CLS 3.2-3.3 Potential Bid List Forum

[Anonymous User]

Tagging this for the inevitable once all my grades are in.

Ditto. 3.2-3.3 here.

[Anonymous User]

just so we have a better idea of what's what this year--any guesses as to what median actually is?

also OP: i'm the one who asked whether you got anything on your bidlist. that's great to hear! thanks for giving us hope!

[Anonymous User]

Just curious OP did you end up working at one of the firms on your bidlist?

OP here. I did end up working at one of these firms, sitting at my desk right now in fact. Got offers from five of the firms on the list.

That's awesome. Any tips for someone in this position, based on your experience?

I actually realized one of my offers came from mass mailing, so it was actually four of those firms and one mass mailing firm, which leads me to my first point....mass mail. In late July, I sent my resume, cover letter, and transcript to every NLJ 250 firm with a NYC office, most not coming to EIP and some that did come that I wasn't interviewing with. (I knew I wanted NYC but if you have a home market, do that in addition to NYC). I got two callbacks from mass mailing.

I didn't do this, but I would recommend it....go to the hospitality suites of every firm you bid on that you didn't get an interview with and tell them you bid on them and that due to the vagaries of the bidding system you didn't get an interview but that you're very interested in the firm and is there any way they could squeeze you in? Also, go to the hospitality suites of firms you did interview with and talk to the people there for awhile. It cements your interest. Be ready to ask questions.

I ultimately did not bid on any V10 firms. I wanted to use every interview I had on firms where I was not a long-shot candidate. Sometimes you can add interviews with V10 firms during add-drop because they don't get bid on as much, which reminds me.....be online at exactly the minute add drop starts and add as many interviews as possible. I added five this way.

Don't wory if you have a couple bad interviews. It is bound to happen if you have 20+ interviews. Don't compare callbacks with people. It is feast or famine for the most part. It is better to just focus on your own stuff than to compare with your friends. Comparing will drive you crazy.

Be friendly and positive in the interview (duh) but I'll say it just in case. I am not a good interviewer but I was friendly and I guess I was good enough. Have some questions ready for each firm. You can also ask the interviewer about his/her own career.

For some reason my computer is scrolling up on this dialog box every time I type a letter, so I will come back and write more later. I am probably a little bit of an outlier on the high side but median at CLS does have a good shot at a job.

Oh, and to the person who wants DC, my advice is to get an offer with an NYC firm that has a summer program in DC and then once you’ve accepted the offer, inquire about splitting the summer….it may not work but I know multiple people who did this successfully, and they did not have the amazing grades it usually takes to get DC.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks OP and congratulations. Do you have any comments on the bidlist on page 5? Any good ones missing? Any firms need to go? thanks

[Anonymous User]

sorry bro but Wilmer DC is pretty much impossible unless you are Kent/Law Review.....its one of the toughest DC firms to get for most law review folks

you need serious DC connections to even stand a chance with just a B+

LOL no.

Hey I'm on Law Review at CLS and I can't tell you how many LR folks with good grades who struck of the top DC firms the last couple of years. And by top DC firms I'm only talking about W&C, Covington, and Wilmer. Top 10-15% grades + strong DC ties should give you a shot.

Here's a little trivia to chew on. CLS only sent one person to Wilmer DC last year and he's going to be clerking for Kozinski this year. In 2010, CLS only had one person at Wilmer DC once again and he's clerking for Kavanaugh this year and will be clerking for Scalia next year.

Unless you have serious DC/fed gov connections, you need to be close to Kent and on Law Review to get the tippy top DC firms (i.e W&C, Wilmer, & Covington). The only way to get W&C/Covington/Wilmer without being Kent/LR is to have worked on the Hill for many years for example and have serious reasons for wanting to be in DC.

Just having good grades (i.e. Stone/LR) is NOT enough.

You're overstating your case. Connections might be important, but at least for Wilmer I don't think either feeder-clerkship grades nor law review are necessary.

Sure you can get an offer from the DC elite without being Kent/LR but its much harder and you need serious DC connections otherwise.

My post was directed more at folks who don't have impressive DC connections. To get W&C/Cov/WH without impressive DC connections requires near feeder-clerkship grades. That is not overstating. That is actually knowing folks on LR who didn't get offers from the DC elite and had to settle on satellite DC offices like Cleary and Paul Weiss.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks OP and congratulations. Do you have any comments on the bidlist on page 5? Any good ones missing? Any firms need to go? thanks

It looks good to me for the most part. I would get rid of Skadden and maybe DPW. I was able to add an interview with DPW last year. Cleary is a big reach for you, but it does have a big class....that is the hard part: figuring out how to balance class sizes versus selectivity of the firm because the more selective firms tend to be the ones with bigger classes.

