UVa OGI 2011 thread

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dailygrind
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby dailygrind » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:20 pm

Fuck I hate that website sometimes. I think it's probably a good thing overall that the numbers are getting out there, I just wish that they could come from a school not ours, or that at we'd have some company.

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5ky
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby 5ky » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:it's going to be really interesting if and how ocs addresses this to all of us since kd's email after the first round of preselects were released shows that someone in ocs is reading tls and has to be reading above the law


Addresses what, exactly? Don't tell me you really thought UVA was placing everyone in quality Biglaw or BigGov jobs. 1/4 of the class is unemployed, that is not at all surprising, in my opinion.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:34 pm

I want to see the numbers for HYS. Ironically enough they seem to disclose the least amount of information. And once we discover their numbers, we can truly find out what things look like for people looking into law school. Whatever things look like for them we know that that's as good as it gets.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:40 pm

5ky wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it's going to be really interesting if and how ocs addresses this to all of us since kd's email after the first round of preselects were released shows that someone in ocs is reading tls and has to be reading above the law


Addresses what, exactly? Don't tell me you really thought UVA was placing everyone in quality Biglaw or BigGov jobs. 1/4 of the class is unemployed, that is not at all surprising, in my opinion.


not at all. i'm just interested to see if there is a reply since they emailed us so quickly when everyone was freaking out over the preselects. i actually don't think these numbers are that big of a deal. i think it's a little embarrassing that they got leaked and attached to uva, but the numbers themselves are not particularly surprising.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:53 pm

I'm not going to quote it, but I resent the heck out of statements that insult folks at the OCS. If it's a bad job market, it's bad job market. Leave it at that.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to quote it, but I resent the heck out of statements that insult folks at the OCS. If it's a bad job market, it's bad job market. Leave it at that.


I couldn't agree more. CSO works extremely hard for us.

albanach
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby albanach » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:16 pm

dailygrind wrote:Fuck I hate that website sometimes. I think it's probably a good thing overall that the numbers are getting out there, I just wish that they could come from a school not ours, or that at we'd have some company.


Wouldn't this information be available through Freedom of Information requests from other public schools?

I've been surprised at how much information the school must have about employment statistics that isn't readily available. Is the VA act weak or has nobody currently at the school asked for it?

That said, as a 0L I don't see anything surprising in these numbers. There are plenty of other graduate programs that would struggle to place 75% of the class into jobs, not to mention a couple of hundred other law schools that wouldn't achieve that even at the height of hiring.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby dailygrind » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:38 pm

albanach wrote:
dailygrind wrote:Fuck I hate that website sometimes. I think it's probably a good thing overall that the numbers are getting out there, I just wish that they could come from a school not ours, or that at we'd have some company.


Wouldn't this information be available through Freedom of Information requests from other public schools?

I've been surprised at how much information the school must have about employment statistics that isn't readily available. Is the VA act weak or has nobody currently at the school asked for it?

That said, as a 0L I don't see anything surprising in these numbers. There are plenty of other graduate programs that would struggle to place 75% of the class into jobs, not to mention a couple of hundred other law schools that wouldn't achieve that even at the height of hiring.


I'm not familiar with FOIA's reach, but I'm willing to bet good money that this information is covered under one of the various exceptions. There are a LOT of sophisticated people who are interested in this information, and (sorry to invoke tired economic assumptions, but) if it were available somebody would have put it out there by now.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:38 pm

Class of 2011 got absolutely destroyed everywhere. UVa is not alone in this in the T14.

The numbers are significantly better for the c/o 2012.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:33 pm

This Virginia Law Weekly piece comes in the wake of an email from Career Services that warned students about controlling their web presence. Apparently students who had targeted the Big Apple for OCI this year struck out, and the only advice Career Services had to offer was to “preserve [the] Virginia mystique” by not “going crazy in the blogosphere."


Shit like this makes me want to bitch slap ATL and especially any idiot who forwarded the email to them. KD's words were far from the "only advice Career Services had to offer," and considering we were acting like crazy people, they were necessary and deserved.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby 5ky » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This Virginia Law Weekly piece comes in the wake of an email from Career Services that warned students about controlling their web presence. Apparently students who had targeted the Big Apple for OCI this year struck out, and the only advice Career Services had to offer was to “preserve [the] Virginia mystique” by not “going crazy in the blogosphere."


Shit like this makes me want to bitch slap ATL and especially any idiot who forwarded the email to them. KD's words were far from the "only advice Career Services had to offer," and considering we were acting like crazy people, they were necessary and deserved.


