Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

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areyouinsane
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby areyouinsane » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:48 pm

Here's a pretty typical entry level shitlaw job in NJ:

--LinkRemoved--

I'm surprised they offer a salary at all: many of these smaller places are now strictly "eat what you kill," and essentially commission based sales jobs.

The reason for this is that in shitlaw like Ch 7 bankruptcy, residential closings, personal injury, divorce etc the ONLY thing that matters is bringing in clients. The "legal work" is copy n' paste slop that a $8 an hour secretary can slam together all day long. Forget a JD, you don't even need a GED to churn the shitlaw paperwork.

If you're interested in family law (and dual NJ/NY bar admitted) with here's a great opportunity:

--LinkRemoved--

Those first few months at $20 an hour would surely be tough, but everyone has to "pay their dues." But if you bust your ass and really shine, the $25 an hour rate is only 6 months away!

Note also that both of these jobs are part-time. There are very few full-time jobs available anymore, as the statistics indicate and these current advertisements illustrate.

Think long and hard about going to law school, kiddies, esp. the NYC area TTT's.

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A'nold
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby A'nold » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:28 pm

areyouinsane wrote:Here's a pretty typical entry level shitlaw job in NJ:

--LinkRemoved--

I'm surprised they offer a salary at all: many of these smaller places are now strictly "eat what you kill," and essentially commission based sales jobs.

The reason for this is that in shitlaw like Ch 7 bankruptcy, residential closings, personal injury, divorce etc the ONLY thing that matters is bringing in clients. The "legal work" is copy n' paste slop that a $8 an hour secretary can slam together all day long. Forget a JD, you don't even need a GED to churn the shitlaw paperwork.

If you're interested in family law (and dual NJ/NY bar admitted) with here's a great opportunity:

--LinkRemoved--

Those first few months at $20 an hour would surely be tough, but everyone has to "pay their dues." But if you bust your ass and really shine, the $25 an hour rate is only 6 months away!

Note also that both of these jobs are part-time. There are very few full-time jobs available anymore, as the statistics indicate and these current advertisements illustrate.

Think long and hard about going to law school, kiddies, esp. the NYC area TTT's.

I mean, this ad right here is what most on here would call the shittiest of shitlaw. I've heard from many attorneys that they got their full time jobs this way:

Washington Foreclosure Mediation - Creditor Rights Attorney (Seattle)
Date: 2011-06-20, 10:50AM PDT
Reply to: job-frdux-2451652618@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Silvestri Gidvani, P.C. is looking for a contract attorney to handle foreclosure mediation appearances. Our practice consists primarily of representation of creditors at foreclosure mediations, however BK/UD appearances may be requested as well. May lead to full-time employment in the future. New bar admittees encouraged to apply. Please send resume for consideration.


Now, you have experience in shitlaw and are out of the doc review dungeons and into the shitlaw nightmare. You apply to a better shitlaw job 5 years down the road. Now, you have a lot of experience and get a non shitlaw (depending on how one defines it) position.

I'm aware that most people would not put in this kind of effort and would just go get a non-attorney job. However, in your situation, you stayed in doc review for ten years. It seems like the worst decision all around at any time in your career was to stay in document review.

areyouinsane
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby areyouinsane » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:27 pm

However, in your situation, you stayed in doc review for ten years. It seems like the worst decision all around at any time in your career was to stay in document review.


Er, no. I didn't stay in doc review for 10 years. I worked at a shitlaw personal injury firm for 1.5 years (until my boss got disbarred) and then did insurance defense for 6 months. The PI job paid 45 K no bennies in NYC, and the insurance defense gig paid 48 K with a crappy Oxford HMO which I paid 50% of the premium.

There are no exit options for PI other than getting your own cases, which is very easy since there's only about six million firms in NYC/NJ running TV commercials 24/7 begging for these cases. And of the cases they get, 90%+ are soft tissue injury "whiplash" fender benders worth 5 K or less. AS I said, in this tough economy more and more folks are cruising around w/ state minimum 25 K policies, so even if your client brings his head to court in a box, if it's a 25 K policy that's all he's gonna get. Understand that in PI, you usually have either a "whopper" policy and no real injuries, or catastrphic injury but a crap (or no) policy whatsoever. If no policy at all, you have to go after the state fund for un/underinsured motorists, and they generally pay out crap and drag the case out for decades. It's a nightmare.