Bid SRZ high. They love CLS kids and you want to make sure to get an interview from them. Does Kaye have a big summer class? Is that the order of your bids or just a list of firms?

In terms of missing firms, what about Ropes, Milbank, MoFo, Willkie, and Cahill? You could drop Morgan Lewis, K&L, H&K, and K&S. I'm pretty sure those have smallish summer classes. Morgan Lewis cut its whole summer program one year (that's not a reason to not bid on it but it seems like there are better options). I added an interview with K&S last year.

[Anonymous User]

Hey I'm on Law Review at CLS and I can't tell you how many LR folks with good grades who struck of the top DC firms the last couple of years. And by top DC firms I'm only talking about W&C, Covington, and Wilmer. Top 10-15% grades + strong DC ties should give you a shot.

Here's a little trivia to chew on. CLS only sent one person to Wilmer DC last year and he's going to be clerking for Kozinski this year. In 2010, CLS only had one person at Wilmer DC once again and he's clerking for Kavanaugh this year and will be clerking for Scalia next year.

Unless you have serious DC/fed gov connections, you need to be close to Kent and on Law Review to get the tippy top DC firms (i.e W&C, Wilmer, & Covington). The only way to get W&C/Covington/Wilmer without being Kent/LR is to have worked on the Hill for many years for example and have serious reasons for wanting to be in DC.

Just having good grades (i.e. Stone/LR) is NOT enough.

You're overstating your case. Connections might be important, but at least for Wilmer I don't think either feeder-clerkship grades nor law review are necessary.

Sure you can get an offer from the DC elite without being Kent/LR but its much harder and you need serious DC connections otherwise.

My post was directed more at folks who don't have impressive DC connections. To get W&C/Cov/WH without impressive DC connections requires near feeder-clerkship grades. That is not overstating. That is actually knowing folks on LR who didn't get offers from the DC elite and had to settle on satellite DC offices like Cleary and Paul Weiss.

I don't know what it's like at CLS. For Wilmer, at my T7-14, their callback median last year was (just) outside the top 10%.

I'll buy that Cov and W&C require near-feeder grades though.

[Anonymous User]

Hey I'm on Law Review at CLS and I can't tell you how many LR folks with good grades who struck of the top DC firms the last couple of years. And by top DC firms I'm only talking about W&C, Covington, and Wilmer. Top 10-15% grades + strong DC ties should give you a shot.

Here's a little trivia to chew on. CLS only sent one person to Wilmer DC last year and he's going to be clerking for Kozinski this year. In 2010, CLS only had one person at Wilmer DC once again and he's clerking for Kavanaugh this year and will be clerking for Scalia next year.

Unless you have serious DC/fed gov connections, you need to be close to Kent and on Law Review to get the tippy top DC firms (i.e W&C, Wilmer, & Covington). The only way to get W&C/Covington/Wilmer without being Kent/LR is to have worked on the Hill for many years for example and have serious reasons for wanting to be in DC.

Just having good grades (i.e. Stone/LR) is NOT enough.

You're overstating your case. Connections might be important, but at least for Wilmer I don't think either feeder-clerkship grades nor law review are necessary.

Sure you can get an offer from the DC elite without being Kent/LR but its much harder and you need serious DC connections otherwise.

My post was directed more at folks who don't have impressive DC connections. To get W&C/Cov/WH without impressive DC connections requires near feeder-clerkship grades. That is not overstating. That is actually knowing folks on LR who didn't get offers from the DC elite and had to settle on satellite DC offices like Cleary and Paul Weiss.

I don't know what it's like at CLS. For Wilmer, at my T7-14, their callback median last year was (just) outside the top 10%.

I'll buy that Cov and W&C require near-feeder grades though.

You have to remember that getting a callback and offer are two completely different things and depending on your schools location in relation to the firm that can vary alot in terms of callback rates. For example if you go to a school near DC, its likely that the callback median is going to be lower cause the firm doesn't have to pay the cost of getting you out there. I know that Davis Polk NY gives callbacks to almost everyone who interviews with them at CLS but then their offer ratio is extremely low.

