Law firm recruiter answering questions for a bit Forum

[nymario]

I am an older student with an unusual former career. I like my two page resume. Career services says get it to a page. Who's right?

I was in your situation as well. I walked in convinced my 2-pager was fine. I have 10+ years of work experience including military service and then some related national security work after my uniformed time was up. I felt that I had a lot to say including my pro-bono advocacy and research assistance work during 1L year/summer. He convinced me to try one page, and now that I have the one page version to compare, I am totally a believer. It is much more impressive looking in this version. The breadth of experience is much more compelling when presented this way, rather than forcing them to turn a page. PM me email address if you want to see.

[Kronk]

LOL @ this question. Pretend you sent an introduction email without any attachments to a law firm recruiter asking if they would be willing to talk in any form about their summer program and practice. You receive back a "After carefully reviewing your application we cannot extend an interview to you" email. Should you respond with transcripts, resume, cover letter, etc., point out that you haven't sent them, or let it go? How would you approach that?

This happened to a "friend" of mine just now.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Do screening interviewers make CB decisions on the spot (after seeing the GPA and determining the candidate is socially normal), or do they bring their notes back to the firm where the hiring partner/committee eventually makes the decision based on the qualification and overall firm needs?

Also, if I have a contact in the firm (former partner), how do I take advantage of that? Do I put this person's name in the reference list and attach it to the resume, or do I simply ask the person to call the firm or do whatever he can? And if the latter is appropriate, at what point do I ask for the favor?

Our screeners make initial recommendations about who to bring in but they don't make decisions on the spot.

I would suggest you call your contact and let them know you are applying and would like to use them as a reference. They can then make the call about how best to get your name to the appropriate person.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

LOL @ this question. Pretend you sent an introduction email without any attachments to a law firm recruiter asking if they would be willing to talk in any form about their summer program and practice. You receive back a "After carefully reviewing your application we cannot extend an interview to you" email. Should you respond with transcripts, resume, cover letter, etc., point out that you haven't sent them, or let it go? How would you approach that?

This happened to a "friend" of mine just now.

Ha! Sounds like you got a robo - response ... If you have a contact at the firm, send them your info and ask for an informational interview. Otherwise, it sounds like the firm is not hiring and you should move on.

[Anonymous User]

Is one required to have the year one graduates from undergraduate and grad school(not law school) on the resume?

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Is one required to have the year one graduates from undergraduate and grad school(not law school) on the resume?

Not required, but appreciated. It helps with looking at your timeline of education and experience.

[Anonymous User]

Boalt prohibits listing academic distinctions (top 10% etc) or GPA on a resume...is it worthwhile to include High Honor grades (top 10% of each class) on the resume even though it will be listed on the transcript?

[Anonymous User]

Is one required to have the year one graduates from undergraduate and grad school(not law school) on the resume?

Not required, but appreciated. It helps with looking at your timeline of education and experience.

Thank you.

[Anonymous User]

If you see someone's rank on their resume, do you really care about the GPA # itself? I ask because my school has a different curve for every section. My section has a lower curve than any other, so I have a higher rank than other people from other sections who actually have objectively higher GPA's. I almost want to leave off my GPA number itself and just put my rank, since I don't want to confuse anyone. When a recruiter looks at a resume, do you immediately hone in on the class rank? Or would it be advisable to make sure the objective # GPA is there as well? I'm not sure how much each number "matters" to a recruiter.

From your perspective, what would you be thinking to yourself if, during an interview, the applicant tells you that he has been in touch with alums of his school who work in the firm. He tells you that he contacted them to learn more about the firm and get a feel from the inside. Does this actually count for something (i.e. showing that the person is proactive and truly interested in the firm)? Or does it not really make any difference?

[Ele]

Happy to answer questions for a bit regarding resumes, job searches,etc. All responses are just one person's point of view ...

During the interview, is salary discussed? If so. . . please elaborate. If not, then when?

Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure?

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward?

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed?

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K?

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes?

A hundred thanks!

[Kronk]

lol @ going to a "T4" school. Why not just say Columbia?

[Kilpatrick]

Yeah I read that like 5 times trying to figure out if someone at a TTTT was really asking if they could negotiate for 200K

[kaiser]

Happy to answer questions for a bit regarding resumes, job searches,etc. All responses are just one person's point of view ...