(I mention auto cases so much b/c that's what 95% of PI claims are. The other 4% are the trip n' slip cases, which have their own set of problems like "notice" and "transient conditions" and "sidewalk law" etc. Then you have the occasional "weird" case, like one we had where a guy was working under his car w/ his legs sticking out, and a window-unit air conditioner fell from 4 floors up and broke both his femurs. But those cases are once-in-a-lifetime rare.

Insurance defense is even worse. Time was, lots of small carriers would use "mom n' pop" firms to defend auto and premises liability cases, and pay reasonable fees (like 125 to 150 an hour) for that stuff.

But there aren't a lot of small carriers left- most of them have long since been "gobbled up" by the big boys like Allstate, Geico etc, or driven out of business by them. (In fact, my former insurance defense firm closed down about 6 months ago. They only had one carrier and they took everything in-house).

And the larger carriers are run by MBA/Corporate people with an eye on the bottom line. Hence, almost all general liability (e.g. auto & premises liability & property damage) stuff is in-house. Under the in-house model, there are one or two decent, experienced trial attorneys making decent $$ (like 80-90 K) and under them a huge squad of shitlawyers making 40 K or so to make the court appearances and churn the motions and other cut n' pasted shitpaper. I actually interviewed last year with Allstate's in-house division in NJ. When salary discussions came up I asked for 55-60 K and the lady looked at me like I asked for a private corporate jet. She said they pay 40 K starting take it or leave it. I left it.

Here's what caused this: in the early 2000s Allstate hired a consulting firm to see how they could save $$$. The consulting firm studied their business model and said "fight every single claim to the death, and do so w/ in-house shitlawyers. Mark every case "no pay" regardless of merit, and eventually people won't even handle cases where you're the defendant."

It was brilliant, and it worked. Just google "Allstate claims fight" or something like that and see how hard it is to get $$$ out of this carrier. Of course all the other companies caught on, so things are hundreds of times tougher in PI than they were in the late 90s and early 2000s. No more settling whiplash cases w/ a phone call for 10 K, that's for sure. Also google "NY threshold Law" and see how hard it is to even get these turds past summary judgment. Anyone with delusions of being the next "king of torts" a la John Edwards better do a little research first: it's not 1985 anymore.

Oh, I forgot to mention I was doing re-fi closings per diem last year for Quicken Loans. They paid $150 a closing (no gas or mileage) and cut you a check every 2 weeks as a 1099 ind contractor. It wasn't a bad gig - I did about 3 to 6 closings a week, mostly on Staten Island and northern NJ from March to Nov. of 2010. It wasn't much $$$, but it beat unemployment (barely).

But the title company for Quicken Loans hired a new manager late last year, and the first thing he did was shit-can having lawyers do the closings. Now they use notaries instead and pay them $40 a closing. So that gig came to an end around Dec of 2010. Since then I have applied to about 40,000 jobs and heard nothing from any of them.

I tried to "network" while doing the closings and passed out my own business cards to every single client I did a closing for. Of the 200 or so closings I did, exactly 0 of them ever called me for any other work.

It's rough out there and getting rougher.

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HarveyBirdman
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby HarveyBirdman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:34 pm

If I were you, I would've taken that Allstate job. It's a regular paycheck at least, and its not doc review.

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dood
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby dood » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:49 pm

how weird is it that i want to become a shit law contract attorney after reading your poasts? if money were not an issue, i would ditch my firm gig in a heartbeat. not sure how to articulate it...shitlaw just seems so genuine, and big law so fake...fake laughs, fake people, fake prestige, etc.

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drdolittle
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby drdolittle » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:00 am

HarveyBirdman wrote:If I were you, I would've taken that Allstate job. It's a regular paycheck at least, and its not doc review.

