3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

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3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:59 am

3L here, had a very bad first year at MVBP, finished only top 40% and struck out. Have since improved my grades to top 20% of the class.

I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with mass mailing as a 3L? I was stupid do not do it last year as I saw many people land jobs through this method. Because the drop off from Biglaw to other Law is probably 110k a year I will be putting every ounce of strength into this. I plan on mailing around 120 firms, so I'm just wondering if it's worth a shot before killing a few trees.

FWIW, I'm mainly interested in litigation. Plan on targetting NYC, LA, and a third market (any ideas, all the other markets seem brutal).

Thanks for reading, and feel free to post here to discuss.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:30 am

I wouldn't characterize top 40% as "very bad." I mean... if that's the case, how would you characterize the 60% below you?

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blurbz
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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby blurbz » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:41 am

"Even Worse"

:-p

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:3L here, had a very bad first year at MVBP, finished only top 40% and struck out. Have since improved my grades to top 20% of the class.

I'm wondering if anyone has had any success with mass mailing as a 3L? I was stupid do not do it last year as I saw many people land jobs through this method. Because the drop off from Biglaw to other Law is probably 110k a year I will be putting every ounce of strength into this. I plan on mailing around 120 firms, so I'm just wondering if it's worth a shot before killing a few trees.

FWIW, I'm mainly interested in litigation. Plan on targetting NYC, LA, and a third market (any ideas, all the other markets seem brutal).

Thanks for reading, and feel free to post here to discuss.


I'm at a T20 and around the median. I'll put it to you how someone else put it to me. "What do you have to lose by doing it? A few days of your time spent getting everything together. What do you have to lose by not doing it? Potentially 120k a year. You do the math..."

I'm also looking at mailing around 100+ firms (admittedly I'm a 2L, so things may be a little different) and am targeting NY, DC and Boston. With the way class sizes have rebounded this year, there's really no reason not to take the shot. Cast a wide enough net and you have far better chances of getting some fish than casting no net at all.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:19 am

I'm in the same situation as OP. Are you planning on sending letters or emails? I was thinking that I'll be sending mine via email.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:34 am

OP here, perhaps its superstition but I applied to probably 80 positions via email last year and ONE via mail. The only job I got: the mailing.

Bottom line:
I think mailing shows two things:
1. You cared enough to put some effort into building an application beyond clicking a few buttons.
2. It's hard to throw away. It's a physical thing that arrives on desk. Email can just as easily be deleted with one click or simply passed over.

So, I will mail, GL above poster.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:33 am

If certain firms require an online app, will any of you be applying online or will you still send mail or email?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:21 am

Whats going in your mailing package?
I was thinking resume, cover letter, references, transcript, but no writing sample

Is this the general consensus?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby harborleaguemvp » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:24 am

Same position. When is the appropriate time to mass mail, late July, early August?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:35 am

Rising 3Ls really should keep a tally of their mass mails for future reference, like the OCI results thread, maybe something like this:

School Range:
1L Rank:
2L Rank:
Journal/LR: (secondary journal, main law review, or no journal)
Moot Court:
2L biglaw SA:
If not 2L SA, 2L summer position: (fed gov, state gov, small firm, in-house, PI, RA, judge)
Other work experience:

Number of firms mailed:
Dates mailed:
Firm types: (V10, V50, midlaw, small law, etc.)
Markets:
Snail mail/email:
Materials included:
Sent to: (HR, hiring partner, alumni)
Strategy: (Did you write targeted cover letters? If so, how much customizing did you do? Did you follow up with a phone call?)
Interviews:
Offers:
Rejection Letters:
Last edited by timbs4339 on Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:48 am

timbs4339 wrote:Rising 3Ls really should keep a tally of their mass mails for future reference, like the OCI results thread, maybe something like this:

School Range:
1L Rank:
2L Rank:
Journal/LR: (secondary journal, main law review, or no journal)
Moot Court:
2L biglaw SA:
If not 2L SA, 2L summer position: (fed gov, state gov, small firm, in-house, PI, RA, judge)
Other work experience:

Number of firms mailed:
Dates mailed:
Firm types: (V10, V50, midlaw, small law, etc.)
Markets:
Snail mail/email:
Materials included:
Sent to: (HR, hiring partner, alumni)
Strategy: (Targeted cover letters or resumes, follow up with phone call)
Interviews:
Offers:
Rejection Letters:


couple of questions:
1)including transcript + writing sample when mass mailing?
2) target to specific practice area + target to that specific firm? or target to specific practice area is sufficient?

thanks

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Rising 3Ls really should keep a tally of their mass mails for future reference, like the OCI results thread, maybe something like this:

School Range:
1L Rank:
2L Rank:
Journal/LR: (secondary journal, main law review, or no journal)
Moot Court:
2L biglaw SA:
If not 2L SA, 2L summer position: (fed gov, state gov, small firm, in-house, PI, RA, judge)
Other work experience:

Number of firms mailed:
Dates mailed:
Firm types: (V10, V50, midlaw, small law, etc.)
Markets:
Snail mail/email:
Materials included:
Sent to: (HR, hiring partner, alumni)
Strategy: (Targeted cover letters or resumes, follow up with phone call)
Interviews:
Offers:
Rejection Letters:


couple of questions:
1)including transcript + writing sample when mass mailing?
2) target to specific practice area + target to that specific firm? or target to specific practice area is sufficient?

