Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit Forum

[lawfirmrecruiter]

First of all, thank you for taking questions. Second, how do you weigh military experience when hiring? Does being in specialty units (Special Forces or Rangers for example) help at all?

Military experience is wonderful. You learn teamwork, leadership skills and how to handle highly stressful situations. It certainly helps and looks good.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Would your firm - and, in your educated opinion, in-house positions and other firms - give consideration to someone with 2-3 years of experience in a biglaw debtor-side bankruptcy group, who has to leave the markets where those groups thrive due to personal circumstances?

I am kind of petrified that I'm not going to have any lateral options because debtor-side bankruptcy isn't really a specialty that translates well into anything done in-house, and basically isn't a group that exists outside of certain markets.

It does exist but mainly in smaller boutique firms (at least in our market). You should seek out the smaller bankruptcy boutiques in the markets you are interested in.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Dear LFR:

I'm a 3L and I took a class this fall taught by a partner at a mid-sized (~75 attorneys) law firm in my region. At my end of semester evaluation she was very impressed with my writing. I got almost perfect scores on all 5 assignments. The partner is in the practice area that I am very interested in. What is the best way to approach her to network and hopefully get some information about a job at her firm or at a firm that she has friends at? It seems a little awkward to just email her and ask these questions. Thanks!

Easy. Pick up the phone and call her. Seriously. Ask her if she would be willing to have coffee and discuss her practice. She will be flattered that you found her class interesting and want to pursue the same practice area. DO NOT overtly say that you are trolling for a job, however. Simply say you would like to learn more about X type of work and then ask her opinion about how to go into that area.

[run26.2]

Can you please comment on how 2L grades affect post-summer offers? There's been much debate about this around the forum, but I'd really like to hear what you have to say.

Maybe it's trolling, but this post concerns me:

This q reminds me if when I worked hr at a large law firm. The hiring partner would tell me each year to look at offered summers' final transcript and subtract it from the transcript they submitted as 2Ls. He was so anal about it, I would have to deliver a spreadsheet and yellow highlight anyone with a drop and red highlight anyone with more than a .1 drop. You can guess how.many of the reds I saw at the firm the next fall! (Tip: 0)

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... 2233aa068b

Thanks.

This seems a bit extreme to me. When we had a summer program, I did check the 2L grades prior to the summer program but we never had a partner take the time to do anything like this. We check grades to make sure there was not a serious problem. While some grade slippage is okay, we would question a SERIOUS drop. Moving to a 3L apprentice program completely removed this issue for us and students because we no longer have the long time gap between application and job offer.

There are lots of firms out there that are unwilling to innovate. Yours seems not to be part of that camp. Do you envision your firm (or any firms or many firms) moving all hiring to after graduation?

In other words, if you have an apprentice program, why even hire before 3L as opposed to hiring after graduation, when you have even more data about a candidate?

I anticipate one answer being there may be fewer desirable candidates without jobs at that junction. Are there other reasons?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Can you please comment on how 2L grades affect post-summer offers? There's been much debate about this around the forum, but I'd really like to hear what you have to say.

Maybe it's trolling, but this post concerns me:

This q reminds me if when I worked hr at a large law firm. The hiring partner would tell me each year to look at offered summers' final transcript and subtract it from the transcript they submitted as 2Ls. He was so anal about it, I would have to deliver a spreadsheet and yellow highlight anyone with a drop and red highlight anyone with more than a .1 drop. You can guess how.many of the reds I saw at the firm the next fall! (Tip: 0)

http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thr ... 2233aa068b

Thanks.

This seems a bit extreme to me. When we had a summer program, I did check the 2L grades prior to the summer program but we never had a partner take the time to do anything like this. We check grades to make sure there was not a serious problem. While some grade slippage is okay, we would question a SERIOUS drop. Moving to a 3L apprentice program completely removed this issue for us and students because we no longer have the long time gap between application and job offer.

There are lots of firms out there that are unwilling to innovate. Yours seems not to be part of that camp. Do you envision your firm (or any firms or many firms) moving all hiring to after graduation?

In other words, if you have an apprentice program, why even hire before 3L as opposed to hiring after graduation, when you have even more data about a candidate?

I anticipate one answer being there may be fewer desirable candidates without jobs at that junction. Are there other reasons?

Good question and you are correct in your answer. I do not see firms moving to hiring students after graduation except in one off situations to fill slots left empty by clerkships or dramatic shifts in business. I believe firms will keep entry level classes a bit smaller and balance hiring needs with lateral associates and staff attorneys that have specific experience at different levels.

[Danteshek]

Thank you for confirming that students without offers at graduation are basically screwed. I appreciate the honesty.