Somehow I have a feeling this wasn't your typical cush inhouse gig - just a step above slinging the shit on the street, but still above it. But yeah, seemingly better than nothing.

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Heartford
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Heartford » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:10 am

drdolittle wrote:
HarveyBirdman wrote:If I were you, I would've taken that Allstate job. It's a regular paycheck at least, and its not doc review.

Somehow I have a feeling this wasn't your typical cush inhouse gig - just a step above slinging the shit on the street, but still above it. But yeah, seemingly better than nothing.


I don't know where you come from, but around here you make WAY more than $40k/yr slinging shit on the street. Those escalades with the rims aren't free, homie.

Renzo
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Renzo » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:13 am

Heartford wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
HarveyBirdman wrote:If I were you, I would've taken that Allstate job. It's a regular paycheck at least, and its not doc review.

Somehow I have a feeling this wasn't your typical cush inhouse gig - just a step above slinging the shit on the street, but still above it. But yeah, seemingly better than nothing.


I don't know where you come from, but around here you make WAY more than $40k/yr slinging shit on the street. Those escalades with the rims aren't free, homie.


You're confused. That's slangin' shit in the street.

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Verity
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Verity » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:17 am

areyouinsane better fucking have internet in Turkey.

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A'nold
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby A'nold » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:15 am

I have prior PI experience as well, and I can tell you my experience was the exact opposite. Around here, insurance companies never use their own attorneys. They always hire shitlaw attorneys to do their dirty work until it gets to be a big case, then they hire biglaw (midlaw b/c secondary market?) firms to fight it.

Also, one firm I have experience with absolutely gobbled up the money like nothing you've ever seen. And no, this was not a big firm taking out billboard ads or doing t.v. commercials. In fact, I know quite a few PI attorneys that make a great living working at small PI firms. Either you are exaggerating or we live in different worlds, i.e. NYC area vs. the real world (about everywhere else, haha).

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sunynp
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby sunynp » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:29 am

A'nold wrote:I have prior PI experience as well, and I can tell you my experience was the exact opposite. Around here, insurance companies never use their own attorneys. They always hire shitlaw attorneys to do their dirty work until it gets to be a big case, then they hire biglaw (midlaw b/c secondary market?) firms to fight it.

Also, one firm I have experience with absolutely gobbled up the money like nothing you've ever seen. And no, this was not a big firm taking out billboard ads or doing t.v. commercials. In fact, I know quite a few PI attorneys that make a great living working at small PI firms. Either you are exaggerating or we live in different worlds, i.e. NYC area vs. the real world (about everywhere else, haha).


I think both experiences can be true. I don't think this is an either/or situation. NYC has a lot of tiny legal offices and people working like crazy to make nothing. I think other large cities might be similar.

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A'nold
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby A'nold » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:09 pm

sunynp wrote:
A'nold wrote:I have prior PI experience as well, and I can tell you my experience was the exact opposite. Around here, insurance companies never use their own attorneys. They always hire shitlaw attorneys to do their dirty work until it gets to be a big case, then they hire biglaw (midlaw b/c secondary market?) firms to fight it.

Also, one firm I have experience with absolutely gobbled up the money like nothing you've ever seen. And no, this was not a big firm taking out billboard ads or doing t.v. commercials. In fact, I know quite a few PI attorneys that make a great living working at small PI firms. Either you are exaggerating or we live in different worlds, i.e. NYC area vs. the real world (about everywhere else, haha).


I think both experiences can be true. I don't think this is an either/or situation. NYC has a lot of tiny legal offices and people working like crazy to make nothing. I think other large cities might be similar.

I mean, yeah, maybe like Chicago, D.C., L.A., and other similar gigantic cities. Is it THAT important to you guys to live in one of these cities? I'd move to Alabama or North Dakota to make a decent living. OP can attest to NYC and his experiences till the cows come home. I've now met a bazillion lawyers in the PNW and everything I've said holds true around here. Are there those that will not find legal jobs? Yes. But the general rule that these students had lower grades, went to lower ranked or out of state lower ranked schools, or have personality or ambition issues applies here. Of course there are exceptions and these past few years have been absolutely dreadful, but if you are willing and intelligent enough to work for 40-50k a year doing unglamorous legal work, you will most likely get the chance w/in a few years, let alone 10.

