a linear process - yes, grades are probably the most important factor in getting callbacks, but they are far from the only factor and not even #1 at SLS has a 100% lock on a V5 firm (though, I mean, there would have to be some serious alternative deficiencies in play). Conversely, that means that the student who is last in the class is not shut out of the V100, V50, V25, etc. There is just way too much in play to even start thinking about this; get some grades and then talk to OCS about your bid list in JUNE.

(2) If you really want to go into investment banking, drop out and get an MBA. Your questions reflect an extremely underdeveloped 1L understanding of legal hiring, law practice, and "exit opps."


There is such a thing as a dumb question?

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NYC Law
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby NYC Law » Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:08 pm

Can you guys stop trying to hijack this thread and let the recruiter answer the questions? Thanks.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:37 pm

For an incoming summer associate (female), what are required clothing items that should be purchased? Are you expected to wear suits every day? Sorry if this has been asked before.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:57 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:Sorry for the long post, but I am currently a 1L and am beginning to look toward OCI for the spring but I have question that probably has broader implications than that. The issue is my educational background and experience. I have a Ph.D. in music and before coming to law school, taught at a community college for 4 years. I have no particular interest in practicing in an entertainment related field but am leaning more toward civil litigation generally, although I can’t really be more specific than that right now.

Given my background and practice interest, I have been advised to have a good answer to the “why law…now” question. My answer goes something like this: College teaching was not the career that I thought it was going to be. It requires one to focus on things that are very theoretical and, in my opinion, lacking real-world practical value. I have always had an interest in the law and have come to a point in my life where I feel like I need to do things that benefit real people instead of focusing on research that very few people will ever read. I still love music and it will always be a part of who I am but practicing law gives me the opportunity to be analytical and practical at the same time. This combination is very appealing to me.

Is this a sufficient answer?


I would refocus the first part of your answer to be more positive about the skills your previous background gave you and how it will help you as an attorney. Don't try to justify your previous career. Stay positive and concentrate on how your WE will translate - music school and acedemics require discipline, theoretical understanding, etc. then go into your interest in law as you describe above.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi Lawfirmrecruiter:

If I do a 1 to 2 year Honors Attorney program with the federal government, will firms view me like a judicial clerk candidate, entry level candidate, or experienced hire? Is there a possibility to get a bonus like judicial clerks receive? Also, at what point in the fellowship should I start applying to firms?

Thank you for your help!


This probably depends on the type of position and practice you are going in to. Nyou would not be considered an experienced hire but possibly on the level of a clerk. Bonus would be firm by firm so not sure. You should start making connections with firms immediately and focus on making relationships that will lead to something in the future.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I apologize if this is a stupid question... My wife and I want to each get a tattoo on our ring finger of a ring and decided it would be our anniversay gift to each other. Now, I usually wear my wedding ring unless I'm sleeping, exercising, swimming, or playing a sport. However, I'm concerned what impact it may have on hiring. I would assume most firms won't hire someone with a tattoo that is visible when in normal business attire (like a tattoo on the face, neck, back of the HANd, etc...), and although I'll most assuredly have my ring on while interviewing, I just want to make sure it isn't going to cost me future employment prospects.


Even if you don't think anyone will notice, please remember the legal profession is extremely conservative. If you are interested in working for a firm, I would caution against any type of possibly visible tattoo.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for taking questions.

1. Given the current hiring environment, where would a URM SLS student with straight Ps be able to land in NYC - V5/V10/V25/V50/V100? What about at median?

2. Some people talk about exit opps into IB for those on the corporate side. Are those who leave to do IB entering as an associate or VP? I have heard both. Is it difficult to lateral to IB? Would being at a V25 as opposed to a V10, for example, make it significantly harder to lateral to IB?

Thanks.


1. I am not in this market and cannot answer.

2. This would be entirely on a CBC basis, both the title and the Vault level.

Sorry I can't be more help on this one.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For an incoming summer associate (female), what are required clothing items that should be purchased? Are you expected to wear suits every day? Sorry if this has been asked before.


Talk to your firm's recruiter to see what the dress code is. Always better to start more conservatively until you know what is expected. IMHO, at the very least, you should have 1-3 inch heels, hose, 1 nice skirt suit, 1 nice pant suit. You will probably be fine with nice slacks and blouse also.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:29 pm

LFR --

Trying to gauge how firms view visiting another law school for a semester of the last year of school or for the entire last year. I am at/near top of my class and would be going from a tier 2 school to a T14 school. I have a SA lined up, but desire another city long-term for personal reasons. Chance the firm would allow me transfer to the preferred city, but you never know.

If the firm didn't let me transfer (knock on wood, assuming offer is made), would firms view me visiting at another school negatively if I was visiting in the city I want to be in long-term? In the long run does visiting work against someone?