At CLS Cov and Wilmer DC are the same when it comes to getting offers. I really don't know what the callback median is but I'm sure people just outside the top 10% can get callbacks. I was talking in terms of offers. At Cov/Wilmer, the only folks I know who got offers either had mediocre grades but crazy impressive DC based work experience OR they had top 5% grades.

At CLS, your not getting an offer from Cov/Wilmer DC w/o one or the other. W&C is the true beast which only hires 1 student at CLS each year and that student is usually the #1 student in the class.

[Anonymous User]

Any tips/experience on NorCal/SoCal?

[Anonymous User]

I think I posted the original DC question...last year. Hilarious that people are still fighting about it. Thanks for the advice, I guess. Didn't end up bidding any DC, although I was able to score several callbacks there by picking up screeners in the morning. That would be my advice to 2Ls this year with a similar dilemma.

[Anonymous User]

Is there a sort of pendulum effect from year to year, where the firms that appear to have been easy to get an interview with last year get overbid and vice versa?

[piccolittle]

Is there a sort of pendulum effect from year to year, where the firms that appear to have been easy to get an interview with last year get overbid and vice versa?

Ooh good question. Bumping for this

[Anonymous User]

ok final GPA is 3.3 (which i'm guessing is median or not meaningfully far away enough from median to make a difference)

thoughts on bidlist? I'm looking for NYC firms and am interested in lit. No out of the ordinary WE. Would appreciate any help.

1. Proskauer Rose
2. Milbank
3. Jones Day
4.Chadbourne and Park
5. Schulte, Roth, and Zabel
6. Kaye Scholer
7. clifford chance
8 Cadwalader Wickersham and Taft
9. Dechert
10. Fried Frank Harris Schriver and Jacobson
11. Linklaters
12. Stroock, Stroock, and Lavan
13.Shearman and Sterling
14. Ropes and Gray
15. hogan lovells
16. Bingham McClutchen
17. Gibson Dunn
18.White and Case
19. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman
20. Arnold and Porter
21. Sheppard Mullen
22. Katten Muchin Rosenman
23. Hughes Hubbard
24. Cahill
25. dla piper
26. Kirkland and Ellis
27. Paul Weiss
28. Latham and Watkins
29. Willkie Farr and Gallagher
30. Allen and Ovary

[azntwice]

Re: pendulum effect, yes, there definitely is. The year before me, SRZ took way too many CLS people, and last year they took very very few. Additionally, Proskauer was super overbid last year, as was Kramer Levin (I had it at #9 on my list and didn't get an interview), probably because they were seen as popular options from the year before, so definitely be careful of that. The best advice I can give you is to do a lot of research on any firm you're interested in, know what kind of work they are good at (legal500 is better for this than chambers rankings, imo), what kinds of programs are special to them, and bid on the firms that align with YOUR interests. I can't overstate this. You must give the firm a reason to hire you, so make sure you express an interest in what that firm does, and it would be best if you had prior experience in it too.

ok final GPA is 3.3 (which i'm guessing is median or not meaningfully far away enough from median to make a difference)

thoughts on bidlist? I'm looking for NYC firms and am interested in lit. No out of the ordinary WE. Would appreciate any help.

1. Proskauer Rose
2. Milbank
3. Jones Day
4.Chadbourne and Park
5. Schulte, Roth, and Zabel
6. Kaye Scholer
7. Clifford Chance
8 Cadwalader Wickersham and Taft
9. Dechert
10. Fried Frank Harris Schriver and Jacobson
11. Linklaters
12. Stroock, Stroock, and Lavan
13.Shearman and Sterling
14. Ropes and Gray
15. Hogan Lovells
16. Bingham McClutchen
17. Gibson Dunn
18.White and Case
19. Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman
20. Arnold and Porter
21. Sheppard Mullen
22. Katten Muchin Rosenman
23. Hughes Hubbard
24. Cahill
25. DLA Piper
26. Kirkland and Ellis
27. Paul Weiss
28. Latham and Watkins
29. Willkie Farr and Gallagher
30. Allen and Ovary

You prob won't get an interview at White and Case or Kirkland that far down the list, and definitely not with Paul Weiss or Latham/Willkie Farr. If you really want them bump them up; I don't think those firms are super grade sensitive.

[Anonymous User]

You prob won't get an interview at White and Case or Kirkland that far down the list, and definitely not with Paul Weiss or Latham/Willkie Farr. If you really want them bump them up; I don't think those firms are super grade sensitive.