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Verity
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Verity » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:16 pm

From: --LinkRemoved--

Civil Litigation Attorney (NNJ)
Date: 2011-07-17, 1:14PM EDT
Reply to: job-rbzdm-2498848151@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Boutique Criminal Litigation Firm seeking associate or "situation" to create a Civil Litigation Practice.

Location: NNJ
Compensation: 75K
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.



PostingID: 2498848151



So, you can be either a lawyer or

Image


?

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PitchO20
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby PitchO20 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:16 am

dood wrote:how weird is it that i want to become a shit law contract attorney after reading your poasts? if money were not an issue, i would ditch my firm gig in a heartbeat. not sure how to articulate it...shitlaw just seems so genuine, and big law so fake...fake laughs, fake people, fake prestige, etc.


Yep. I'm extremely lucky to be graduating with no debt. Without the need to pay off loans, I don't personally feel any pull towards Biglaw. I'd much rather work more personally with a client over wills & trusts, contracts, whatever.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:27 pm

A'nold wrote:
sunynp wrote:
A'nold wrote:I have prior PI experience as well, and I can tell you my experience was the exact opposite. Around here, insurance companies never use their own attorneys. They always hire shitlaw attorneys to do their dirty work until it gets to be a big case, then they hire biglaw (midlaw b/c secondary market?) firms to fight it.

Also, one firm I have experience with absolutely gobbled up the money like nothing you've ever seen. And no, this was not a big firm taking out billboard ads or doing t.v. commercials. In fact, I know quite a few PI attorneys that make a great living working at small PI firms. Either you are exaggerating or we live in different worlds, i.e. NYC area vs. the real world (about everywhere else, haha).


I think both experiences can be true. I don't think this is an either/or situation. NYC has a lot of tiny legal offices and people working like crazy to make nothing. I think other large cities might be similar.

I mean, yeah, maybe like Chicago, D.C., L.A., and other similar gigantic cities. Is it THAT important to you guys to live in one of these cities? I'd move to Alabama or North Dakota to make a decent living. OP can attest to NYC and his experiences till the cows come home. I've now met a bazillion lawyers in the PNW and everything I've said holds true around here. Are there those that will not find legal jobs? Yes. But the general rule that these students had lower grades, went to lower ranked or out of state lower ranked schools, or have personality or ambition issues applies here. Of course there are exceptions and these past few years have been absolutely dreadful, but if you are willing and intelligent enough to work for 40-50k a year doing unglamorous legal work, you will most likely get the chance w/in a few years, let alone 10.


A'nold the voice of reason, as usual. areyouinsane is a funny guy and I've enjoyed this thread, but if he's applied to 40,000 jobs and doesn't have anything by now, something ain't right. Even now, it's fairly easy to find a dead end desk job making $20/hour if you have a degree. The unemployment rate for people holding bachelor's degrees is well under 5%. Something about him does not add up.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:44 pm

Mick Haller wrote:
A'nold the voice of reason, as usual. areyouinsane is a funny guy and I've enjoyed this thread, but if he's applied to 40,000 jobs and doesn't have anything by now, something ain't right. Even now, it's fairly easy to find a dead end desk job making $20/hour if you have a degree. The unemployment rate for people holding bachelor's degrees is well under 5%. Something about him does not add up.


Perhaps that something that's not right is the vast over-supply of lawyers. in 2010 only 2 in 3 graduating JDs got a job that actually required the JD, many of which were temp positions. keep in mind that temp positions accounted for 27% of the JD class of 2010, and temp agency analysts predict a 25% cumulative increase in temp hiring over the next two years. in 2011 49,000 new graduates are competing for 30,000 jobs. the 2011 application cycle shows 66,876 students are enrolled to start this fall (though some tbd amount will drop out). due to lack of organic growth in the legal sector, BLS estimates approx. 30,000 new jobs each year going forward. this unsavory forecast is supported by the median starting salary for law school graduates dipping 20% in 2010 compared to 2009 (an already down year). maybe that's what's wrong.