thanks


1) I think that would go under materials sent. I'm still deciding whether to send along the transcript. No writing sample though.
2) Could be targeting specific practice area, firm, location, anything. Basically whether you wrote custom letters for each firm, different letters for firms fitting certain criteria (litigation boutique, big corporate firm in NYC, etc) or one generic letter. Changed it to make clearer.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby gwuorbust » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:09 pm

why are you only going to be sending 150?

you should consider sending 1000+

sound crazy? It's not. You have nothing to lose. For every 100 physical resumes, also send 200 emails. Send 300 applications per month: August, Sep, Oct, etc.. until you land something. And keep doing other normal strategies. Keep at it until you get something or until you are forced into temp work or a ticket clinic. Obviously the two latter options are not why you went to law school. You should keep that in mind when you consider how boring or hopeless sending a lot of applications is.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:35 pm

We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby NYC Law » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:41 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


Would the same approach apply to 1Ls looking for something over summer? Or does the near impossibility of getting a 1L SA warrant blanketing?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:48 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


On the off chance you aren't flame, do you prefer snail mail or email?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:49 pm

NYC Law wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


Would the same approach apply to 1Ls looking for something over summer? Or does the near impossibility of getting a 1L SA warrant blanketing?



1L job availability really depends on the market. Those positions are pretty scarce so the personal approach is even more important. Even though I may not hire 1Ls, I will remember the ones I met with individually when the time comes for me to hire them as a 2 or 3L.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:53 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


On the off chance you aren't flame, do you prefer snail mail or email?


Personally I prefer email. Easier to save your resume in my document management system to search for it later and send around to partners that might be interested. The paper just has to be scanned and adds another step. If you go the email route, though, put your coverletter info in the body of the e-mail. It should still be as formal as if you were sending a letter.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby NYC Law » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:54 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


On the off chance you aren't flame, do you prefer snail mail or email?


Personally I prefer email. Easier to save your resume in my document management system to search for it later and send around to partners that might be interested. The paper just has to be scanned and adds another step. If you go the email route, though, put your coverletter info in the body of the e-mail. It should still be as formal as if you were sending a letter.


Would it hurt to just attach it as a PDF and keep the email body more concise (but formal)?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Aston2412 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:59 pm

gwuorbust wrote:why are you only going to be sending 150?

you should consider sending 1000+

sound crazy? It's not. You have nothing to lose. For every 100 physical resumes, also send 200 emails. Send 300 applications per month: August, Sep, Oct, etc.. until you land something. And keep doing other normal strategies. Keep at it until you get something or until you are forced into temp work or a ticket clinic. Obviously the two latter options are not why you went to law school. You should keep that in mind when you consider how boring or hopeless sending a lot of applications is.


Is it good form to keep this up through OCI? I mean if it's November and offers have already been made don't you run the risk of alienating someone you might want to try and reconnect with during 3L OCI?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:03 pm

NYC Law wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


On the off chance you aren't flame, do you prefer snail mail or email?


Personally I prefer email. Easier to save your resume in my document management system to search for it later and send around to partners that might be interested. The paper just has to be scanned and adds another step. If you go the email route, though, put your coverletter info in the body of the e-mail. It should still be as formal as if you were sending a letter.


Would it hurt to just attach it as a PDF and keep the email body more concise (but formal)?


Would not hurt at all. Just keep everything formal. I have actually gotten applications from students and attorneys that only say, "Please find my resume attached." Okay, why and for what? Delete.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:08 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:Would not hurt at all. Just keep everything formal. I have actually gotten applications from students and attorneys that only say, "Please find my resume attached." Okay, why and for what? Delete.



If I want to attach the cover letter by pdf, should the formal body of the email include any more information than my name, school, the position I am applying for, attachments, and my contact information?

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby gwuorbust » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:18 pm

Aston2412 wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:why are you only going to be sending 150?

you should consider sending 1000+

sound crazy? It's not. You have nothing to lose. For every 100 physical resumes, also send 200 emails. Send 300 applications per month: August, Sep, Oct, etc.. until you land something. And keep doing other normal strategies. Keep at it until you get something or until you are forced into temp work or a ticket clinic. Obviously the two latter options are not why you went to law school. You should keep that in mind when you consider how boring or hopeless sending a lot of applications is.


Is it good form to keep this up through OCI? I mean if it's November and offers have already been made don't you run the risk of alienating someone you might want to try and reconnect with during 3L OCI?


I was mostly talking about the OP, who is a 3L.

for 2Ls, I think you should get most of your biglaw apps sent before OCI season is over. as for midlaw and small law, however, most are not listed on NALP and do not hire according to the the usual biglaw schedule. So I do not think you risk offending.

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Re: 3L Mass Mailing (success stories/ mail merger) topic

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:59 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
lawfirmrecruiter wrote:We have certainly hired 3Ls that have contacted us via mail but you need to find a way to make a personal connection from the beginning. Your best bet will be to target your mailings to alumni from your school that work at the firms you are sending letters to and try to get an informational interview with them set up. This will take more time, but will be a much more successful approach than just blanketing every firm with a form letter and resume.


On the off chance you aren't flame, do you prefer snail mail or email?


Personally I prefer email. Easier to save your resume in my document management system to search for it later and send around to partners that might be interested. The paper just has to be scanned and adds another step. If you go the email route, though, put your coverletter info in the body of the e-mail. It should still be as formal as if you were sending a letter.


sounds like it will be ok if my resume was more than one page in length? b/c u are gonna be electronically scanning for keywords anyways? and I have a lot of work experience.




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