I know you would only know specifically for your firm, but the overall sense of perception you may have would be great.

Thank you.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:LFR --

Trying to gauge how firms view visiting another law school for a semester of the last year of school or for the entire last year. I am at/near top of my class and would be going from a tier 2 school to a T14 school. I have a SA lined up, but desire another city long-term for personal reasons. Chance the firm would allow me transfer to the preferred city, but you never know.

If the firm didn't let me transfer (knock on wood, assuming offer is made), would firms view me visiting at another school negatively if I was visiting in the city I want to be in long-term? In the long run does visiting work against someone?

I know you would only know specifically for your firm, but the overall sense of perception you may have would be great.

Thank you.


It will all be in how you explain it when asked, but I don't think this would be viewed as a negative. Especially if you frame your reasoning around creating ties in your preferred city.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:47 am

Hey LFR,

Again, thank you for answering all of my and other people's questions.

I need a point of view from you...

Last summer, I clerked for two judges...one being a federal Article III judge. OCI didn't go well for me. I had multiple interviews, two callbacks, but no offers.

My goal is to work at a firm doing litigation - specifically corporate litigation. Medium-Big size firm preferred.

I've been offered a paying position (~14/hr) with legal services. I would actually litigate my own cases and handle them from start to finish with a supervising attorney merely supervising.

Does accepting this position hurt my chances at an already rare 3L Summer/entry level firm job? Does it help?

Target Market is NYC...other NE cities and some West Coast cities would also be fine.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:51 am

I informed my oustanding V-100 that I have a two-week deadline with an offer from a midsize firm. The recruiter then requested a second writing sample "for further review." Is this standard? What does this mean?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:56 am

I go to a T14 law school, I got no offered, but I did get accepted into a highlly competivite honors program (through a personal connection). If I bring by grades up (above median), and get onto law review... publish something. Do you think 3L OCI, I would get something?

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I informed my oustanding V-100 that I have a two-week deadline with an offer from a midsize firm. The recruiter then requested a second writing sample "for further review." Is this standard? What does this mean?


IMHO, it means they are seriously considering you but your writing sample was lacking a little bit. Make sure this one is over-the-top good...

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Haymarket » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:11 pm

Thanks for taking questions. You are an asset to the boards.

I wanted to ask a question that I don't think has exactly been asked (at least not in the page history I checked to try to avoid a duplicate question. When it comes to 2L OCI looking at candidates, how would you rank the importance/positive impact/benefit or whatever for the different general categories of 1L summer work. I would assume things like a Big Law 1L SA are at the top, but as I work to get apps out for this summer for everything from firms to PI, it would be nice to know what looks better. I was thinking the following general categories, and thank in advance for your input.

Law Firm SA
Judicial Internship
Federal/State/Local Gov't
PI
RA
Non-legal work/Corporate

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey LFR,

Again, thank you for answering all of my and other people's questions.

I need a point of view from you...

Last summer, I clerked for two judges...one being a federal Article III judge. OCI didn't go well for me. I had multiple interviews, two callbacks, but no offers.

My goal is to work at a firm doing litigation - specifically corporate litigation. Medium-Big size firm preferred.

I've been offered a paying position (~14/hr) with legal services. I would actually litigate my own cases and handle them from start to finish with a supervising attorney merely supervising.

Does accepting this position hurt my chances at an already rare 3L Summer/entry level firm job? Does it help?

Target Market is NYC...other NE cities and some West Coast cities would also be fine.


Any experience you can get will help you in the long run. If you have an opportunity for a paying summer position, you should take it. Work hard and prove yourself and get as much experience as humanly possible.

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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:25 pm

Hi LFR,

I had a question about the way law firms view the courses you take. I have yet to take Trial Ad, Evidence, or any other litigation centric courses. In fact, my courses up to this point have been pretty much focused on transactional practices. Assuming I would prefer a litigation job over no job, would not taking evidence bar me from serious consideration in such job opportunities? Or is it more of a course that shows some interest in litigation but not something that would stop me in my tracks. I have other courses I'd prefer to take in its stead. Also, i'm a 3L who worked a litigation SA.

Thanks if you're still answering questions and sorry if this was already answered. I didn't look through the 50 something pages this thread is at.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I informed my oustanding V-100 that I have a two-week deadline with an offer from a midsize firm. The recruiter then requested a second writing sample "for further review." Is this standard? What does this mean?


It sounds like they are definitely interested and want to see something a bit more. When we ask for something like this, we are looking for a sample that shows intellectual curiosity and takes a issue just a bit further. I agree with the later poster - submit something that really knocks it out of the park. Good luck!




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