UVa OGI 2011 thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Once the accept/decline period is over and the alternate and lottery process starts do alternates change to preselects in real time or do you have to wait until the period is over?

[5ky]

So basically if you get a lottery interview and the firm typically has a GPA average around your GPA it is possible that you fell through the cracks that they didn't actively not want you and therefore should treat it as a good chance at a callback?

I keep harping on this, but it's important. As an example, a firm like Shearman has 13 preselects, that's it. Undoubtedly they were pleased with many more than that, so don't take a "not invited" as equivalent to an outright dismissal of your resume. They cannot give preselects to all those might hire.

[Anonymous User]

Do special requests count against the twenty interview limit?

[Julio_El_Chavo]

Good luck, 2Ls!

The best piece of advice I can give you (reiterating what others have said): RELAX. If you are uptight/nervous/anxious during interviews, you will receive fewer CBs and offers than you are capable of snagging. I know this from personal experience.

[Anonymous User]

Spent all day suit shopping and mass mailing. Can anyone recommend a good brand of spoon with which I could gouge out my eyes?

[bgdddymtty]

Do special requests count against the twenty interview limit?

No.

I was looking for an official source on this in my email (it may be in the handbook, but I'm on my phone), and I ran across an email from one of my PA's. He made the following points, among others. These are of course anecdotal, but do keep them in mind:
1. Some of his friends, by being aggressive in schmoozing/specially requesting, increased their number of interviews by ten or more.

2. He personally received an offer from a lottery interview.

[Anonymous User]

a question for 3Ls- obviously being preselected is a great sign, but i was preselected by some firms that i am way below grade range (i'm a bit above median) that typically receive quite a lot of bids that are only hosting one room of interviews (at least to my knowledge)... i know i'm not totally out of the woods re: my grades, but is a bit of optimism regarding my chances at a callback with these firms merited, or am i still totally screwed? i guess i'm looking for anecdotal evidence to back up the OCS mantra that being preselected means you've passed the grade/resume/WE baseline and personality becomes the major factor.

[Anonymous User]

a question for 3Ls- obviously being preselected is a great sign, but i was preselected by some firms that i am way below grade range (i'm a bit above median) that typically receive quite a lot of bids that are only hosting one room of interviews (at least to my knowledge)... i know i'm not totally out of the woods re: my grades, but is a bit of optimism regarding my chances at a callback with these firms merited, or am i still totally screwed? i guess i'm looking for anecdotal evidence to back up the OCS mantra that being preselected means you've passed the grade/resume/WE baseline and personality becomes the major factor.

What market?

[Anonymous User]

a question for 3Ls- obviously being preselected is a great sign, but i was preselected by some firms that i am way below grade range (i'm a bit above median) that typically receive quite a lot of bids that are only hosting one room of interviews (at least to my knowledge)... i know i'm not totally out of the woods re: my grades, but is a bit of optimism regarding my chances at a callback with these firms merited, or am i still totally screwed? i guess i'm looking for anecdotal evidence to back up the OCS mantra that being preselected means you've passed the grade/resume/WE baseline and personality becomes the major factor.

What market?

NYC

[showNprove]

a question for 3Ls- obviously being preselected is a great sign, but i was preselected by some firms that i am way below grade range (i'm a bit above median) that typically receive quite a lot of bids that are only hosting one room of interviews (at least to my knowledge)... i know i'm not totally out of the woods re: my grades, but is a bit of optimism regarding my chances at a callback with these firms merited, or am i still totally screwed? i guess i'm looking for anecdotal evidence to back up the OCS mantra that being preselected means you've passed the grade/resume/WE baseline and personality becomes the major factor.

Be confident. They picked you for a reason. If you impress at the interview, you have a good chance.

[Anonymous User]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

[Anonymous User]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

I'm a guy here with top 1/4 grades and only 4 preselects so far. My results were exasperated by the fact that I did not bid my home market because I already have an offer to come back there. If I had bid secondary markets I'd easily be into double digits in preselects. I do know several of my friends who are between 3.4-3.45 who only got between 2-5 preselects, though a ton of alternates. With the way the system was set up this year it is far to early to really tell how bad it was going to be. If half of my alternates turn into preselects and i get 3-4 lotteries (all firms that i was in the target gpa for in my top 10) i will have 12-13 interviews, adding in special request and I should be just fine.