[Anonymous User]

How long should an associate expect to have to wait before having a good shot at lateraling? I've seen some lateral position openings that ask for say 1-4 years of experience, but wouldn't it send a warning signal to potential employers if applications were attempting to jump ship after 1 year?

[Anonymous User]

If an unemployed 3L from a lower T14 with median grades applies as a paralegal or secretary at your firm, are they given a boost, treated like any other candidate for the position, or not as strongly considered? Thank you!

[NYC Law]

On weakness interview questions -
Do you think it would be okay to play the angle that I'm not very detail oriented? I know that's probably not the BEST weakness to bring up in an interview, but part of me thinks I can make it work.
I'm much more of a big picture guy, type B personality, and I can be very analytical and come up with decent ideas - but people like myself (myself included) tend to overlook small details. I think it could be an interesting angle to play up, that an office needs a good mix of people, those that can see the trees and those that can see the forest, and I'm the perfect forest guy (hope that doesn't get taken out of context). So I think it is something to differentiate myself from the large pool of type A law students...
Is it worth it, or is that too risky?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

How long should an associate expect to have to wait before having a good shot at lateraling? I've seen some lateral position openings that ask for say 1-4 years of experience, but wouldn't it send a warning signal to potential employers if applications were attempting to jump ship after 1 year?

Wanting to lateral after one year is not ideal, but it is not necessarily a red flag - especially if the firm has indicated they will accept resumes from someone with 1-3 years of experience. IMO, lateral options really start to improve after 3 full years. Generally when we look for laterals, we want someone who is already trained in a particular area and can hit the ground running on cases/matters when they get here.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

If an unemployed 3L from a lower T14 with median grades applies as a paralegal or secretary at your firm, are they given a boost, treated like any other candidate for the position, or not as strongly considered? Thank you!

Unfortunately, a JD will probably not give you any boost in this situation. Paralegals are hired for specific groups and need to already have specific experience in that area. Again, this is just my opinion from my market. There may be other viewpoints from larger markets and firms.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

On weakness interview questions -
Do you think it would be okay to play the angle that I'm not very detail oriented? I know that's probably not the BEST weakness to bring up in an interview, but part of me thinks I can make it work.
I'm much more of a big picture guy, type B personality, and I can be very analytical and come up with decent ideas - but people like myself (myself included) tend to overlook small details. I think it could be an interesting angle to play up, that an office needs a good mix of people, those that can see the trees and those that can see the forest, and I'm the perfect forest guy (hope that doesn't get taken out of context). So I think it is something to differentiate myself from the large pool of type A law students...
Is it worth it, or is that too risky?

NO NO NO! This is way too risky. I see where you are going with this but you should really think about how you phrase it. Being a lawyer is 100% dependent on being detail oriented and you should never lead with a statement that you are NOT very detail oriented.

[Anonymous User]

When your firm is evaluating lateral candidates, do you view it as any kind of positive at all if they have written published LR articles, practitioner notes for bar journal newsletters, etc.?

[c3pO4]

On weakness interview questions -
Do you think it would be okay to play the angle that I'm not very detail oriented? I know that's probably not the BEST weakness to bring up in an interview, but part of me thinks I can make it work.
I'm much more of a big picture guy, type B personality, and I can be very analytical and come up with decent ideas - but people like myself (myself included) tend to overlook small details. I think it could be an interesting angle to play up, that an office needs a good mix of people, those that can see the trees and those that can see the forest, and I'm the perfect forest guy (hope that doesn't get taken out of context). So I think it is something to differentiate myself from the large pool of type A law students...
Is it worth it, or is that too risky?

NO NO NO! This is way too risky. I see where you are going with this but you should really think about how you phrase it. Being a lawyer is 100% dependent on being detail oriented and you should never lead with a statement that you are NOT very detail oriented.

ya NYC you are way overthinking things. convincing an interviewer you have poor attention to detail is a good thing? for a law job? huh?

[Anonymous User]

Should I put a co-authorship credit for an economic article published in a reputable peer reviewed journal on my resume? I did roughly 1/2 the total research and 1/3 of the work on the paper. The paper is standard format economic stuff though.

This may be a moot point since I am a 2L with a SA position next summer, but going forward is it worth anything in the legal profession?

[crimsons]

I have a science background (Masters in Biology) and I'm interested in IP, but not to the extent that it is my only choice. Would recruiters automatically typecast me as an IP applicant when they look at my resume? Would this problem be compounded if I took the patent bar?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

When your firm is evaluating lateral candidates, do you view it as any kind of positive at all if they have written published LR articles, practitioner notes for bar journal newsletters, etc.?

