Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:49 pm

this is one of the best threads ever on tls.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby TaipeiMort » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:55 pm

Today I went to the hospital with stress issues and couldn't shake the weird effects they was having on my heart.

Then I logged onto top law schools, read this, and laughed so hard I cried. Then all of my chest pressure and heart palpitations were gone!

Thank you so much!

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crossarmant
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby crossarmant » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:03 pm

Fresh out of college in Fall of 2009 I did some document review in Richmond, VA. There are a few large firms and corporate legal depts that do it around here and recruit non-JDs as well as JDs.

In my experience, a lot of the attorneys around here stuck with jobs in Doc Review are from TTTTs like Appalachian, Regent, etc. There were a few older ones from like U of Maryland, Mich State, etc. who lost their jobs in the crash of '08. There were a few people who failed their Bar exam from better schools, probably near the bottom of their classes. But most of them were fresh faced college grads who were buying time trying to find permanent jobs since in 2009 college grads couldn't find work anywhere.

My experiences were markedly better. Sure it's shitty and boring work, but we got a full desk to ourselves, listened to headphones, we had good enough facilities, $16/hour for non JDs, $32 for JDs, Regular hours. Though the whole "Oh, I don't know how long this will go for, maybe today is the last day" kind of schtick was common and gigs weren't always regular for the Non-JDs though the JDs there said that they tended to get one gig after another regularly.

My experience wasn't nearly as godawful as areyouinsane's, though it was less than pleasant. At LeClairRyan, associates would patrol around and peek their heads into the little rooms and try and quiet you down if you started talking. Though on another project I did with them, they were much more relaxed and they did their fair share of griping about the company, so it was variable. I did some doc review with a "Corporate legal dept with a bad rep", and they were awful. They kept regular track of the number of docs you got through and would post them up with a "goal" line. All those below the goal line would get pulled all the way to the other side of the complex into a small office with 4 associates and given a stern talking to, that if their numbers didn't improve they're out on the streets. Mind you only about 4 people out of 60 were above this line. When they let go of people from the project, they didn't simply dismiss you, they'd pull you into a room tell you that you were pretty much a failure, declare that you were fired and have escorted out of the building by security.

But there was also another corporate legal dept that I worked for (not doing doc review, but subpoena fulfillment), was there for 7 months and it was always a pleasure. They had a great facility, had a full cubicle, pretty much integrated as a full staff member, got plenty of lee-way, etc. Though, I got the flu after being there for 7 months, missed three days, came back with a doctors note (Out of pocket, since no health insurance) and they terminated me the next day without any reason nor any prior complaints.... a little bs about the termination, but other than that it wasn't a bad gig.

All in all, its a crap shoot on if it's terrible or not. Though, I will say, if I graduate law school and am stuck doing doc review with no prospect of better I'll either 1. Move to BFE and do solo work, 2. Flee the country.

Though, I have worked in the gutter of the legal field, I've done much worse work. It's a million times better than 95% of the jobs out there and compensates much better than Starbucks and is less stressful than being a bank teller. That and of all the lawyers I've met, few of them complain about the compensation, just some of the assholes they deal with, but what job will you get where you don't interact with assholes on a daily basis?

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Lwoods
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Lwoods » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:08 pm

re-applicant wrote:flame or not, someone get areyouinsane a book deal ASAP


No joke. It'd be to law what House of God is to medicine.

schooner
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby schooner » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:23 pm

Holy shit. I feel like all undergrads thinking about law school and 0Ls should be forced to read this thread as a warning.

By the way, areyouinsane, what are you expecting the move overseas to do to your debt? Obviously, you're doing it to get away from creditors so they can't harass you, but the debt will always be there. (Private lenders might give up trying to collect after a long time, but not the federal govt -?) I mean, are you expecting to never come back to the US? Also, I guess 2004 grads aren't eligible for the new loan repayment programs for low-income PI workers?

