UVa OGI 2011 thread

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Cavalier
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Sat Jul 02, 2011 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:so what do Medians do? Hit some V20s, and below, and focus on V50 and below and see what happens? CSO just sent me some charts saying where minimum of median is at some firms from least to most competitive firms, some reaches, and some where call-back averages were median (like 4 firms). CSO said I should try for some reaches too, like Jones Day, but from what I hear on here, that seems like a very long-shot. I know this is a very broad question, but I don't see a general strategy to this spiel.

Use the data CSO gave you to determine where you have the best shot, bid in a way that will guarantee you interviews at those firms, and start preparing now. Median certainly doesn't preclude landing at a V20 firm, but you only have a limited number of high bids, and so I think your first priority should be to maximize the number of of interviews you have at firms where your odds are decent. If you've got good work experience and if you think you're a good interviewer, maybe spend a couple bids on firms like Jones Day, but you're probably safer looking elsewhere. You probably already know to bid NY as opposed to DC.

In the meantime, you should start mailing firms in NY and in any secondary markets you have ties to, you should research the firms you'll interview with at OGI, and you should start practicing your interviewing. Some people with median grades who got only a half dozen or so screening interviews were able to convert all of them into callbacks and then offers; interviewing ability can make a huge difference, and unlike your GPA, you can still improve it now.

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RVP11
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby RVP11 » Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:09 pm

Jones Day (non-DC) is not a longshot for median.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby barry » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:17 pm

how futile is it to bid Atlanta w/o ties?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby RVP11 » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:12 am

barry wrote:how futile is it to bid Atlanta w/o ties?


Probably futile. Are you a southerner, at least?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:30 am

RVP11 wrote:
barry wrote:how futile is it to bid Atlanta w/o ties?

Probably futile. Are you a southerner, at least?

I agree; futile unless you're from the South.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:15 pm

Cavalier wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
barry wrote:how futile is it to bid Atlanta w/o ties?

Probably futile. Are you a southerner, at least?

I agree; futile unless you're from the South.


How about a firm at a minority job fair that pre-selects you but you have never been anywhere near the city? Is it even worth accepting the interview?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:20 pm

Of course you should expect. Interview practice is clutch. One common refrain is people overperform on later callbacks/interviews as they get comfortable with the process.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:45 pm

To that end, how big of an advantage would of having 7-8 screeners from 1L OGI and 4 callbacks as experience?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:25 pm

just curious about this: how many screener interviews lead to callbacks? So (on a ratio) if you have 6 interviews can you expect at least one callback at a firm?

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Doritos
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Doritos » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:just curious about this: how many screener interviews lead to callbacks? So (on a ratio) if you have 6 interviews can you expect at least one callback at a firm?


I imagine this will vary greatly on which firms you are interviewing, what your GPA is, and how you interview. By the way when people say "screener" they mean pre-select interviews right? So we are not talking about getting an interview via the lottery?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:33 pm

Doritos wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:just curious about this: how many screener interviews lead to callbacks? So (on a ratio) if you have 6 interviews can you expect at least one callback at a firm?


I imagine this will vary greatly on which firms you are interviewing, what your GPA is, and how you interview. By the way when people say "screener" they mean pre-select interviews right? So we are not talking about getting an interview via the lottery?


Yes. But from my understanding of it (talking to 3Ls) once you get a preselect you passed the the firm's criteria (GPA and WE). Not talking about lottery. Say you are a GOOD interviewer.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby barry » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Cavalier wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
barry wrote:how futile is it to bid Atlanta w/o ties?

Probably futile. Are you a southerner, at least?

I agree; futile unless you're from the South.



That's what I figured, no i'm not southern but I had some extra bids that i was thinking of throwing there but I could probably find a better way to use them

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To that end, how big of an advantage would of having 7-8 screeners from 1L OGI and 4 callbacks as experience?


It would be very helpful, but in an unquantifiable way. I know I thought my 1L job searching and interviewing was a major boost going into 2L OCI - but not because it was worth "GPA points" or substituted for my lack of work or anything - it just meant I didn't have quite the level of "oh shit this is the first time I've ever done this" jitters that some did.

Anonymous User wrote:just curious about this: how many screener interviews lead to callbacks? So (on a ratio) if you have 6 interviews can you expect at least one callback at a firm?


The variables here are not independent. On the high end, I know some people who were converting interviews into callbacks at an 80%+ ratio. Those people tended to have glistening resumes and, after extensive research, targeted firms and markets they knew would match their background.

Plenty of people had 10 interviews and 0 callbacks.

One thing that you CAN ballpark is offer ratio after ballbacks. The stingiest (large) firms would often callback 3+ people for every offer they intended to make, while the most lax would make offers to 90%+ of the people they called back. "Average" - to the extent it existed - was probably in the 50-70% range. It's safe to assume that if a firm is calling you back they're prepared to make you an offer, but there are many more firms making offers in the 60-70% range than there are in the 90%+ range.

At smaller firms it can vary more widely, as a firm might see it as a worthwhile investment to callback 10 people for 1 or 2 offers if they really want to make sure their 1 summer is a perfect fit.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:just curious about this: how many screener interviews lead to callbacks? So (on a ratio) if you have 6 interviews can you expect at least one callback at a firm?