maybe it brings you some level of comfort to insist that it couldn't possibly be a broken system. that it's just some individual person's flaws. that it won't apply to you. that it could never happen to you. maybe that brings you comfort. perhaps it's easy to insulate yourself from this possibility because you've just never been exposed to it before. you never watched someone get laid off through no fault of their own because of a bad economy. you never had a friend whose offer as an SA was rescinded in the biggest downturn of our lives and could never quite recover.

maybe it's easy for you to cast stones, but it sure ain't right of you. understand that only half of the 2010 JD class found a full-time permanent position within 9 months of graduating. the facts are not on your side. and don't say it's OP's fault because he went to a TTT. he went to school a decade ago when there was no TLS. if i never saw TLS and the only info i had available was the TTT's rubbish lies of 160K salary and 98% employment, i would have gone to a local TTT in a heartbeat. it's only because in this day and age that so much info is being shared that i didn't go that path.

and don't even bother replying unless you come armed with facts. deflecting the economic realities of supply and demand doesn't mean they aren't real, it just means you are delusional.

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Mick Haller
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:52 pm

Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:10 pm

Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.


oh yeah, no one's been applying to those jobs. they are in fact very easy to get you are 100% correct. and 20 bucks an hour is plenty of money to service your debt and put food on your table in NYC. that's what i want to do after three grueling years of law school: work in an unrelated field for slave wages.

you one silly momo son.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:41 pm

robotclubmember wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.


20 bucks an hour [. . .] slave wages.




:roll:

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A'nold
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby A'nold » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:45 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
robotclubmember wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.


20 bucks an hour [. . .] slave wages.




:roll:

Man tton, you stole my post. I was seriously just going to post a rolling eyes smiley and leave it at that, haha.

Thanks Mick for the compliment. :)

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A'nold
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby A'nold » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:55 pm

Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.

I do find it strange how many intelligent people that pride themselves on reason and logic get duped/freaked out/depressed by scam bloggers. Law students are rightfully anxious and like to set the bar very low as to not be overconfident and drive forward aggressively. Fear drives many law students to do better/try harder and disappointment such as going to law school for 3 years to go back to being a legal secretary puts a depressing cloud over current law students' heads (especially ITE). It's completely understandable for these students to temporarily lose sight of reason when everything is so uncertain and the only info many of them get is either in the classroom or right here on TLS.

Prelaws, on the other hand, like to try to impress people with their "statistics" and their precious anecdotes. The smartest future law student is a dumb ass when it comes to law school and the legal world. The funny thing is that they are 100% certain we are wrong when we say these things. Then, after 1L year, their eyes open up and they are like, "damn."

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robotclubmember
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby robotclubmember » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:30 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
robotclubmember wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.


20 bucks an hour [. . .] slave wages.




:roll:


In NYC with triple digits of debt, $20-hr is slave wages. Where are you from? I'm guessing not a big city. Obviously, you are not a golfer.

A'nold wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.

I do find it strange how many intelligent people that pride themselves on reason and logic get duped/freaked out/depressed by scam bloggers. Law students are rightfully anxious and like to set the bar very low as to not be overconfident and drive forward aggressively. Fear drives many law students to do better/try harder and disappointment such as going to law school for 3 years to go back to being a legal secretary puts a depressing cloud over current law students' heads (especially ITE). It's completely understandable for these students to temporarily lose sight of reason when everything is so uncertain and the only info many of them get is either in the classroom or right here on TLS.

Prelaws, on the other hand, like to try to impress people with their "statistics" and their precious anecdotes.


these are just your opinions. i state facts. you can't offer up a bunch of wishy washy generalizations in the hopes that it will substitute for fact. i'm not just some prelaw, i'm a cpa who's spent a few years in consulting and audit. analysis was my livelihood. if you don't like my analysis of the facts, then don't blame me. blame the facts. at what point have i lost sight of reason? believe it or not, my analytical background might better equip me to comment on developments in the job market for lawyers than current law students or even current lawyers, just in the same way an economist would be better able to speak to fast food hiring trends than a line cook at mcdonald's.