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Paraflam
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Paraflam » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:44 pm

areyouinsane wrote:I will have to say that, in many cases, the doc reviewers don't do themselves any favors by usually abusing, exploiting, or otherwise f-ing up any little privileges the firms give them. For example, at Paul Weiss they have a really great cafeteria called the "Jury Room." They gave the coders $10 a day in credits to use in there- it was a little card that they punched each time you used it. The prices in there were cheap- they have a grill section and you can get a small delmonico steak with 'fixins for about $7 (this was in 2005). I ate the steak every day and it was always very tasty and often downright delicious. I eat my steaks Pittsburgh rare, and the grill guy got to know me and called me "p-burg" and always made my steak just the way I liked it. We used to roll up there as a gang and play "Price is Right." In this game you have to get as close as possible to the $10 food limit w/out going over (cause you have to pay out o pocket if you exceed the $10 food card limit). Some things like salad are sold by weight, so the game can get dicey if you start loading up with croutons and such.

The sodas, coffee etc are all free in this cafeteria. You can just grab a cup and have as much as you want. You can see where this is going. This one really dirty guy we called "ShitFingers" (because he never washed his hands after taking a dump- there were like 10 witnesses to this fact) goes up there to get a soda, but he's pressing on the little bar that makes the soda come out with a glass he'd already used and had like slobbered all over. So this old lady next to him says "did you already use that glass- if you did that's gross, you're getting your spit on the soda fountain." It was kinda gross, the glass had like mayo and shit smeared all over it.

So ShitFingers gets into this huge argument with her and they have it out there at the soda fountain (most of these coders have bad tempers and get offended at the drop of a hat). Turns out she was a partner- oops. So the next day the agency guy comes into the basement and says we can't use the cafeteria anymore. The agency said we would get a non-taxable $10 added to our checks so we could get food from outside. Goodbye delmonico steak- hello street meat. The only good thing about this is that we got to meet Rachel Ray- there is a really good Halal food cart at 56th st and one day her and her film crew rolled up and offered to buy everyone in line lunch who let her cut in front of them. In real life she is literally like 4 feet tall. She was also smoking a cigarette.

The other problem with getting banned from the cafeteria was that everyone was now eating at their workstation. We were in the basement under the Rock Center, down in the bowels of the building with the furnaces and HVAC equipement, etc. With all the food garbage from like 200 coders eating down there, the place got infested with cockroaches. They were even crawling inside the computers and such. So Paul Weiss had the place roach-bombed and the day after the dead roaches were everywhere- on the keyboards, in the printers, all over the floor. Pretty gross. Even ShitFingers thought it was a little too dirty, even for him.

I forgot to mention that we weren't allowed upstairs period after ShitFingers pissed off the partner with his soda fountain debacle. So we couldn't use the Paul Weiss bathrooms- we had to use the public bathroom in the Rock Center. It only had one stall and a homeless dude named "Bones" pretty much lived in there and would holler "i'm in here motherfucker" every time you went to take a leak. So everyone started using the Heartland Breweries bathroom, which was pretty dirty too.

Anyway, that was a JD project- you didn't have to be admitted to work the gig. Because of that we only got $21 an hour. Most everyone there was waiting to get admitted to NY, because the minute you did you could jump to a SullCrom gig which paid $32 an hour plus OT. I got admitted right after the roach bomb, and was at SullCrom the day after getting NY Bar admission up in albany. After Paul Weiss, the SullCrom cellar was like a 5 star hotel. At Sullivan the coders have their own bathroom, break rooms, and even a little kitchen to use. That makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like "steerage" on those old ships- hell, would you want a dirty old TTT colder coming upstairs to use the firm's associate-level facilities? Of course not. Sullivan thus gives their coders their own little basement "world" which they never have to leave.

It was really funny one day about 3 years ago when I was starting a gig at SullCrom. My project was starting the same day that the SA class was starting, and they had this big reception table set up in the lobby with 'Welcome Class of '08" or whatever. I went up to the table and told them I was there for the doc review gig- they actually told me to wait outside and they'd come get us when the SA's had cleared the lobby! God forbid a TTT grad contaminate their little party!