Impossible to say. I know plenty of people who I am confident would receive at least one callback even if they had only two screening interviews; I know other people who would not receive one callback even with thirty screening interviews. How you do in converting screening interviews to callbacks (and callbacks to offers) depends enormously on your credentials, your interviewing ability, the firms you target, and so on. I will say that if you get preselected by six firms and your grades make you competitive at those firms (i.e. those firms are not longshots), if you fail to get one callback you're probably doing something wrong. But OCI is an unpredictable mess--you can have the credentials for a firm, interview perfectly, and still not get called back. So you may just be unlucky if you don't recieve a callback from six screening interviews.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:11 pm

Bidlist Critique: Top 25% aiming for Corporate work in NyC. All bids are NyC.

Obviously, not many NyC firms to leave off, so more interested in general order critiquing. More information: splitting summer between a firm and a judge, and have received an offer from my firm to return for the 2L summer.

1. Sidley
2. Ropes
3. Cahill
4. Akin Gump
5. Weil
6. Jones Day
7.Proskauer
8. Simpson Thacher
9. Orrick
10. Clifford Chance
11. Chadbourne & Parke
12. White & Case
13. Shearman & Sterling
14. Kirkland Ellis
15. Gibson Dunn
16. Davis Polk
17. Dewey
18. Linklaters
19. Wilkie
20. Seward & Kissel
21. Skadden
22. Cleary
23. Cadwalader
24. Curtis-Mallett
25. Schulte Roth
26. Debevoise
27. Freshfields
28. Latham
29. Paul Hastings
30. Hunton and Williams
31. Nixon Peabody
32.Milbank Tweed
33. Morgan Lewis
34. Fried Frank
35. Paul Weiss
36. WilmerHale
37. Katten Munchin
38. King & Spalding
39. Hogan Lovells
40. Mayer Brown
41. Kenyon & Kenyon
42. Winston Strawn
43. Brown Rudnick
44. Alston Bird
45. Baker McKenzie
46. Dechert
47. Kasowitz
48. Allen & Overy
49. Vinson & Elkins
50. Baker Hostettlor

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:21 pm

Too lazy to scan all fifty firms to see if you're leaving off anyone important, but in general I think it you have the right idea. Generally your top bids should go to firms that have only one or two interview rooms, as you're less likely to get preselected there. A firm like Skadden will probably interview a ton of students, so you're likely to get preselected there, and accordingly, shouldn't feel the need to bid them high. You're right to leave Cravath and Sullcrom off, and to include the rest of the V10.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:25 pm

Cavalier wrote:Too lazy to scan all fifty firms to see if you're leaving off anyone important, but in general I think it you have the right idea. Generally your top bids should go to firms that have only one or two interview rooms, as you're less likely to get preselected there. A firm like Skadden will probably interview a ton of students, so you're likely to get preselected there, and accordingly, shouldn't feel the need to bid them high. You're right to leave Cravath and Sullcrom off, and to include the rest of the V10.



Should I be bidding on Covington(NyC)?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Too lazy to scan all fifty firms to see if you're leaving off anyone important, but in general I think it you have the right idea. Generally your top bids should go to firms that have only one or two interview rooms, as you're less likely to get preselected there. A firm like Skadden will probably interview a ton of students, so you're likely to get preselected there, and accordingly, shouldn't feel the need to bid them high. You're right to leave Cravath and Sullcrom off, and to include the rest of the V10.



Should I be bidding on Covington(NyC)?


I would. It's a cool office, and so many people will try for its DC office it might be a little under subscribed. I'd knock Latham off the list for it, but that depends on your tolerance for firms that are Latham.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:32 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Too lazy to scan all fifty firms to see if you're leaving off anyone important, but in general I think it you have the right idea. Generally your top bids should go to firms that have only one or two interview rooms, as you're less likely to get preselected there. A firm like Skadden will probably interview a ton of students, so you're likely to get preselected there, and accordingly, shouldn't feel the need to bid them high. You're right to leave Cravath and Sullcrom off, and to include the rest of the V10.



Should I be bidding on Covington(NyC)?


I would. It's a cool office, and so many people will try for its DC office it might be a little under subscribed. I'd knock Latham off the list for it, but that depends on your tolerance for firms that are Latham.


Should I feel strongly enough about my chances of landing a market paying gig in NyC to where I can be discarding a firm like Latham where I have a decent change of getting hired? (Regardless of how much their partners suck as people)

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Should I feel strongly enough about my chances of landing a market paying gig in NyC to where I can be discarding a firm like Latham where I have a decent change of getting hired? (Regardless of how much their partners suck as people)


Personal call. If it were me I would say yes. If you want to be sneaky: Do you know what day they're interviewing? If it's towards the end of OGI, don't bid on them, and if shit isn't looking good (a lot of NYC firms give callbacks within 24-72 hours of the interview) you can special request them. If not Latham, you can go ahead and prioritize firms that interview early, which will leave you room to try and sweet talk your way into the later firms if you run into trouble early on.

I'd never thought of that before. I'm feeling clever. Thesealocust: Adding value to your OGI plans since 7/3/2011.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:54 pm

I don't think now is the time to start striking firms from bid lists. It's a strong firm, you've got a decent chance of getting hired there, so leave it on. I personally wouldn't take Latham over a similarly situated firm, and I don't know many who would, but you can always reject them (a) if you get more than thirty preselects and have to decline interviews, or (b) when you get an offer from somewhere else.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:56 pm

RVP11 wrote:Jones Day (non-DC) is not a longshot for median.


I know of at least a couple of examples to the contrary in the classes of 2010 and 2012.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby bgdddymtty » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:05 pm

What's the deal with Latham?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 03, 2011 10:09 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:What's the deal with Latham?


Not sure if serious.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Doritos » Sun Jul 03, 2011 11:05 pm

bgdddymtty wrote:What's the deal with Latham?


I know a great yellow puppet that would be perfect for this




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