Also, lol @ "struck out." More like, "didn't get as many preselects as hoped, but relax until the alternates + lottery work out." Jesus, why do people forward this shit to ATL.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby bgdddymtty » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This Virginia Law Weekly piece comes in the wake of an email from Career Services that warned students about controlling their web presence. Apparently students who had targeted the Big Apple for OCI this year struck out, and the only advice Career Services had to offer was to “preserve [the] Virginia mystique” by not “going crazy in the blogosphere."


Shit like this makes me want to bitch slap ATL and especially any idiot who forwarded the email to them. KD's words were far from the "only advice Career Services had to offer," and considering we were acting like crazy people, they were necessary and deserved.
+1

Also, it would be rather helpful to have context such as the fact that those people didn't "strike out," but rather that the comments in question were made before any of those people had any idea of how many total interviews they would have at OGI. Donovan handled it perfectly.

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dailygrind
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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby dailygrind » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This Virginia Law Weekly piece comes in the wake of an email from Career Services that warned students about controlling their web presence. Apparently students who had targeted the Big Apple for OCI this year struck out, and the only advice Career Services had to offer was to “preserve [the] Virginia mystique” by not “going crazy in the blogosphere."


Shit like this makes me want to bitch slap ATL and especially any idiot who forwarded the email to them. KD's words were far from the "only advice Career Services had to offer," and considering we were acting like crazy people, they were necessary and deserved.


+1.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to quote it, but I resent the heck out of statements that insult folks at the OCS. If it's a bad job market, it's bad job market. Leave it at that.

1:31 here. I don't think you'll find anyone who has met with Hopson who thinks he does a good job. Donovan is amazing, and overall OCS does their best to help everyone find firm jobs and to assist those who don't, but Hopson gives a lot of bad advice and is quite unaware of how bad the hiring situation is. My earlier comment was a tad harsh, but I would strongly urge those going to OCS to meet with anyone but him.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:28 pm

ATL wrote:First, the number of email recipients may not reflect the true number of unemployed graduates. The editors suggest that maybe some had gotten jobs, but forgot to ask to be removed from the List That Shall Not Be Named.

A more likely scenario, to my mind, is that some UVA Law graduates were too proud to admit to the school administration that they were still unemployed, and names that should be on the list just aren’t. In other words, it’s possible that the unemployed percentage could be higher.


How in the world is that a more likely scenario? This is one of the dumber things I've seen from an ATL writer, and that's saying a lot.

Graduates who get a job have very little incentive to inform the CSO. Graduates who are still looking have every incentive to solicit as much help as possible from CSO by remaining on the list. (And, I believe, it is anonymous with regard to other students.)

Who would be too proud to admit to CSO that they're still unemployed? Their job is to help you get you a job. We pay their salaries. Does Ms. Zaretsky also think people who pay their psychologists $300/hour are too proud to admit their personal problems during visits?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ATL wrote:First, the number of email recipients may not reflect the true number of unemployed graduates. The editors suggest that maybe some had gotten jobs, but forgot to ask to be removed from the List That Shall Not Be Named.

A more likely scenario, to my mind, is that some UVA Law graduates were too proud to admit to the school administration that they were still unemployed, and names that should be on the list just aren’t. In other words, it’s possible that the unemployed percentage could be higher.


How in the world is that a more likely scenario? This is one of the dumber things I've seen from an ATL writer, and that's saying a lot.

Graduates who get a job have very little incentive to inform the CSO. Graduates who are still looking have every incentive to solicit as much help as possible from CSO by remaining on the list. (And, I believe, it is anonymous with regard to other students.)


I dunno, if I were 2011 and still unemployed at this point I think I'd have given up on getting help from CSO by now. I'd probably have a "fuck em" attitude about them and wouldn't ask to be included on their mailing lists.

It's true that I would have plenty of incentive to solicit help from CSO, but I'd also be depressed and angry enough that I wouldn't be acting completely rationally even if it were contrary to my interests.

I don't think I'm an oddity wrt to this. The mentality of those who've graduated jobless after years of working their asses off will be very different from those of us who still have at least some potential to secure decent jobs.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Z3RO » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:37 pm

I'm not a big UVA fan, but I completely agree with the analysis in this thread. The ATL article is pure speculation in order to make an interesting headline. Like somebody said before, 100 people is high, because there's no incentive to tell Career Services "please stop sending me advice and opportunities," but even if it wasn't that's not actually so horrible when you look at every professional degree other than hard sciences.