Yes. Especially if it is on a topic related to the practice area for which we are hiring.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Should I put a co-authorship credit for an economic article published in a reputable peer reviewed journal on my resume? I did roughly 1/2 the total research and 1/3 of the work on the paper. The paper is standard format economic stuff though.

This may be a moot point since I am a 2L with a SA position next summer, but going forward is it worth anything in the legal profession?

Yes. I think this would be relevant and shows a business-minded angle.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I have a science background (Masters in Biology) and I'm interested in IP, but not to the extent that it is my only choice. Would recruiters automatically typecast me as an IP applicant when they look at my resume? Would this problem be compounded if I took the patent bar?

Not at all. Use your coverletter to target the area you are interested in. Don't forget that you can also have several different resumes that play up on the strength you are trying to get across to the firms/recruiters. Don't leave anything out, but expand on the sections you are trying to leverage.

[FlanAl]

I'm a 1L a ways off from OCI but had a quick question while I take a break from studying. I know that people can explain their wife's ties to a region to establish ties for themselves but what about girlfriend's etc. For instance I'll have been dating my girlfriend for 7 years by the time I go through OCI (neither of us want to get married before we have gainful employment). If she needs to be in say Chicago for her job is there anyway for me to use that to establish ties or do firms really only take these types of things seriously if you are talking about your wife.

Thanks!

[lawfirmrecruiter]

I'm a 1L a ways off from OCI but had a quick question while I take a break from studying. I know that people can explain their wife's ties to a region to establish ties for themselves but what about girlfriend's etc. For instance I'll have been dating my girlfriend for 7 years by the time I go through OCI (neither of us want to get married before we have gainful employment). If she needs to be in say Chicago for her job is there anyway for me to use that to establish ties or do firms really only take these types of things seriously if you are talking about your wife.

Thanks!

GF ties are obviously not as strong as wife/fiancee ties, but they are still strong. Especially if you have been dating for a long time.

[duckfan00]

What are a few tips you would advise for first year survival and sanity at a firm job??Thanks...

[lawfirmrecruiter]

What are a few tips you would advise for first year survival and sanity at a firm job??Thanks...

Your first year will most likely be a bit of a shocker. You have spent 3 years in law school looking at issues from the 100,000 foot theoretical viewpoint and now you will have partners wanting you to look at grains of sand with a microscope. Luckily, we all understand this and will help train you along the way. Here are a few tips off the top of my head:

1. Find and use a mentor. Your firm may assign one, but if not, seek someone out. This is a business relationship that will help you navigate firm culture, politics, help you get good assignments, help you understand when things don't go well, etc. To have a good mentor/mentee relationship, you have to be proactive and know that you need to seek them out and have questions when you schedule meetings.

2. Your partners are your clients. Don't forget this. Ever. Do good work for them and seek out the type of work you want. Go talk to them about deals/cases and be proactive. You can develop great business development skills that will serve you well when you are a partner if you just practice on the partners now.

3. Keep up with your classmates. They are future referral sources, GCs, judges, etc. Don't forget about them!

If you want some good practice tips, here is a good link: --LinkRemoved--

[c3pO4]

I'm a 1L a ways off from OCI but had a quick question while I take a break from studying. I know that people can explain their wife's ties to a region to establish ties for themselves but what about girlfriend's etc. For instance I'll have been dating my girlfriend for 7 years by the time I go through OCI (neither of us want to get married before we have gainful employment). If she needs to be in say Chicago for her job is there anyway for me to use that to establish ties or do firms really only take these types of things seriously if you are talking about your wife.

Thanks!

GF ties are obviously not as strong as wife/fiancee ties, but they are still strong. Especially if you have been dating for a long time.

Just say domestic partner. Marriage is outdated in 2011, if you say partner I've been living with for X years it means literally the same as a promise to get married, or getting married IMO. Also, you can do this regardless of gender. Partner doesn't have to mean gay or strait only.

[ToTransferOrNot]

I'm a 1L a ways off from OCI but had a quick question while I take a break from studying. I know that people can explain their wife's ties to a region to establish ties for themselves but what about girlfriend's etc. For instance I'll have been dating my girlfriend for 7 years by the time I go through OCI (neither of us want to get married before we have gainful employment). If she needs to be in say Chicago for her job is there anyway for me to use that to establish ties or do firms really only take these types of things seriously if you are talking about your wife.

Thanks!

GF ties are obviously not as strong as wife/fiancee ties, but they are still strong. Especially if you have been dating for a long time.

Just say domestic partner. Marriage is outdated in 2011, if you say partner I've been living with for X years it means literally the same as a promise to get married, or getting married IMO. Also, you can do this regardless of gender. Partner doesn't have to mean gay or strait only.

lol.