Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

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c3pO4
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby c3pO4 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:After someone has already accepted an offer for a summer associateship, how important are 2L grades in deciding whether to extend them a full time offer (i.e. how far do they have to drop before they will be taken into account over a solid summer performance)?

Similarly, how important are 2L and 3L grades when evaluating a lateral candidate?


The question of the hour, lol -- please direct yourself to the 2L- no motivation thread.

Basically, don't get a C average and you'll be fine. Most firms don't care about grades after they've evaluated your work. But make sure your work is exemplary in the summer. I don't need to be a law firm recruiter to tell you that.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:02 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:After someone has already accepted an offer for a summer associateship, how important are 2L grades in deciding whether to extend them a full time offer (i.e. how far do they have to drop before they will be taken into account over a solid summer performance)?

Similarly, how important are 2L and 3L grades when evaluating a lateral candidate?


The question of the hour, lol -- please direct yourself to the 2L- no motivation thread.

Basically, don't get a C average and you'll be fine. Most firms don't care about grades after they've evaluated your work. But make sure your work is exemplary in the summer. I don't need to be a law firm recruiter to tell you that.


This. However, I will caution you not to put all of your proverbial eggs in the summer associate job basket. Don't let your grades slip because you are assuming you are guaranteed a permenant offer at the end of the summer. If it does not work out for whatever reason, you don't want to have to start your job search with lower grades.

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Renne Walker
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Renne Walker » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:07 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.


Yes. I anticipate hiring more this year than last. This is playing out on the lateral side as well. In the past 2 months, we have hired 8 new laterals and are looking for several more.


In July I asked how hiring was going and your response was encouraging. Now that four months have passed, is the outlook still the same?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:00 pm

Renne Walker wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.


Yes. I anticipate hiring more this year than last. This is playing out on the lateral side as well. In the past 2 months, we have hired 8 new laterals and are looking for several more.


In July I asked how hiring was going and your response was encouraging. Now that four months have passed, is the outlook still the same?


Yes, especially on the lateral side. So far this year, we have hired 20 laterals. It is still rough for students, but firms are still hiring entry levels and starting to discuss increasing class sizes a bit. Moving our student recruiting to 3L hiring let us include more in the program this year and I expect the same for next. The market is trending upward but we are no where near pre-2008 numbers, nor do I expect firms to ever get there again (IMHO).

c3pO4
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby c3pO4 » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:55 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.


Yes. I anticipate hiring more this year than last. This is playing out on the lateral side as well. In the past 2 months, we have hired 8 new laterals and are looking for several more.


In July I asked how hiring was going and your response was encouraging. Now that four months have passed, is the outlook still the same?


Yes, especially on the lateral side. So far this year, we have hired 20 laterals. It is still rough for students, but firms are still hiring entry levels and starting to discuss increasing class sizes a bit. Moving our student recruiting to 3L hiring let us include more in the program this year and I expect the same for next. The market is trending upward but we are no where near pre-2008 numbers, nor do I expect firms to ever get there again (IMHO).


Seems like a ton of firms are hiring laterals. Frankly this is pretty scary as a law student... I'm concerned about no-offers next summer because needs were filled by surplus laterals.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:54 am

If one has mediocre numbers but obtained a state clerkship in the same state they hope to practice, will that substantially improve their ability to find employment or otherwise make them more marketable?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:If one has mediocre numbers but obtained a state clerkship in the same state they hope to practice, will that substantially improve their ability to find employment or otherwise make them more marketable?


It will certainly help. You will get good experience and have the chance to meet a lot of people. Make a good impression and use those new connections open doors and get interviews with firms.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:12 am

how helpful is clinical experience? In terms of importance of extracurricular activities would it go Law review/journal, moot court, clinic? I'd imagine clinic experience would be more important, as it seems more practical, but I hardly see it mentioned.

lawschoolgrapedme
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawschoolgrapedme » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:26 am

I am a transfer to CCN from a top 25. I was top 3% at my old school. I am expecting a significant drop in my grades - think median or below. How will this be viewed come offer time? (summering with a v5).

funstuff
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby funstuff » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:12 pm

Thanks for the helpful answers already.
My question has already been posted in this forum but I would love your opinion. I'll be graduating from college and would like to work a couple years (2-3 or so) before starting law school. What kind of work experience seems most helpful for OCI?