Thanks! Are there any firms you see that are so outrageously outliers that I should just not bid on them?

[piccolittle]

30. Allen and Ovary

Overy

Sorry, pet peeve

[Anonymous User]

Re: pendulum effect, yes, there definitely is. The year before me, SRZ took way too many CLS people, and last year they took very very few. Additionally, Proskauer was super overbid last year, as was Kramer Levin (I had it at #9 on my list and didn't get an interview), probably because they were seen as popular options from the year before, so definitely be careful of that. The best advice I can give you is to do a lot of research on any firm you're interested in, know what kind of work they are good at (legal500 is better for this than chambers rankings, imo), what kinds of programs are special to them, and bid on the firms that align with YOUR interests. I can't overstate this. You must give the firm a reason to hire you, so make sure you express an interest in what that firm does, and it would be best if you had prior experience in it too.

what year are you? SRZ took tons of people in the class of 2013 even though 14 people went there from the class of 2012

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what the GPA equivalents are for grades at CLS (e.g. B+ = 3.3, A- = 3.67 or 3.7)? I have a feeling I'm 0.01 below Stone but it would be nice if I were wrong.

[overandout]

Does anyone know what the GPA equivalents are for grades at CLS (e.g. B+ = 3.3, A- = 3.67 or 3.7)? I have a feeling I'm 0.01 below Stone but it would be nice if I were wrong.

A+ = 4.33
A = 4
A- = 3.67
B+ = 3.33
B = 3
B- = 2.67
C = 2

[azntwice]

Re: pendulum effect, yes, there definitely is. The year before me, SRZ took way too many CLS people, and last year they took very very few. Additionally, Proskauer was super overbid last year, as was Kramer Levin (I had it at #9 on my list and didn't get an interview), probably because they were seen as popular options from the year before, so definitely be careful of that. The best advice I can give you is to do a lot of research on any firm you're interested in, know what kind of work they are good at (legal500 is better for this than chambers rankings, imo), what kinds of programs are special to them, and bid on the firms that align with YOUR interests. I can't overstate this. You must give the firm a reason to hire you, so make sure you express an interest in what that firm does, and it would be best if you had prior experience in it too.

what year are you? SRZ took tons of people in the class of 2013 even though 14 people went there from the class of 2012

I am C/O 2013. I'm not sure how many people SRZ took this year, but I heard they were being much pickier about cbs.

[azntwice]

You prob won't get an interview at White and Case or Kirkland that far down the list, and definitely not with Paul Weiss or Latham/Willkie Farr. If you really want them bump them up; I don't think those firms are super grade sensitive.

Thanks! Are there any firms you see that are so outrageously outliers that I should just not bid on them?

I think you've got a shot at all the firms you have on your list. I had a GPA below yours and got offers at multiple firms on your list. To be safe, I might move Katten up, and I might drop A&P (I think they're pickier about grades). Ropes and Paul Weiss might be a little bit pickier about grades, but could still be worth having on your list.

[kwais]

bid on the firms that align with YOUR interests. I can't overstate this. You must give the firm a reason to hire you, so make sure you express an interest in what that firm does, and it would be best if you had prior experience in it too.

how do you balance this with an attempt to get as many interviews as possible by bidding based on the stats?

[upup away!]

Just curious OP did you end up working at one of the firms on your bidlist?

OP here. I did end up working at one of these firms, sitting at my desk right now in fact. Got offers from five of the firms on the list.

Congrats!

[azntwice]

bid on the firms that align with YOUR interests. I can't overstate this. You must give the firm a reason to hire you, so make sure you express an interest in what that firm does, and it would be best if you had prior experience in it too.

how do you balance this with an attempt to get as many interviews as possible by bidding based on the stats?

easy -- pick some firms that align with your interests, and some firms that don't align with your interests but seem to fit with your stats, and then make up some reason why you love that firm based on some special program that that firm offers. for example, if bidding a firm that does a lot of financial work because they seem to take candidates with your stats, mention how you follow the markets and that you saw that this firm did X and Y deals and that you're interested in working on things like that, even if you actually have little/no interest.

[timbs4339]

bid on the firms that align with YOUR interests. I can't overstate this. You must give the firm a reason to hire you, so make sure you express an interest in what that firm does, and it would be best if you had prior experience in it too.

how do you balance this with an attempt to get as many interviews as possible by bidding based on the stats?

What are your interests? If they are general corporate/litigation practices, most of these firms are pretty fungible.