Early signs aren't fantastic, but it is not the end of the world scenario that others and myself made it seem earlier in the week.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the response. I guess it's just unsettling that 3.4s and 3.5s are nervous. How are median people doing? Also does anyone know what the average (or median, I guess) number of preselects was last year?

[crossingforHYS]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

why is the above anon?

[$$$$$$]

Thanks for the response. I guess it's just unsettling that 3.4s and 3.5s are nervous. How are median people doing? Also does anyone know what the average (or median, I guess) number of preselects was last year?

worrying about this stuff will get you no where. Just concentrate on the stuff you can control now and kill it. Honestly it doesnt matter how many preselects you get, if you are top 1/4 and personable you WILL get a firm job if you want one.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the response. I guess it's just unsettling that 3.4s and 3.5s are nervous. How are median people doing? Also does anyone know what the average (or median, I guess) number of preselects was last year?

No idea about averages.

But I do know a below median friend who bid all NYC and was completely shut out from preselects or alternates.

It seems that median was okay as long as you bid secondary markets.

[joeshmo39]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

It is not that bad from where I sit. Here is what you have to remember, firms pick people at the top of the class because they are in the driver's seat. It's a buyers market. I know people sitting on 35 to 45 preselects right now and have to throw them back in. As they do, the bids trickle down to the people who weren't quite as competitive. Because the 20 interview limit is lower than the 30 last year, this effect should be more pronounced. I'm assuming the top people are getting the same number of preselects but they have to let go of an additional ten this year, then alternates happen, the lottery runs, people start pounding the pavement on special requests, things come together, the crowds cheer. I'm not guaranteeing that result, or saying it will certainly work out, but I think what I just wrote is a plausible story. I encourage everyone to sharpen their pitchforks and soak their torches in gasoline ahead of time, you can never be too prepared, but it's best to wait until all the chips are on the table before actually storming the keep.

To add: I think people in the 3.4/3.5 range will benefit the most in the coming weeks. They will be first to pick up rejected preselects and will have a good shot at lottery firms because their grades still make them competitive a lot of places. If I were in the boat described above I would not be losing sleep at night.

[soullesswonder]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

It is not that bad from where I sit. Here is what you have to remember, firms pick people at the top of the class because they are in the driver's seat. It's a buyers market. I know people sitting on 35 to 45 preselects right now and have to throw them back in. As they do, the bids trickle down to the people who weren't quite as competitive. Because the 20 interview limit is lower than the 30 last year, this effect should be more pronounced. I'm assuming the top people are getting the same number of preselects but they have to let go of an additional ten this year, then alternates happen, the lottery runs, people start pounding the pavement on special requests, things come together, the crowds cheer. I'm not guaranteeing that result, or saying it will certainly work out, but I think what I just wrote is a plausible story. I encourage everyone to sharpen their pitchforks and soak their torches in gasoline ahead of time, you can never be too prepared, but it's best to wait until all the chips are on the table before actually storming the keep.

To add: I think people in the 3.4/3.5 range will benefit the most in the coming weeks. They will be first to pick up rejected preselects and will have a good shot at lottery firms because their grades still make them competitive a lot of places. If I were in the boat described above I would not be losing sleep at night.

+1 to everything, with an added WTF? for any 0L who is browsing this thread right now. Come back in 2 months when you might actually be able to get a sense of how things are going.

[dailygrind]

Thanks for the response. I guess it's just unsettling that 3.4s and 3.5s are nervous. How are median people doing? Also does anyone know what the average (or median, I guess) number of preselects was last year?