The smartest future law student is a dumb ass when it comes to law school and the legal world. The funny thing is that they are 100% certain we are wrong when we say these things. Then, after 1L year, their eyes open up and they are like, "damn."


if you're suggesting my pessimism is unwarranted and that i will be a poor future law student, even this stupid generalization isn't supported by any facts. studies show that pessimistic lawyers are enjoy more success than those who do not share that pessimism.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... udy_finds/

you guys rag on OP for being a failure, and all i've done is call you out on a myopic and self-comforting analysis that it's his fault. it's not his fault. the system is seriously hurting and it's largely a numbers game. and we are seeing the supply demand curve shift down resulting in a lower EQ point (as i've noted, prices for new hires has nosedived 20% in the last year alone). i'm not making the stuff up, every fact i've given came from wsj, aba, nyt or bloomsberg. you just espouse bullshit opinions that don't even really make sense. there is a difference in the level of discourse we are operating on that has nothing to do with who is further along in their legal education. i don't care how much case law you've outlined, this is an economic problem, and you sir simply aren't equipped to intelligently discuss the economy.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:12 pm

Verity wrote:From: --LinkRemoved--

Civil Litigation Attorney (NNJ)
Date: 2011-07-17, 1:14PM EDT
Reply to: job-rbzdm-2498848151@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Boutique Criminal Litigation Firm seeking associate or "situation" to create a Civil Litigation Practice.

Location: NNJ
Compensation: 75K
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.



PostingID: 2498848151



So, you can be either a lawyer or

Image


?


Heh.

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Verity
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Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Verity » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:18 pm

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:
Verity wrote:From: --LinkRemoved--

Civil Litigation Attorney (NNJ)
Date: 2011-07-17, 1:14PM EDT
Reply to: job-rbzdm-2498848151@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
Boutique Criminal Litigation Firm seeking associate or "situation" to create a Civil Litigation Practice.

Location: NNJ
Compensation: 75K
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PostingID: 2498848151



So, you can be either a lawyer or

Image


?


Heh.


Damn. He's all set after that dumb COA thing.

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Verity
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: Where do contract / temp attorneys come from?

Postby Verity » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:28 pm

A'nold wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:Obviously I was not limiting my comment to the legal field. Since there are only ~30,000 legal openings per year, I highly doubt "areyouinsane" has been limiting his job search to the legal field either.

I do find it strange how many intelligent people that pride themselves on reason and logic get duped/freaked out/depressed by scam bloggers. Law students are rightfully anxious and like to set the bar very low as to not be overconfident and drive forward aggressively. Fear drives many law students to do better/try harder and disappointment such as going to law school for 3 years to go back to being a legal secretary puts a depressing cloud over current law students' heads (especially ITE). It's completely understandable for these students to temporarily lose sight of reason when everything is so uncertain and the only info many of them get is either in the classroom or right here on TLS.

Prelaws, on the other hand, like to try to impress people with their "statistics" and their precious anecdotes. The smartest future law student is a dumb ass when it comes to law school and the legal world. The funny thing is that they are 100% certain we are wrong when we say these things. Then, after 1L year, their eyes open up and they are like, "damn."


Are you going to a TTT? Have you gone through OCI? Have you been in areyouinsane's shoes? Is there any factual basis to your claims you wish to present?

Look, 0Ls have not been through the process. But let's be fair: there's positive feedback, and negative feedback, and 0Ls hear lots of both. The positive seems to largely come from kids who did well at decent-to-great schools. The negative comes primarily from everyone else, like areyouinsane. Then there are the facts, which indicate oversupply, skyrocketing tuition, and a general decline in the legal industry. There have been plenty of developments in the legal world that have either cheapened or eliminated what used to be lucrative work for lawyers.

I think a sober look at the scenario does tell us that the path to success is way more narrow than in the past, and that a few, or even one misstep can ruin your career. There will be lucrative legal work for some time, probably as long as our country exists; but industries go through adjustment periods, and I think any economist would say that's true for the legal world at this time.
Last edited by Verity on Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:18 am, edited 3 times in total.




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