UVa OGI 2011 thread

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:38 pm

Bingham DC and McGuireWoods Charlotte are in

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:15 pm

Anon since this question could out me based on my previous posts if someone is really bored (there's always someone really bored around here):

During interviews, should I expect to be treated differently if I'm there by lottery rather than preselect? Here are my assumptions:
1) Prior to interviewing me, the interviewer will already know that I received the interview through lottery. (can't remember if our OGI docs said otherwise, but I don't think they did)
2) If firm is in my grade range, and if the firm doesn't have any specific requirements like a science background, then the fact that I am there by lottery shouldn't mean that I have a significantly lower chance of getting called back than a preselect.
3) If the firm's minimum CB gpa in previous years is significantly above mine, my lottery interview is a waste of time.

I haven't received anything through preselect so I'm completely relying on lotteries. From what I'm hearing it sounds like I could get a decent amount of interviews. But I don't want to go through the process if it's a waste of time. I don't feel comfortable forcing someone to interview me and I'm afraid that my discomfort will shine through in my interview. I mean seriously, they know that they're only interviewing me because they have to, and I know it too.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:36 pm

IRS is in.

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5ky
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby 5ky » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:37 pm

I'm repeating myself somewhat, but I think it's important to remember that lottery interviews are basically the same here as at other schools. While it's tempting to think that because you didn't get a preselect with a firm, a lottery interview will be a waste, I just don't think that's true.

Remember, these firms had limited numbers of seats. A majority of NYC firms had around 20 interview slots to play with, giving them the opportunity to extend only 13 preselects (and an undetermined number of alternates). The chances of a median person scoring one of 13 preselects with a firm is, let's face it, pretty slim. The firm will likely give its preselects to people that are at the high end of its range, hoping to strike a balance between getting highly qualified students and not reaching too highly.

This does not mean that those without preselects are unacceptable to the firm, this just is not true. Sure, you are ranked below the firm's top whatever, but if you get a lottery selection with them, they will be aware that you ranked them highly and have a higher-than-average interest in the firm, and if you bid carefully, the lottery selections should be with firms where your GPA is a target or a not-absurd reach.

Of course, some lottery interviews will be wastes, and the people will be too far below standards. But if that's the case, then the student should really be questioning why they bid on the firm in the first place (and ranked them highly). If you have a 3.3 and you have a lottery interview with a firm whose callbacks don't dip below a 3.55 or whatever, that is probably a waste.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby 5ky » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:51 pm

Also, one last point to consider: there should also be a decently large increase in the number of lottery interviews awarded this year.

I think last year was something like 60/40, but the 40 was split up somewhat oddly? I don't recall. Regardless, because the limit of interviews this year is lower (20), anybody with 20 after the alternates get reallocated will not be participating in the lottery. That's more lottery slots that will be available for people who haven't hit the 20. Last year, people with 20-29 interviews could still hit the lottery, but all of those that were taken by those people last year will be available this year.

Of course, that's partially VERY inefficient. A firm like DPW has 60 interview slots, which means they'll have 18 open lottery slots. With most of the mid 3.5s and up probably hitting the 20 limit (either before or after the alternate reallocation), that means the 18 slots will be going to median to top quarter people. I can't imagine that DPW dips down too far for callbacks (last year it's callback average was above a 3.6 I think), so I don't imagine most of those will be converted into callbacks.

But for most of the rest of the firms, I think lottery selections will be okay. Not as great as preselects, sure, but roughly comparable to lottery selections at other schools.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anon since this question could out me based on my previous posts if someone is really bored (there's always someone really bored around here):

During interviews, should I expect to be treated differently if I'm there by lottery rather than preselect? Here are my assumptions:
1) Prior to interviewing me, the interviewer will already know that I received the interview through lottery. (can't remember if our OGI docs said otherwise, but I don't think they did)
2) If firm is in my grade range, and if the firm doesn't have any specific requirements like a science background, then the fact that I am there by lottery shouldn't mean that I have a significantly lower chance of getting called back than a preselect.
3) If the firm's minimum CB gpa in previous years is significantly above mine, my lottery interview is a waste of time.

I haven't received anything through preselect so I'm completely relying on lotteries. From what I'm hearing it sounds like I could get a decent amount of interviews. But I don't want to go through the process if it's a waste of time. I don't feel comfortable forcing someone to interview me and I'm afraid that my discomfort will shine through in my interview. I mean seriously, they know that they're only interviewing me because they have to, and I know it too.


I think you should get a work out and listen to Molossus by Hans Zimmer. Far too early to get down on yourself. I doubt they'd have the lottery if it were a waste of time.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:47 pm

Bryan Cave Atlanta is out

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:51 pm

Anyone happen to know the lowest GPA that Cravath has given a callback to in recent years? I got a preselect with them but I'm thinking with my sub 3.6 GPA I'd be better off declining, even if it meant ending up with an alternate instead (I have slightly less than 20 preselects but over a dozen alternates, so I think I'd still end up with the max interviews). Thoughts?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:58 pm

This really depends on the firm. At my firm this summer, 40% of the summers were lottery/last minute add ons to the interview schedule. Others firms however care and it will be obvious in the interview (who are you?)