Later in the day they took all the SA's to the basement (i think they were getting a grand tour of the firm) and the associate was telling them "these are all just temps." The SA's looked at us like we were animals in a zoo or something, it was degrading in kind of a funny way though. In doc review you work at whatever spare broom closet, furnace room, or other hovel they stick you in (manhattan office space is pricey and why waste good $$$ on space for TTT loser temps?) On big projects you literally sit elbow-to-elbow with each other, for up to 16 hours a day. You also have to use the beat-up old furniture from the 1970s that really belongs in a dumpster. Its very much like prison, with everyone so cramped into small spaces and tensions all flaring up. Chairs are a big, big deal- sometimes a wiseass newbie will try and switch his chair with a "veteran's" chair if he gets their early that day or something. Big mistake. You see, since the furniture is all pretty much garbage, there's a real pecking order as to who gets the "best of the worst" when it comes to chair allocation. Most of the time the backrest or the swivel (or both) are broken, so if you end up with a decent chair you hang on to it for dear life. If the staff attorney or supervisor moves your seat for talking too much or causing problems, you have the right to take that chair with you to your new workstation- it's part of the "unwritten code" of the temps. I have literally seen fistfights start over people trying to nab chairs that didn't belong to them.

Another problem are those "one serve coffee" machines that are often in the break room. You know those "Green Mountain" machines with the little one-serve pods? Being dirt poor, the coders are prone to "hoarding," and the popular flavors like hazelnut will often vanish the second the case/box is opened. That's because some coders will take like 50 of them and hide them near their workstation, usually in a file cabinet or under document boxes, etc. So usually all that's left for coffee is like Dark French Roast Decaf and other crap flavors. Another big thing is the take-out menu folder. There are certain Chinese restaurants that rarely give out menus, so people are very fussy about keeping the "rare" menus in the folder. It is very bad form to take that menu from the folder to your desk, because if you lose it it's the only one we had. Also do not write on the menu, ever, unless it's something funny.

This is gold. I was in tears laughing

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reasonable_man
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:14 pm

I recently saw this pathetic mouth breathing loser that graduated my year from my ultra TTT. She was one of those LS girls that was about a 5 or 6 out in the real world, but because she was in law school with other loser-chicks, thought she was like a 7 or an 8 and let it go right to her head. Anyway, she claimed, at cocktail hour, that she works at V10 firm. I was immediately suspicious (actually, I knew right away she was full of shit, but held back). She was talking all about how she “brought her laptop” from work and how her “blackberry wouldn’t stop – though it appeared that she had no blackberry in tow. She was talking all about the work she does in the “mass tort” group at her firm. I should mention, that even on the level of a mouth breathing TTT grad, this girl (at least while in school), was absolutely not the brightest light on the old X-Mas tree.

Anyway, this loser got wrecked and left pretty early, leaving my best friend and some other cohorts to question her alleged employment credentials out loud, mostly because this chick seemed incapable of tying her shoe. We checked her V5 firm’s website a few days later and what do you know; she wasn’t listed. We learned a few weeks later that she works as a “discovery attorney” in her firm’s discovery department. Oh man… The laughs that we all had at this poor idiot’s expense. Real attorneys generally think less than nothing of coders/discovery lawyers (in fact, a good secretary with a GED is held in much higher esteem in the law firm world), but real attorneys think even less of a coder who lies and pretends to be human err I mean a lawyer. So for the TLSers that wind up doing document review, keep in mind that the only thing worse than a doc reviewer is a doc reviewer masquerading as an actual lawyer.

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paratactical
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby paratactical » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:16 pm

reasonable_man wrote:So for the TLSers that wind up doing document review, keep in mind that the only thing worse than a doc reviewer is a doc reviewer masquerading as an actual lawyer.


Dude, as a paralegal in NYC biglaw, I made more money hourly and got more respect than the people I babysat doing contract doc review.

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reasonable_man
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:19 pm

paratactical wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:So for the TLSers that wind up doing document review, keep in mind that the only thing worse than a doc reviewer is a doc reviewer masquerading as an actual lawyer.


Dude, as a paralegal in NYC biglaw, I made more money hourly and got more respect than the people I babysat doing contract doc review.


Oh I have absolutely no problem believing that at all... A good paralegal is worth 10 doc reviewers, maybe more.. How is B town?

