UVa OGI 2011 thread

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:54 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I know we're advised to put our GPA's on our resumes, but I seem to remember hearing apocryphally that we're discouraged from approximating a class percentile/rank? Anyone seen this in writing anywhere?


Pretty sure it's against the honor code to put rank.


Lol no.


Really? Guess my PAs lied to my section.

Shocker.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 4:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How confident should I be if I'm bidding all NyC with top 1/4 grades?

What sort of firms are the target firms for someone in my GPA range?

Odds I can fill up all 20 interview slots?

Thanks

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
vamedic03 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I know we're advised to put our GPA's on our resumes, but I seem to remember hearing apocryphally that we're discouraged from approximating a class percentile/rank? Anyone seen this in writing anywhere?


Pretty sure it's against the honor code to put rank.


Lol no.


Really? Guess my PAs lied to my section.

Shocker.


I asked CSO & they wouldn't give out exact rank numbers besides median & top 1/4, so I would hesitate in listing rank since it does seem to fluctuate a bit every year. Plus, you're already including your transcript with every application (I assume) which gives the 50% & 25% numbers, so recruiters should be able to approx. off of that, or I figure they could probably get the info directly from CSO (if it's through OGI)...

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:26 pm

(1) Do not under any circumstances attempt to put an approximated rank on your transcript. It will make you look obnoxious, it is very likely to be wrong, nobody else will be doing it, firms already have all the information they need between other applicants and CSO cut-off info printed on transcripts, and, to repeat for effect, it will make you look obnoxious.

Anonymous User wrote:How confident should I be if I'm bidding all NyC with top 1/4 grades?

What sort of firms are the target firms for someone in my GPA range?

Odds I can fill up all 20 interview slots?

Thanks


To cut through the usual bullshit, if you have a 3.48+ and are bidding on all NYC firms, you should feel pretty confident. The next nuclear reactor to blow up could be right next to where you work this summer, you could have a horrific personality / stench, the financial world could collapse even harder than it did last time this summer, etc. But realistically your grades + desired market are enough to carry you through.

As for filling up interview slots, that depends entirely on how many firms are coming, how many students each of those firms are interviewing, and a mixture of the intelligence and aggressiveness of your bidding strategy. I would not expect 20 interviews, but I would expect having an above average number, and 20 wouldn't be surprising with some hustle.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:42 pm

Put GPA on resume, if it is around a 3.31, but there was some improvement second semester?: From a 3.12 to 3.48ish. So say: "3.31 (Second Semester GPA: 3.48)" . It's odd that there is no actual GPA on the career services transcripts. I figure it doesn't hurt to put it on the resume, but if it adds very little value, I might as well leave out the line, and add a line on my work experience.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Put GPA on resume, if it is around a 3.31, but there was some improvement second semester?: From a 3.12 to 3.48ish. So say: "3.31 (Second Semester GPA: 3.48)" . It's odd that there is no actual GPA on the career services transcripts. I figure it doesn't hurt to put it on the resume, but if it adds very little value, I might as well leave out the line, and add a line on my work experience.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Leave it off; the parenthetical will make your resume stand out for being unusual, and will draw attention to the fact that your grades are median. Employers will already see that you improved your grades when they view your transcript.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby omg » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Put GPA on resume, if it is around a 3.31, but there was some improvement second semester?: From a 3.12 to 3.48ish. So say: "3.31 (Second Semester GPA: 3.48)" . It's odd that there is no actual GPA on the career services transcripts. I figure it doesn't hurt to put it on the resume, but if it adds very little value, I might as well leave out the line, and add a line on my work experience.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


I have heard that you should only think about putting your GPA on your transcript if it's top 1/4. And people, if your GPA is especially high, DEFINITELY put it on there. I don't think that this was made clear enough to my class last year.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:24 pm

thesealocust wrote:(1) Do not under any circumstances attempt to put an approximated rank on your transcript. It will make you look obnoxious, it is very likely to be wrong, nobody else will be doing it, firms already have all the information they need between other applicants and CSO cut-off info printed on transcripts, and, to repeat for effect, it will make you look obnoxious.

Anonymous User wrote:How confident should I be if I'm bidding all NyC with top 1/4 grades?

What sort of firms are the target firms for someone in my GPA range?

Odds I can fill up all 20 interview slots?