During the interview, is salary discussed? If so. . . please elaborate. If not, then when?

Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure?

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward?

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed?

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K?

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes?

A hundred thanks!

I hope the majority of this is just you joking around. Can they successfully "up the ante closer to $200K"? Are you kidding me? I get the sinking feeling that you aren't joking. For someone that smart, how can you possibly be that dumb?

[ToTransferOrNot]

Happy to answer questions for a bit regarding resumes, job searches,etc. All responses are just one person's point of view ...

During the interview, is salary discussed? If so. . . please elaborate. If not, then when?

Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure?

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward?

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed?

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K?

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes?

A hundred thanks!

.impliedfacepalm.jpg

[lawfirmrecruiter]

If you see someone's rank on their resume, do you really care about the GPA # itself? I ask because my school has a different curve for every section. My section has a lower curve than any other, so I have a higher rank than other people from other sections who actually have objectively higher GPA's. I almost want to leave off my GPA number itself and just put my rank, since I don't want to confuse anyone. When a recruiter looks at a resume, do you immediately hone in on the class rank? Or would it be advisable to make sure the objective # GPA is there as well? I'm not sure how much each number "matters" to a recruiter.

From your perspective, what would you be thinking to yourself if, during an interview, the applicant tells you that he has been in touch with alums of his school who work in the firm. He tells you that he contacted them to learn more about the firm and get a feel from the inside. Does this actually count for something (i.e. showing that the person is proactive and truly interested in the firm)? Or does it not really make any difference?

The whole point about looking at your GPA and/or class rank is to get an idea about how you are doing in school and if you really get it. That said, if the GPA is missing, we will usually just have to ask for it anyway. I would list both and have your class rank explain your position. Make sense?

I like it when applicants reach out to alums. It shows they are actually interested in us and want to learn more as opposed to just being one of 100 firms you would be interested in.

[Anonymous User]

Happy to answer questions for a bit regarding resumes, job searches,etc. All responses are just one person's point of view ...

During the interview, is salary discussed? If so. . . please elaborate. If not, then when?

Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure?

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward?

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed?

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K?

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes?

A hundred thanks!

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:


Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure? Depends on the market. Some have kept it, some have lowered it.

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward? See answer above.

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed? It is no longer like shooting fish in a barrel. There are about 1/2 the number of positions for students that there were pre-recession and those wanting jobs need to work hard to get them. Regardless of the school you attend.

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K? Wow. The answer to this is no. I don't know any firm that will negotiate with students and give them a higher salary. None, nada, zero chance.

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate. It is not contractual. We are in a right-to-work state and employment is at-will. On both sides.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes? If you are seeking a litigation role, it is very important.

[lawfirmrecruiter]

Happy to answer questions for a bit regarding resumes, job searches,etc. All responses are just one person's point of view ...

During the interview, is salary discussed? If so. . . please elaborate. If not, then when?

Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure?

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward?

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed?

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K?

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes?

A hundred thanks!

HIT THE WRONG BUTTON AGAIN. THIS WAS MY REPLY:

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:

Given the economy, is $160K still the normal Big Law starting figure? Depends on the market. Some have kept it, some have lowered it.

If a NYC firm has offices in other cities, can I requests the smaller market, if so, is the pay adjusted downward? See answer above.

Coming from a T-4 school, I read that (during pre-recession times) interviewing for a Big Law job was like “shooting fish in a barrel.” How much has that changed? It is no longer like shooting fish in a barrel. There are about 1/2 the number of positions for students that there were pre-recession and those wanting jobs need to work hard to get them. Regardless of the school you attend.

Someone from a T-4 with good grades, who interviews well, etc., can they successfully up the ante closer to $200K? Wow. The answer to this is no. I don't know any firm that will negotiate with students and give them a higher salary. None, nada, zero chance.

When you offer someone a position, is it contractual. . . please elaborate. It is not contractual. We are in a right-to-work state and employment is at-will. On both sides.

Finally, if I have Law Review I am sure I would bring it up. If not, how important are moot court successes? If you are seeking a litigation role, it is very important.