Also, would doing low-prestige work help whatsoever before OCI? I'm thinking working at a restaurant, high school coach, maybe working on a campaign for these upcoming elections. Nothing like banking or law firm work most likely.

Thanks again.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:how helpful is clinical experience? In terms of importance of extracurricular activities would it go Law review/journal, moot court, clinic? I'd imagine clinic experience would be more important, as it seems more practical, but I hardly see it mentioned.


You are right. There is not much discussion about clinical experience but there should be. As these programs are further developed at more schools, they are becoming more and more of a differentiator. Especially for firms that are looking for people with interest in specific areas of practice. If you are interested in corporate law, for instance, taking the "business track" or clinic shows prospective employers that you are serious about your career and have set up a plan to pursue that particular area long term.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:00 am

lawschoolgrapedme wrote:I am a transfer to CCN from a top 25. I was top 3% at my old school. I am expecting a significant drop in my grades - think median or below. How will this be viewed come offer time? (summering with a v5).


This probably depends on the internal policies and procedures of the firm you are clerking for. Why are you expecting such a big drop??

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:06 am

funstuff wrote:Thanks for the helpful answers already.
My question has already been posted in this forum but I would love your opinion. I'll be graduating from college and would like to work a couple years (2-3 or so) before starting law school. What kind of work experience seems most helpful for OCI?

Also, would doing low-prestige work help whatsoever before OCI? I'm thinking working at a restaurant, high school coach, maybe working on a campaign for these upcoming elections. Nothing like banking or law firm work most likely.

Thanks again.


I'll start with a question first - why do you want to be a lawyer? Answer that question honestly to yourself and then start to build a path from there with some sort of connection to your future career. If you are not going to work in a law firm setting (i.e. as a runner or something to see what firm life is really like), try to work in an area where your future clients will be. Example - If you want to help less fortunate people, look for work with a non-profit of some sort. If you want to be a BigLaw corporate attorney, try to get an entry level position in business. If government is your thing, go for the elections.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:07 am

Hey lawfirmrecruiter...

give me an interview?

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey lawfirmrecruiter...

give me an interview?


Sure. Let's start with a resume though . . .

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:20 am

Hi lawfirmrecruiter. If a student from a top 30 school with a strong public interest background missed out on OCI but is serious about finding a midlaw/biglaw job 3L year, would it be better for them to spend the summer with a small firm/solo attorney or judicial clerkship? And if judicial clerkship, what level (state appellate, etc.) are we talking about for it to outweigh the private practice option? I have above median but not top of class grades and want to work on getting the GPA up along with the best realistic summer option I can find before the 3L job hunt. Thanks.

005618502
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby 005618502 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:09 pm

Just wanted to say thank you, as many have, for doing this. You're awesome!

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi lawfirmrecruiter. If a student from a top 30 school with a strong public interest background missed out on OCI but is serious about finding a midlaw/biglaw job 3L year, would it be better for them to spend the summer with a small firm/solo attorney or judicial clerkship? And if judicial clerkship, what level (state appellate, etc.) are we talking about for it to outweigh the private practice option? I have above median but not top of class grades and want to work on getting the GPA up along with the best realistic summer option I can find before the 3L job hunt. Thanks.


It would really depend on the type of law you want to practice. However, I would give a slight preference to the small firm option because you will get actual law firm experience and you can ask those lawyers to help you network.

funstuff
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby funstuff » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:20 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
funstuff wrote:Thanks for the helpful answers already.
My question has already been posted in this forum but I would love your opinion. I'll be graduating from college and would like to work a couple years (2-3 or so) before starting law school. What kind of work experience seems most helpful for OCI?

Also, would doing low-prestige work help whatsoever before OCI? I'm thinking working at a restaurant, high school coach, maybe working on a campaign for these upcoming elections. Nothing like banking or law firm work most likely.

Thanks again.