Thanks


To cut through the usual bullshit, if you have a 3.48+ and are bidding on all NYC firms, you should feel pretty confident. The next nuclear reactor to blow up could be right next to where you work this summer, you could have a horrific personality / stench, the financial world could collapse even harder than it did last time this summer, etc. But realistically your grades + desired market are enough to carry you through.

As for filling up interview slots, that depends entirely on how many firms are coming, how many students each of those firms are interviewing, and a mixture of the intelligence and aggressiveness of your bidding strategy. I would not expect 20 interviews, but I would expect having an above average number, and 20 wouldn't be surprising with some hustle.


Thanks again for taking the time to do this. One more question: what exactly does "hustle" involve?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:24 pm

omg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put GPA on resume, if it is around a 3.31, but there was some improvement second semester?: From a 3.12 to 3.48ish. So say: "3.31 (Second Semester GPA: 3.48)" . It's odd that there is no actual GPA on the career services transcripts. I figure it doesn't hurt to put it on the resume, but if it adds very little value, I might as well leave out the line, and add a line on my work experience.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


I have heard that you should only think about putting your GPA on your transcript if it's top 1/4. And people, if your GPA is especially high, DEFINITELY put it on there. I don't think that this was made clear enough to my class last year.


So, definitely list your GPA at a 3.5?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks again for taking the time to do this. One more question: what exactly does "hustle" involve?


Odds are good that Skadden won't just come and do some interviews, they'll set up a room with snacks and promotional materials and a few attorneys to answer questions to people who are walking by (a 'hospitality suite'). If you didn't get an interview with Skadden, but you are willing to hustle, you might swing an interview by putting yourself out there via the hospitality suite.

At least one firm last year had a particularly devoted partner doing interviews who canceled all or almost all of his breaks to interview other students who hadn't been on the initial list. No hospitality suite, but still bonus interviews.

Every day CSO will receive some cancellations or some notifications of extra slots, and if you stay in touch you can pick up alternate slots on some firm schedules.

I'm sure there are things I haven't thought of too. Hustling!

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Doritos » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
omg wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put GPA on resume, if it is around a 3.31, but there was some improvement second semester?: From a 3.12 to 3.48ish. So say: "3.31 (Second Semester GPA: 3.48)" . It's odd that there is no actual GPA on the career services transcripts. I figure it doesn't hurt to put it on the resume, but if it adds very little value, I might as well leave out the line, and add a line on my work experience.

Any thoughts? Thanks.


I have heard that you should only think about putting your GPA on your transcript if it's top 1/4. And people, if your GPA is especially high, DEFINITELY put it on there. I don't think that this was made clear enough to my class last year.


So, definitely list your GPA at a 3.5?


Yes

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:47 pm

I agree that you should definitely list your GPA when it's north of a 3.5. As far as "hustling" goes, you should definitely try and land additional interviews via special requests and dropping by hospitality suites. Plenty of people get callbacks and even offers through screening interviews gained this way. I'll also add that some firms maintained a checklist of interviewees who visited their hospitality suite (e.g., Hogan Lovells). If you're at all interested in a firm, you should at least meet their people in the hospitality suite if they have one,and certainly go to any events the firm hosts.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:48 pm

Cavalier wrote:I agree that you should definitely list your GPA when it's north of a 3.5. As far as "hustling" goes, you should definitely try and land additional interviews via special requests and dropping by hospitality suites. Plenty of people get callbacks and even offers through screening interviews gained this way. I'll also add that some firms maintained a checklist of interviewees who visited their hospitality suite (e.g., Hogan Lovells). If you're at all interested in a firm, you should at least meet their people in the hospitality suite if they have one,and certainly go to any events the firm hosts.


Okay, silly question, but what if it is a 3.49?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:49 pm

If you had a 3.5 GPA, would you take it off when you use that resume for bids on firms with historically higher means than a 3.5 gpa callback?

I'm considering only listing my GPA (around 3.5) for firms that have that range, but for my reaches, taking it off.

Bad idea?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I agree that you should definitely list your GPA when it's north of a 3.5. As far as "hustling" goes, you should definitely try and land additional interviews via special requests and dropping by hospitality suites. Plenty of people get callbacks and even offers through screening interviews gained this way. I'll also add that some firms maintained a checklist of interviewees who visited their hospitality suite (e.g., Hogan Lovells). If you're at all interested in a firm, you should at least meet their people in the hospitality suite if they have one,and certainly go to any events the firm hosts.