Last year they had a slightly different system. This year we're 70 preselect 30 lottery. Last year they were 60 preselect, 20 lottery, and I think 20 preselect from within top 5 lists (I'm fairly sure this is the system but I'm not 100%, so people should feel free to correct me). The number of average interviews I see thrown around for last year is 15. So on average that should have worked out to 9 preselect, 3 lottery, and 3 preselect from within top 5 lists. How that's going to end up comparing to this year is anyone's guess...we could theoretically figure it out by adding up the entirety of interview slots and then doing some quick division, but that information is only marginally useful to many of us (though I'm sure it's of great interest to others ), so I don't know that anyone has done it.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on Weil or Chadbourne?

[joeshmo39]

Any word on Weil or Chadbourne?

My research indicates continued radio silence on the part of Weil.

[StanleyF]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

Really, things are not even close to as bad as portrayed in this thread. What happened is that some preselects started to show up the night before they were supposed to appear on the web. This got some over-anxious students (which I think includes every single member of UVa Law '13, including myself) to think that all the preselects that were going to show up were already out. This was not the case. In fact what happened is that a very few preselects showed up early, and more went up the next day.

If that was the worst of it, then the panicked posts on this site would have been short lived. But then two things went wrong: 1) Symplicity (the software that handles OGI) f***ed up and failed to record a ton of preselects, so career services had to enter them by hand, which took a long time and led people to think they had been not invited (this could be fixed if Symplicity didn't have "not invited" as the default setting. Why not have "pending" as the default?). 2) A bunch of firms missed the deadline to submit preselects, and their picks trickled in (and are still trickling in) over the weekend.

Now that almost all the picks are in, I think most people wound up with roughly as many picks as they should have expected. Some have more, some have less, but most are close to what the predictions were. If someone at median was expecting to get 15 preselects, he/she probably wasn't paying very close attention when he/she met with career services.

If you look back in this thread, you will see that almost all the bitching stopped by the end of the day Friday, when most of the picks were up. I think that many of the sky-is-falling posters got more preselects and calmed down. Some people are still disappointed with their numbers, but from what I see, they are a distinct minority.

[Anonymous User]

I am a 0L (or 1L idk, c/o 2014). Trying to figure out what's going on here. Is it really as horrible as everyone is making it sound? Are firms giving fewer total interviews, or just more to the top of the class? This is scaring the shit out of me after just signing my promisory note.

Really, things are not even close to as bad as portrayed in this thread. What happened is that some preselects started to show up the night before they were supposed to appear on the web. This got some over-anxious students (which I think includes every single member of UVa Law '13, including myself) to think that all the preselects that were going to show up were already out. This was not the case. In fact what happened is that a very few preselects showed up early, and more went up the next day.

If that was the worst of it, then the panicked posts on this site would have been short lived. But then two things went wrong: 1) Symplicity (the software that handles OGI) f***ed up and failed to record a ton of preselects, so career services had to enter them by hand, which took a long time and led people to think they had been not invited (this could be fixed if Symplicity didn't have "not invited" as the default setting. Why not have "pending" as the default?). 2) A bunch of firms missed the deadline to submit preselects, and their picks trickled in (and are still trickling in) over the weekend.

Now that almost all the picks are in, I think most people wound up with roughly as many picks as they should have expected. Some have more, some have less, but most are close to what the predictions were. If someone at median was expecting to get 15 preselects, he/she probably wasn't paying very close attention when he/she met with career services.

If you look back in this thread, you will see that almost all the bitching stopped by the end of the day Friday, when most of the picks were up. I think that many of the sky-is-falling posters got more preselects and calmed down. Some people are still disappointed with their numbers, but from what I see, they are a distinct minority.

I keep seeing people say this. I know several people between top 1/3 and top 1/4 who have less than 5 preselects. It was very market dependent in terms of how well you did. If you had a 3.45 and bid all NYC you likely were getting less than 5 preselects.

Edit: This is not to say that I don't think those top 1/4 people with 4-5 preselects aren't going to end up being fine. After lottery and alternates are run I'd imagine that most of those people will end up with at least 10 and probably more interviews and also be in the best position to special request firms and have success.

[Anonymous User]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

[Julio_El_Chavo]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

You seem like one of those weird LR people that ends up with one offer at a lower V100 despite having top 5% grades.