cornell employment stats question

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
saladfiend
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:19 pm

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby saladfiend » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:17 pm

Vanderbilt. You have a very generous offer, and it is a peer school of Cornell.

There are other factors at play here, too. Do you want to live in Ithaca for three years?

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8442
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:39 pm

Rock-N-Roll wrote:If you were correct in your claim that the total students applied denominator was irrelevant because "at almost every school with a major OCI almost every student is attempting to get at least a summer in big law" then what would you make of this graph?

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/619e48c024.jpg

According to it, in 2009 percentage-wise Yale had the lowest overall NLJ 250 placement out of the entire T14 and Harvard placed fewer overall than NU which by the way had the second strongest placement overall. That doesn't seem right, and I think this data strongly suggests therefore that in '09 a higher percentage of students at Yale and Harvard chose to do other things besides big law, which strongly goes against your anecdotal argument.


Your graph shows where GRADUATES end up - not where they go 2L summer, much less where they apply. Yalies are off clerking, and almost every single clerk worked at a firm 2L summer. On top of that, I have already met plenty of people working big firm jobs this summer and planning on not returning to a firm even with an offer, and others who went through OCI but declined to work for a firm.

At almost every school, almost every student does OCI. Your hypothetical is silly. It's not a personal insult.

User avatar
Rock-N-Roll
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:16 pm

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:01 am

thesealocust wrote:
Your graph shows where GRADUATES end up - not where they go 2L summer, much less where they apply. Yalies are off clerking, and almost every single clerk worked at a firm 2L summer. On top of that, I have already met plenty of people working big firm jobs this summer and planning on not returning to a firm even with an offer, and others who went through OCI but declined to work for a firm.

At almost every school, almost every student does OCI. Your hypothetical is silly. It's not a personal insult.


I think I get what you're trying to say above.

While I believe it would be useful to applicants if law schools not only reported the percentage of graduates who were offered big law employment but also the percentage who applied to big law, you're point is that that statistic would be irrelevant because essentially everyone goes through OCI at all schools.

I brought the employment data to try and show that what you are saying doesn't fit that data, and as I understand it you're response is that that graph doesn't truly capture OCI numbers as many HY students will apply for and get SAs but then go on to other things.

I think though we're getting lost in the OCI distinction. I'm not as interested in OCI stats per se as I am in how many students who wanted big law employment got big law employment, and I still feel that that number probably does vary from top school to top school.

User avatar
observationalist
Posts: 472
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:55 pm

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby observationalist » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:54 pm

As someone else said, a really easy way to verify what those jobs actually look like is to contact the school. Let them know that you're considering attending vs. a peer program but that it's contingent upon seeing the full employer list for the Class of 2010, and ask them to send you it. While you still won't have perfect information, seeing the names of each employer is a major improvement on how they currently present the data. You'll never be able to figure out exactly what the Cornell brand did for those graduates (for example, some people may have had opportunities you won't have based on more prestigious undergrads or family pedigrees capable of landing them in biglaw), but it will help put your questions to rest. It's the only and simplest way to answer your question about what firms are in their "Very Large" category.

I know many people in my class at Vanderbilt who chose it over Cornell without the kind of money you're being offered, but I agree you need to investigate more and figure out whether the 75K extra is worth it for you. Everyone is going to come up with a different level of risk they're comfortable with. Just keep in mind you're never going to know everything and the gamble at either program is likely going to be worse than you think it is, given what we know about how schools present the job prospects and the fact that 2011 was worse than 2010.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Vanderbilt has historically done significantly better in terms of Art III Clerkships, with I believe 14% of my class (2010) landing at least one Art III Clerkship (a few students are doing district-appellates back-to-back). But take that in stride as well: Cornell students strongly prefer the northeast market, where Art III Clerkships go to top students at higher-ranked programs. G'luck!

User avatar
FlanAl
Posts: 1474
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:53 pm

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby FlanAl » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:45 pm

hey turkeyisfat did you get anymore info from the careers office?

User avatar
theturkeyisfat
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:04 am

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby theturkeyisfat » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:49 pm

FlanAl wrote:hey turkeyisfat did you get anymore info from the careers office?


No, I had to choose whether to submit the deposit before I could talk to them.. I tried, but they were kinda hard to reach. I decided to go with Cornell though, after I saw that most of the top 30 firms recruit at Cornell while only a few recruit at Vandy.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273154
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: cornell employment stats question

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:25 am

All the top schools have played games with their numbers to make them look way better than they are and they are absolutely not reliable. I was a T14 c/o 2010 and I can tell you that just about every school was doing some special "jobs program" for unemployed grads where a grad gets a meager stipend in exchange for working for free somewhere for a specified length of time. Every school all the way up to H was doing some variation on this theme, so just because it's a "good" school you're talking about doesn't mean you can rely on their published job numbers. There are a boatload of 2010 grads still looking for decent work a year later after the $ from these programs have run out. I'm sure things are going to be about the same for a lot of c/o 2011.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.