Okay, silly question, but what if it is a 3.49?

Sure; it shows you're above the 3.48 "top quarter" designation on the Symplicity transcript. I'm not sure where to draw the line as far as listing one's GPA goes. Certainly a 3.3x shows you're near the median, which may not do you much good.

Anonymous User wrote:If you had a 3.5 GPA, would you take it off when you use that resume for bids on firms with historically higher means than a 3.5 gpa callback?

I'm considering only listing my GPA (around 3.5) for firms that have that range, but for my reaches, taking it off.

Bad idea?

I would recommend always including it. If the firm won't take you because your 3.5ish GPA isn't good enough (and there are only a few firms that fall into this category), I don't think you'll be able to trick them by not revealing your GPA. At this firm, the vast majority of the students it is seriously considering will have their GPAs listed, so you'll stand out in a bad way. Just list your GPA, interview as well as you can, and hope for the best.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I agree that you should definitely list your GPA when it's north of a 3.5. As far as "hustling" goes, you should definitely try and land additional interviews via special requests and dropping by hospitality suites. Plenty of people get callbacks and even offers through screening interviews gained this way. I'll also add that some firms maintained a checklist of interviewees who visited their hospitality suite (e.g., Hogan Lovells). If you're at all interested in a firm, you should at least meet their people in the hospitality suite if they have one,and certainly go to any events the firm hosts.


Okay, silly question, but what if it is a 3.49?
FWIW, CSO told me last week to definitely put my 3.4x GPA on my resume, and to make sure it was a separate line (as opposed to, say, putting it on the JD Candidate line after a semicolon).

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Does anyone have any idea how selective STB and Weil are in terms of GPA?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Does anyone have any idea how selective STB and Weil are in terms of GPA?


Yep. Assuming NYC offices (other offices are harder to predict) STB is usually slightly more selective. Neither 'require' LR grade on like credentials to be competitive, but both are Fancy and like people with grades that are High. I'd say one could comfortably bid on both with anywhere in the 3.4+ range, and maybe still bid Weil even if you're around median but that would be a stretch. To very roughly ballpark it, I'd say you need top thirdish to be competitive at Weil and top quarterish to be competitive at STB, but the higher the better.

Note that it's hard to say with any precision because the violent recent spasms have meant fewer offers going around for everyone. Most of my data is pre-crash, so what tea leaves I can read are fairly dated.

Also, standard caveat: With law firm hiring it's much better to look at the range of students they hire from than it is to look at something like the average GPA of people who get offers or callbacks. Outside of a few notorious firms, most will hire from a range of GPAs, and as long as you're in the group they look at you certainly won't be wasting a bid or 20 minutes of your time trying to get the offer, even if your odds are lower than somebody walking in with a 3.8 or something.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:10 pm

Whats the thoughts about rounding up GPA? Say you have a 3.498, could you list it on your resume as a 3.5?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Whats the thoughts about rounding up GPA? Say you have a 3.498, could you list it on your resume as a 3.5?


Some schools forbid any rounding, some schools encourage you to round to the nearest hundredth (making that 3.49). I don't think it's every acceptable practice to round to the nearest tenth. I honestly don't recall if UVA has a policy on this, but I'm pretty sure it's not worth worrying about, just don't round any further than to the hundredth place.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:22 pm

I would round to the hundredth. Especially if you list your undergrad GPA in the hundredths, listing your law school GPA in the thousandths would look awkward.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:25 pm

Cavalier wrote:I would round to the hundredth. Especially if you list your undergrad GPA in the hundredths, listing your law school GPA in the thousandths would look awkward.



Do you need to have your UG GPA on your resume?

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Cavalier » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I would round to the hundredth. Especially if you list your undergrad GPA in the hundredths, listing your law school GPA in the thousandths would look awkward.

Do you need to have your UG GPA on your resume?

If it's good you might as well. You certainly don't need to though.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:27 pm

Ok so then would putting 3.50 be okay? My undergrad GPA is on my resume.

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Re: UVa OGI 2011 thread

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:30 pm

Cavalier wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you need to have your UG GPA on your resume?

If it's good you might as well. You certainly don't need to though.


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