I'll start with a question first - why do you want to be a lawyer? Answer that question honestly to yourself and then start to build a path from there with some sort of connection to your future career. If you are not going to work in a law firm setting (i.e. as a runner or something to see what firm life is really like), try to work in an area where your future clients will be. Example - If you want to help less fortunate people, look for work with a non-profit of some sort. If you want to be a BigLaw corporate attorney, try to get an entry level position in business. If government is your thing, go for the elections.


Law seems interesting to me and my father works in BigLaw, so I know what the lifestyle/work is like. He does Corporate and I'd prefer litigation, and he doesn't do any sort of recruiting, so he hasn't been too useful on that front besides work hard + good grades at good school + don't be a jerk. I'd like to go biglaw and maybe move into government at some point (prosecution or something else).
Thanks!

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:22 am

How much does race (non URM), looks, height, weight, build, factor into recruiting?

run26.2
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby run26.2 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:41 am

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Renne Walker wrote:In an earlier thread you mentioned you were recruiting more this year than in 2009 or 2010. Now that callback time is here, is that upward trend still holding true? Thanks.


Yes. I anticipate hiring more this year than last. This is playing out on the lateral side as well. In the past 2 months, we have hired 8 new laterals and are looking for several more.


In July I asked how hiring was going and your response was encouraging. Now that four months have passed, is the outlook still the same?


Yes, especially on the lateral side. So far this year, we have hired 20 laterals. It is still rough for students, but firms are still hiring entry levels and starting to discuss increasing class sizes a bit. Moving our student recruiting to 3L hiring let us include more in the program this year and I expect the same for next. The market is trending upward but we are no where near pre-2008 numbers, nor do I expect firms to ever get there again (IMHO).

Do you think that firms may or should move to more 3L recruiting, since it is more difficult to predict needs 25 months out than it is at 13 months out? I realize that some of the benefits of hiring someone closer to their actual start date will be offset by not having ever worked around the individual.
Last edited by run26.2 on Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 19, 2011 7:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How much does race (non URM), looks, height, weight, build, factor into recruiting?


I would assume the answer from lawfirmrecruiter regarding race would be "Zero" since weighing race would be illegal.

TooOld4This
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby TooOld4This » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:27 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
Yes, especially on the lateral side. So far this year, we have hired 20 laterals. It is still rough for students, but firms are still hiring entry levels and starting to discuss increasing class sizes a bit. Moving our student recruiting to 3L hiring let us include more in the program this year and I expect the same for next. The market is trending upward but we are no where near pre-2008 numbers, nor do I expect firms to ever get there again (IMHO).


Seems like a ton of firms are hiring laterals. Frankly this is pretty scary as a law student... I'm concerned about no-offers next summer because needs were filled by surplus laterals.


For large firms, this should not be a concern. Large firms need associates at every billing level. The uptick in lateral hiring has to do with how their current staffing at any "class year" matches with their work flow. The fact that a firm is hiring a bunch of mid-level associates will not impact SA hiring. Lateral hiring meets current need. SA hiring meets prospective need. Generally, most large firms would like to meet their first year associate needs with SAs -- these are the people that they have already vetted and seen some work product from.

Anonymous User
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:24 am

How do you feel 3L OCI is going to go this coming fall?

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romothesavior
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Re: Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit

Postby romothesavior » Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:55 am

c3pO4 wrote:Seems like a ton of firms are hiring laterals. Frankly this is pretty scary as a law student... I'm concerned about no-offers next summer because needs were filled by surplus laterals.

This is not at all how legal hiring works. Current 2Ls are being hired to start work in 2-2.5 years. Current laterals are being brought in ASAP to fill a specific need. If anything, the lateral market is hot because of the lack of SAs a few years ago. The timeline doesn't really overlap with us. Additionally, the type of work that a 3rd-5th year associate is typically doing is not really the same as a first year (although obviously some of the stuff will overlap). The midlevel laterals are being brought in to fill very specific needs and do things that a first year cannot do. That's why they are required to go out and get laterals in the first place, and not just hire some first year associate to do fifth year work.

It's really a non-issue. Try to focus on grades/networking/etc. and don't worry about this kind of stuff.

edit: scooped... poster above me nailed it.




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