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robotclubmember
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:47 pm

tagging, just in case areyouinsane posts in here again.

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quakeroats
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby quakeroats » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:51 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
paratactical wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:So for the TLSers that wind up doing document review, keep in mind that the only thing worse than a doc reviewer is a doc reviewer masquerading as an actual lawyer.


Dude, as a paralegal in NYC biglaw, I made more money hourly and got more respect than the people I babysat doing contract doc review.


Oh I have absolutely no problem believing that at all... A good paralegal is worth 10 doc reviewers, maybe more.. How is B town?


Can either one of your elaborate? Most of the accounts I've read from coders assume that, but for the market or their TTT or some other for external force, things would be fine. From what you've mentioned it sounds like there's a bit more to it.

TNFSkier16
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby TNFSkier16 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:20 pm

reasonable_man wrote:
paratactical wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:So for the TLSers that wind up doing document review, keep in mind that the only thing worse than a doc reviewer is a doc reviewer masquerading as an actual lawyer.


Dude, as a paralegal in NYC biglaw, I made more money hourly and got more respect than the people I babysat doing contract doc review.


Oh I have absolutely no problem believing that at all... A good paralegal is worth 10 doc reviewers, maybe more.. How is B town?



If you had to choose between being a paralegal or doc reviewer after graduating Law School what would you choose?

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paratactical
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby paratactical » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:51 pm

TNFSkier16 wrote:If you had to choose between being a paralegal or doc reviewer after graduating Law School what would you choose?

Respectable law firms generally won't hire anyone with a JD as a paralegal, so both options are probably pretty shitty.

quakeroats wrote:Can either one of your elaborate? Most of the accounts I've read from coders assume that, but for the market or their TTT or some other for external force, things would be fine. From what you've mentioned it sounds like there's a bit more to it.

The accounts you've read come from delusional people is the only thing I can figure out. While some law schools may have misleading statistics that dupe ignorant people into attending a school they can't realistically get gainfully employment from, I believe the onus is on the people in the doc review. They picked the school; they got the grades; they fucked up OCI; etc. It's your duty to be well informed about employment prospects and to get yourself the job - no one else's.

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Verity
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Verity » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:01 pm

areyouinsane should be a writer for "The Office"

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quakeroats
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby quakeroats » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:24 pm

Verity wrote:areyouinsane should be a writer for "The Office"


Your comment betrays a jejune sensibility.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:51 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Verity wrote:areyouinsane should be a writer for "The Office"


Your comment betrays a jejune sensibility.


Ah crap, I came back to this thread hoping areyouinsane had posted something. Instead all I found was QO saying words again.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:56 pm

Just banned quakeroats for using the word jejune in an insult on an Internet message board.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Patriot1208 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:28 pm

Helmholtz wrote:Just banned quakeroats for using the word jejune in an insult on an Internet message board.

I actually think he was referencing another thread where three pages were dedicated to fighting a guy who used the word jejune.

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TTH
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby TTH » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:41 pm

These stories are funny and all, and I'm not taking anything away from areyouinsane, but um...there are dozens of these stories on the scam blogs.

071816
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby 071816 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:43 pm

Southern Maryland

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Lwoods
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Lwoods » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 pm

TTH wrote:These stories are funny and all, and I'm not taking anything away from areyouinsane, but um...there are dozens of these stories on the scam blogs.


It's not so much what he wrote, though; it's how he wrote it.

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fatduck
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby fatduck » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:17 pm

zero chance that was copypasta

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thesealocust
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:22 pm

MrKappus wrote:A: People who strike out at both OCI's, can't get anything else, but still want to work in law. This might be the single stupidest thread I've ever seen on TLS. Great work.


Just for the record, but my thread turned out to be the greatest thread ever, so sorry about your tiny pink failure to appreciate the greatness that is my thread starting ability.

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Paraflam
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Paraflam » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:24 pm

areyouinsane wrote:It only had one stall and a homeless dude named "Bones" pretty much lived in there and would holler "i'm in here motherfucker" every time you went to take a leak.

Gets me every time :lol:

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:43 pm

This thread was funny until I realized how scared it made me. :(




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