SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:53 pm

Long story short: I've been a summer associate at a mid-sized firm (20-30 attorneys) for a month or so, and I have a feeling that I am going to get no-offered. It's a combination of many things (too much to explain here), and I feel fairly certain that I will not receive an offer at the end of the summer.

Would this be awkward to explain during the job search in the fall? I heard it's only rarely that SAs don't get an offer. What are good ways to explain this to future prospective employers? Or should I exit this firm now, find a different firm for a summer associate position in the hopes of getting an offer? If you are or have been in a similar situation, please offer your insights and advice. Thanks!!!

User avatar
thesealocust
Posts: 8447
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:56 pm

It would be impossible to leave a firm and start at another at this point. Are you a rising 1L? What makes you think you won't be getting an offer?

Offers aren't nearly as sure-thing for 1L summers, but it'd still be a black eye not to get one. Still, not all firms will even ask.

Sounds like a weird situation, and also one far too unique for the internet to be able to provide solid advice.

Sup Kid
Posts: 557
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 2:49 pm

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby Sup Kid » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Long story short: I've been a summer associate at a mid-sized firm (20-30 attorneys) for a month or so, and I have a feeling that I am going to get no-offered. It's a combination of many things (too much to explain here), and I feel fairly certain that I will not receive an offer at the end of the summer.

Would this be awkward to explain during the job search in the fall? I heard it's only rarely that SAs don't get an offer. What are good ways to explain this to future prospective employers? Or should I exit this firm now, find a different firm for a summer associate position in the hopes of getting an offer? If you are or have been in a similar situation, please offer your insights and advice. Thanks!!!

Flame (see bold). End thread.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:59 pm

I am a rising 3L. Completely serious and scared. I have a phone appointment with our Career Services early next week, but am really nervous about this situation. Any advice would be appreciated.

warumnicht
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:53 pm

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby warumnicht » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:05 am

Unless you tell us why you think you're getting no-offered, we can't really help you address the issue during the 3L interview process.

That said, people do get no-offered for many reasons, not all of which are personal, and many of them go on to find good firm positions. The explanation can be as simple as "The summer associates were hired without the expectation of getting permanent offers" or a more nuanced version of "It was not a right fit." More details would really be helpful here!

For the time being, whatever you do, try to do good work and get a positive reference from at least one of the attorneys at the firm. You do NOT want to have to explain during your interviews that no one liked you and that you were a pretty lousy summer associate.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273366
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:14 am

warumnicht wrote:Unless you tell us why you think you're getting no-offered, we can't really help you address the issue during the 3L interview process.

That said, people do get no-offered for many reasons, not all of which are personal, and many of them go on to find good firm positions. The explanation can be as simple as "The summer associates were hired without the expectation of getting permanent offers" or a more nuanced version of "It was not a right fit." More details would really be helpful here!

For the time being, whatever you do, try to do good work and get a positive reference from at least one of the attorneys at the firm. You do NOT want to have to explain during your interviews that no one liked you and that you were a pretty lousy summer associate.


Without disclosing too much, here are the two main factors that worry me:
1. The firm just laid off an attorney two weeks ago. I don't know the basis of that decision, but I am worried that they are not hiring because business is not well.
2. At the happy hour last week, a shareholder told me that I don't strike her as the "rainmaker" type, and she went on talking about how important it is that attorneys bring in business. I fear that they are judging me already.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
warumnicht wrote:Unless you tell us why you think you're getting no-offered, we can't really help you address the issue during the 3L interview process.

That said, people do get no-offered for many reasons, not all of which are personal, and many of them go on to find good firm positions. The explanation can be as simple as "The summer associates were hired without the expectation of getting permanent offers" or a more nuanced version of "It was not a right fit." More details would really be helpful here!

For the time being, whatever you do, try to do good work and get a positive reference from at least one of the attorneys at the firm. You do NOT want to have to explain during your interviews that no one liked you and that you were a pretty lousy summer associate.


Without disclosing too much, here are the two main factors that worry me:
1. The firm just laid off an attorney two weeks ago. I don't know the basis of that decision, but I am worried that they are not hiring because business is not well.
2. At the happy hour last week, a shareholder told me that I don't strike her as the "rainmaker" type, and she went on talking about how important it is that attorneys bring in business. I fear that they are judging me already.


You should be scared. An SA and not bringing in business? You deserve the no offer!

Seriously dude chill the fuck out.

User avatar
Moxie
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby Moxie » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:21 am

warumnicht wrote:Unless you tell us why you think you're getting no-offered, we can't really help you address the issue during the 3L interview process.

That said, people do get no-offered for many reasons, not all of which are personal, and many of them go on to find good firm positions. The explanation can be as simple as "The summer associates were hired without the expectation of getting permanent offers" or a more nuanced version of "It was not a right fit." More details would really be helpful here!

For the time being, whatever you do, try to do good work and get a positive reference from at least one of the attorneys at the firm. You do NOT want to have to explain during your interviews that no one liked you and that you were a pretty lousy summer associate.


The bolded! The summer is only a month old at most, you should still have time to improve your work product and work as hard as possible to get an offer!!!

User avatar
Lwoods
Posts: 1484
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:27 am

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby Lwoods » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:51 am

My standard disclaimer: I'm an 0L. However, I used to work at a BigLaw firm in NY and have had a number of conversations around recruiting and the no-offer issue specifically.


First, you can't know that you're getting no-offered. Take the criticism that you've received as an opportunity to prove the critic(s) wrong. No SA is going to be expected to be bringing in clients, but the regular (as in, not summer) associates who don't make partner/get laid off are those who don't have the charisma to deal with clients and thus the ability to bring in and keep business. Law is a service profession, so those who are good with people have an easier time.

Another concern you had was around how many offers they'll give overall, if any and/or the ability of the firm to take on new hires. If you're no-offered because they don't give any offers, then the 3L job search should go easier for you. Firms will want to know why you were no-offered and "no SA at [Firm X] was given an offer" is a pretty good reason. It reflects poorly on the firm and not you. I imagine it will only be slightly more difficult if your firm's offer rate is something like 25%. Because many of the big firms are being more conservative with their summer class sizes, there are slots to be filled by 3Ls.

However, in the highly unlikely event that you are no-offered while the majority of your SA class does receive offers, you will need to be very aggressive in your 3L job search. If you have other skills, leverage those in the appropriate industries. Think outside the law firm box and network like crazy with your friends in other industries. But don't worry about that yet. Be prepared to do so in the case that you are no-offered, but concentrate your focus now on being a stellar SA that your firm will want to extend and offer to.

Best of luck!

BenJ
Posts: 1353
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:58 pm

Re: SA: if being no-offered is certain, what to do?

Postby BenJ » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:28 am

If you do get no-offered (which I don't think is at all guaranteed right now), you can also ask the firm for a null offer. That is, they say to everyone else that they offered you a position, but you are in fact not offered a position. Then you can do your subsequent search saying that, while you appreciated the firm you worked for, you're looking for some practice area they don't do or a different geographic location or somewhere with more career opportunities or whatever. This is frequently done in cases where the behavior resulting in the no-offer is not egregious.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.