[Anonymous User]

Let's say somebody wrote you an e-mail, telling you that they attend a Top 6 school and that they would like to interview with your firm while they're still in town for the summer since you don't come to their OCI. They tell you that they have strong interest in the firm and attach a resume (that lists pretty impressive grades but nothing out-of-this-world). Is that enough for you to get back from them, or do you want something more, e.g. "Alumni Dan, a partner at your firm, requested that I contact you regarding an interview....." I understand the latter would be more persuasive, I'm just wondering if it's necessary for that extra hook in order to get a response.

[Ele]

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!

Thank you for your reply. Especially the part where I need to be very grateful if I hear a figure close to $160K!

The question that was not answered regarded when to discuss pay. Do you lay it out for the candidate, or do we have to go fishing for it? In short, when is the preferred time to discuss pay?

Again, a hundred thanks!

[Ele]

Yeah I read that like 5 times trying to figure out if someone at a TTTT was really asking if they could negotiate for 200K

Hope this does not come as a shock but there is a difference between Tier-4 and T-4 (unfortunately it is usually referred to as T-6).

[Helmholtz]

Yeah I read that like 5 times trying to figure out if someone at a TTTT was really asking if they could negotiate for 200K

Hope this does not come as a shock but there is a difference between Tier-4 and T-4 (unfortunately it is usually referred to as T-6).

T-4 is not a thing just like T-7 or T-11 or T-31 are not. Columbia is sure as hell not in the same league as HYS.

[Aston2412]

Yeah I read that like 5 times trying to figure out if someone at a TTTT was really asking if they could negotiate for 200K

Hope this does not come as a shock but there is a difference between Tier-4 and T-4 (unfortunately it is usually referred to as T-6).

Accepted form is usually to say T6 or CCN. By saying T4 you're signifying Columbia. Because otherwise you would have said HYS or T3. So why didn't you just say Columbia? That's the point they are trying to make.

Also if you're interviewing at any NALP firm, which I'm assuming you want to since you're looking for 200k salary, you can find that information on the NALP directory. I can't think of any BigLaw firms off the top of my head that don't provide salary information on their NALP form. Also, salary is not negotiable. The point is before you go into a BigLaw interview you should know exactly what it pays its first year associates. If you have to ask you haven't done your research.

Also, some satellite offices pay less than their HQs or offices in larger markets. Again, this can all be found on NALP.

[D-hops]

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!

Thank you for your reply. Especially the part where I need to be very grateful if I hear a figure close to $160K!

The question that was not answered regarded when to discuss pay. Do you lay it out for the candidate, or do we have to go fishing for it? In short, when is the preferred time to discuss pay?

Again, a hundred thanks!

http://www.nalpdirectory.com

[BeenDidThat]

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!

Thank you for your reply. Especially the part where I need to be very grateful if I hear a figure close to $160K!

The question that was not answered regarded when to discuss pay. Do you lay it out for the candidate, or do we have to go fishing for it? In short, when is the preferred time to discuss pay?

Again, a hundred thanks!

If you're hellbent on making more than 160, get yourself some killer grades and shackle thyself to one of the ships that are lit boutiques.

WARNING: You will have to work a fuckton, and if you have half as silly an attitude as you've displayed in this thread, lit boutique folks are going to love telling you to shut up.

I mean, the tone of your posts in this thread shows that you are either: (1) (and this is what I'm banking on) extraordinarily entitled and sheltered; (2) uninformed as to how the legal job market operates; or (3) a complete lunatic.

[Helmholtz]

On the offhand chance this is a serious question here goes:

Probably not as serious as it will be in a year from now!

Thank you for your reply. Especially the part where I need to be very grateful if I hear a figure close to $160K!

The question that was not answered regarded when to discuss pay. Do you lay it out for the candidate, or do we have to go fishing for it? In short, when is the preferred time to discuss pay?

Again, a hundred thanks!

If you're hellbent on making more than 160, get yourself some killer grades and shackle thyself to one of the ships that are lit boutiques.

WARNING: You will have to work a fuckton, and if you have half as silly an attitude as you've displayed in this thread, lit boutique folks are going to love telling you to shut up.

I hear that telling Boies you want more than their standard $174k give you an auto-offer.