The fact that there are probably around 80% of people with jobs before passing the bar actually makes me really hopeful.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to quote it, but I resent the heck out of statements that insult folks at the OCS. If it's a bad job market, it's bad job market. Leave it at that.

1:31 here. I don't think you'll find anyone who has met with Hopson who thinks he does a good job. Donovan is amazing, and overall OCS does their best to help everyone find firm jobs and to assist those who don't, but Hopson gives a lot of bad advice and is quite unaware of how bad the hiring situation is. My earlier comment was a tad harsh, but I would strongly urge those going to OCS to meet with anyone but him.


I dont know why Dean Hopson gets shit on so much. I have spoken to him on multiple occasions and he has given me candid and helpful advice. He shared info with me that I could not get out of the rest of OCS and he has been nothing but extremely helpful. Maybe my interaction is not the norm but I have nothing but good things to say about the man.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to quote it, but I resent the heck out of statements that insult folks at the OCS. If it's a bad job market, it's bad job market. Leave it at that.

1:31 here. I don't think you'll find anyone who has met with Hopson who thinks he does a good job. Donovan is amazing, and overall OCS does their best to help everyone find firm jobs and to assist those who don't, but Hopson gives a lot of bad advice and is quite unaware of how bad the hiring situation is. My earlier comment was a tad harsh, but I would strongly urge those going to OCS to meet with anyone but him.


I dont know why Dean Hopson gets shit on so much. I have spoken to him on multiple occasions and he has given me candid and helpful advice. He shared info with me that I could not get out of the rest of OCS and he has been nothing but extremely helpful. Maybe my interaction is not the norm but I have nothing but good things to say about the man.


How do you know what he told you was accurate?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:04 pm

The ATL article is complete bullshit and almost entirely speculation. The site is simply trying to create a story out of nothing. In an Aug 10th article about the Mercer Law student accused of murder, the author wrote, regarding ATL stories, "we are in a slow news period." I say fuck em.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:14 pm

It's well known that ATL consistently exhibits a weird hatred of UVA. This article didn't surprise me.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not going to quote it, but I resent the heck out of statements that insult folks at the OCS. If it's a bad job market, it's bad job market. Leave it at that.

1:31 here. I don't think you'll find anyone who has met with Hopson who thinks he does a good job. Donovan is amazing, and overall OCS does their best to help everyone find firm jobs and to assist those who don't, but Hopson gives a lot of bad advice and is quite unaware of how bad the hiring situation is. My earlier comment was a tad harsh, but I would strongly urge those going to OCS to meet with anyone but him.


I dont know why Dean Hopson gets shit on so much. I have spoken to him on multiple occasions and he has given me candid and helpful advice. He shared info with me that I could not get out of the rest of OCS and he has been nothing but extremely helpful. Maybe my interaction is not the norm but I have nothing but good things to say about the man.


How do you know what he told you was accurate?


When he gave the advice he supported it. How would someone know if the advice OCS gives is wrong? They give advice about how to put yourself in the best position to get a job, reasons why you should pick one firm over another, how to bid intelligently. He backed his opinions up with hard GPA data, facts about the firms, past hiring practices, etc. He seems to be just as knowledgeable as anyone else in OCS and I find him more candid and forthcoming with the data than anyone else. Again, I dont know about other people's interactions but mine have been nothing but great.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:When he gave the advice he supported it. How would someone know if the advice OCS gives is wrong? They give advice about how to put yourself in the best position to get a job, reasons why you should pick one firm over another, how to bid intelligently. He backed his opinions up with hard GPA data, facts about the firms, past hiring practices, etc. He seems to be just as knowledgeable as anyone else in OCS and I find him more candid and forthcoming with the data than anyone else. Again, I dont know about other people's interactions but mine have been nothing but great.


He will reveal your class standing. For people who are really desperate to know that particular number, you'll get it out of him and not anyone else, likely. That being said, I think that he has been over his career a very effective CSO member. I think, though, that given the changing times, he's out of his element. I question whether or not he has had the kind of quality experience of the current hiring mentality of firms to make him as effective as KD is. It's not so much that his advice is bad, but rather now out of season. In the summery golden age, Hopson to tell you exactly how much sunscreen to put on. But winter's coming, and you need someone to tell you when to wear a coat.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:46 pm

Payne will reveal class standing too if it actually matters for you (i.e. if you're competitive for federal court of appeals clerkships). That's a lie, UVA Law does not rank its students.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Payne will reveal class standing too if it actually matters for you (i.e. if you're competitive for federal court of appeals clerkships). That's a lie, UVA Law does not rank its students.


LOL no it isn't. They will release it for limited purposes. Judges often want it.




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