Anonymous User wrote:Anon since this question could out me based on my previous posts if someone is really bored (there's always someone really bored around here):

During interviews, should I expect to be treated differently if I'm there by lottery rather than preselect? Here are my assumptions:
1) Prior to interviewing me, the interviewer will already know that I received the interview through lottery. (can't remember if our OGI docs said otherwise, but I don't think they did)
2) If firm is in my grade range, and if the firm doesn't have any specific requirements like a science background, then the fact that I am there by lottery shouldn't mean that I have a significantly lower chance of getting called back than a preselect.
3) If the firm's minimum CB gpa in previous years is significantly above mine, my lottery interview is a waste of time.

I haven't received anything through preselect so I'm completely relying on lotteries. From what I'm hearing it sounds like I could get a decent amount of interviews. But I don't want to go through the process if it's a waste of time. I don't feel comfortable forcing someone to interview me and I'm afraid that my discomfort will shine through in my interview. I mean seriously, they know that they're only interviewing me because they have to, and I know it too.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone happen to know the lowest GPA that Cravath has given a callback to in recent years? I got a preselect with them but I'm thinking with my sub 3.6 GPA I'd be better off declining, even if it meant ending up with an alternate instead (I have slightly less than 20 preselects but over a dozen alternates, so I think I'd still end up with the max interviews). Thoughts?

Last year I believe everyone they called back had north of a 3.8.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:06 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone happen to know the lowest GPA that Cravath has given a callback to in recent years? I got a preselect with them but I'm thinking with my sub 3.6 GPA I'd be better off declining, even if it meant ending up with an alternate instead (I have slightly less than 20 preselects but over a dozen alternates, so I think I'd still end up with the max interviews). Thoughts?

Last year I believe everyone they called back had north of a 3.8.


As far as I know, everyone they called back last year was actually north of a 3.9, but I might be missing someone.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby omg » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:07 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
omg wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:I miss me some Christian's Pizza anyway. It's not that it's great, it's just that I can't get pizza like that anywhere else.

Noch's >>> Christian's

I don't even know what Noch's is. I obviously missed something while I was living there.


Nonono, Pinocchio's Pizza, 74 Winthrop Street, 02138. Don't tell me you haven't been?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:08 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone happen to know the lowest GPA that Cravath has given a callback to in recent years? I got a preselect with them but I'm thinking with my sub 3.6 GPA I'd be better off declining, even if it meant ending up with an alternate instead (I have slightly less than 20 preselects but over a dozen alternates, so I think I'd still end up with the max interviews). Thoughts?

Last year I believe everyone they called back had north of a 3.8.


Wow. Good to know, thanks. My dreams of Cravath have been dashed. :lol:

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone happen to know the lowest GPA that Cravath has given a callback to in recent years? I got a preselect with them but I'm thinking with my sub 3.6 GPA I'd be better off declining, even if it meant ending up with an alternate instead (I have slightly less than 20 preselects but over a dozen alternates, so I think I'd still end up with the max interviews). Thoughts?


I've heard the same thing - since they don't call back much below their average, it's a wasted interview. i.e., even though you were called back, it's a waste of everyone's time.

SweetnessUVA
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby SweetnessUVA » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:12 pm

If they don't submit Weil or Shearman today, do you think Career Services/the firms will still input the info even though it's the weekend?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby dgouzoul » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:14 pm

KD sends emails out at 12:30am on a thursday night, I'm willing to bet he will do work on a Saturday. Dunno about the firms

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:23 pm

Is Chadbourne up for anyone yet?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is Chadbourne up for anyone yet?


No.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:54 pm

Sutherland Atlanta is in

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:13 pm

Be very careful about assuming that because last year X happened you should strategize based on it this year.

Here is a concrete example: During 2009 OGI, Cravath didn't come. 0 interviews. During 2010, they came and did 20 interviews but appeared quite reserved about giving callbacks, especially focusing on very high GPAs. BUT - both years they had an abnormally small summer class. They ALSO had issues recruiting people at other schools and wound up having to solicit more applicants during 2010 recruiting. So this year, they might be both relaxing standards AND recruiting more people, which would be a complete game changer.

Class size needs change year to year, and so do firm attitudes towards schools. My (non-Cravath) firm has stated that this year recruiting will focus more broadly on the T10, T14ish schools and less heavily on Harvard, Columbia, and NYU which had previous been dominant feeders. People from those schools may find it harder to get than data from years past while people from other schools may find it easier. Or maybe that decision will get changed the day before OCI season begins.

The point is, don't read too much into the data you have. If you've got a preselect from Cravath you should accept it. This process has a lot of randomness involved in it, and as a consequence you need to put yourself out there and let things happen instead of making careful micro level decisions.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:46 pm

Are lottery interviews wastes of time if you receive them from firms where you are within their general callback range because they did not preselect you?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby bgdddymtty » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are lottery interviews wastes of time if you receive them from firms where you are within their general callback range because they did not preselect you?
No. Go blow 'em out of the water in the interview.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby 5ky » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Are lottery interviews wastes of time if you receive them from firms where you are within their general callback range because they did not preselect you?



See above for my interpretation. Short answer: not really.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:16 pm

Still at 4 preselects/ 10 alternates. Top 1/4. All NYC.

Hoping those alts come through. Not sure what happened, the firms that preselected me are all V20 firms. Just missed out on all the firms you would think were "targets."

Not too worried overall, still think when all is said and done I'll get something, just will be harder than I thought.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:20 pm

A Latham NY alternate just popped up for me, it had been "not invited" until now. One of the 3.59ers.




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