UVa OGI 2011 thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since Mayer Brown wasn't on KD's latest list, can I assume their picks have been posted?

[Anonymous User]

Since Mayer Brown wasn't on KD's latest list, can I assume their picks have been posted?

Yes you can assume that.

[Anonymous User]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

Yes I feel bad for you having to consider turning down Cravath. Perhaps one of the people with 3 preselects can console you.

[Anonymous User]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

Yes I feel bad for you having to consider turning down Cravath. Perhaps one of the people with 3 preselects can console you.

I'm slightly above top 1/4 and have 4 preselects, I'm sorry that I am taking away at your shot at Cravath, how ever will you go on?

[bgdddymtty]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

This is nonsense. Who do you think Cravath et. al's alternates are? I'll give you a hint: they're people who thought their grades were good enough to not be wasting a bid on firms like Cravath.

Also, yes, if you're not able to get a satisfactory offer with 20 interviews and top-of-the-class grades, the problem isn't with the system. You should be thankful to be part of a recruiting system that puts so much emphasis on one variable that happens to be your strong suit. Do you really think that your preparation to be a lawyer is that much better than someone who scored a step below you on two or three exams?

[Anonymous User]

How much does being a general social and personable person translate into interviewing? For the most part are the people who are good at interviewing the ones that you would expect to be or is there really no correlation at all?

[Anonymous User]

How much does being a general social and personable person translate into interviewing? For the most part are the people who are good at interviewing the ones that you would expect to be or is there really no correlation at all?

Interviewing is a skill, being sociable is good obviously, but not knowing how to relate your experiences to the job you are interviewing for will not cut it no matter how personable you are. law firm interviews seem to be a lot easier than other types though, so im sure personality matters more.

[Anonymous User]

How much does being a general social and personable person translate into interviewing? For the most part are the people who are good at interviewing the ones that you would expect to be or is there really no correlation at all?

A good interview is essentially a conversation between the candidate and the interviewer. If you're too awkward to carry a conversation normally, its pretty clear that you wouldn't interview well. There are plenty of students at UVa who are qualified to do the legal work. Employers are looking for someone they wouldn't mind hanging out with.

That said, there are obviously interview skills you can learn.

[showNprove]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

Are you asking for sympathy because you may have to choose between six offers instead of nine?

[barry]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

Are you asking for sympathy because you may have to choose between six offers instead of nine?

haha i'm hopin this guy is a flame

[Anonymous User]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

This is nonsense. Who do you think Cravath et. al's alternates are? I'll give you a hint: they're people who thought their grades were good enough to not be wasting a bid on firms like Cravath.

Also, yes, if you're not able to get a satisfactory offer with 20 interviews and top-of-the-class grades, the problem isn't with the system. You should be thankful to be part of a recruiting system that puts so much emphasis on one variable that happens to be your strong suit. Do you really think that your preparation to be a lawyer is that much better than someone who scored a step below you on two or three exams?

Give this guy a break. He raises valid complaints and you insult his achievements in law school.

[timbs4339]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

This is nonsense. Who do you think Cravath et. al's alternates are? I'll give you a hint: they're people who thought their grades were good enough to not be wasting a bid on firms like Cravath.

Also, yes, if you're not able to get a satisfactory offer with 20 interviews and top-of-the-class grades, the problem isn't with the system. You should be thankful to be part of a recruiting system that puts so much emphasis on one variable that happens to be your strong suit. Do you really think that your preparation to be a lawyer is that much better than someone who scored a step below you on two or three exams?

Give this guy a break. He raises valid complaints and you insult his achievements in law school.

I know this type of person. When he turns down three times as many callbacks as you have total callbacks, or gets an offer he wants to take but decides to keep taking callbacks for the free trips and food, you'll be singing a different tune.

[Anonymous User]

I understand why people are upset but it really is a valid complaint. If you bid a market with a signifcantly lower callback and screener conversion rate, it makes it tough. Ocs will tell you conversion rates in dc could be less than one third at both screener and cb stage.

Was also just saying that the goal of 20 screeners would be so the interviews would trickle down but in a sense I think the trickle down is slightly overrated. Firms have to have a lot more alternates this year than last because of the increased numbers of preselects they will see declining. This lowers the overall effectiveness of the alternate position. An alternate in the 1 or 2 spot is obviously fine but at the margins, those alternates behave like lotteries.

Didn't mean to upset anyone. Thought people would see what I was saying but I obviously misgauged the environment I was speaking in.i

[bgdddymtty]

Of course the preselect round is very skewed to the top of the class. But, at the same time if its any indication, myself and the 10 to 15 people I've asked with top 15 percent grades, every single one has 20+, regardless of market. Personally I think the 20 cap is ridiculous from last years 30 and it harms people who did well. People may say oh if you can't get a job with 20 you're weird, but its gonna make it harder to accept screeners with selective firms like cravath, etc. I know I'm turning down some elites and probably those won't trickle down and give people a chance.

Fwiw a lot of people I know are turning down firms like cravath also and not firms that will trickle down and give a 3.5 a meaningful good chance at em

This is nonsense. Who do you think Cravath et. al's alternates are? I'll give you a hint: they're people who thought their grades were good enough to not be wasting a bid on firms like Cravath.

Also, yes, if you're not able to get a satisfactory offer with 20 interviews and top-of-the-class grades, the problem isn't with the system. You should be thankful to be part of a recruiting system that puts so much emphasis on one variable that happens to be your strong suit. Do you really think that your preparation to be a lawyer is that much better than someone who scored a step below you on two or three exams?

Give this guy a break. He raises valid complaints and you insult his achievements in law school.

1. Why is this anonymous? Someone should own this comment.

2. I did no such thing. I disagreed with him on the effect of high-GPA students turning down preselects with uber-selective firms, asserted that students who get 20 interviews because of their superior grades ought to be able to get appealing offers barring some deficiency in interviewing/social skills, and contended that GPA is given weight in the interview selection process disproportionate to its predictive value as a harbinger of legal success. As for his achievement in law school, I merely pointed out that the difference between having to give up excess preselects and having to wait for interviews to trickle down is two or three grade steps over the course of eight (or so) classes. This is an undeniably true, factual assertion.

3. In what way are his complaints valid?

[oneforship]

Of course his/her complaints are valid. Especially if he/she is bidding on a broad set of markets. Given the general audience here, his complaints may be a bit insensitive, but that does not make them invalid.

We're all in this together, so everyone would be wise to just relax a little bit; bickering is entirely unhelpful.

[Anonymous User]

Does it mean I've been thinking about OGI too much when I wake up in a brief fit of anxiety after dreaming that I was rushing around at the last minute trying to find my pug an interview appropriate collar?

I don't own a pug.

[vanwinkle]

Don't want to have to do this, but I will start outing people if folks start turning on each other. This is just a general warning. Keep your cool and remember, this thread is for sharing information and supporting each other.

[ManEater1234]

when do we find out whether alternate spots that we've accepted turn into interviews? will this pop up with the lottery? or is it like the special request process where it's posted on the day of the interviews?

[5ky]

when do we find out whether alternate spots that we've accepted turn into interviews? will this pop up with the lottery? or is it like the special request process where it's posted on the day of the interviews?

This occurs August 4th through the 7th. What is unclear is whether it will show up in real time, or whether it will just be posted with lottery results. I am assuming the latter, although those who accept 20 or close to 20 preselects, plus their alternates, should find out in real time which of their alternates will have turned to preselects. KD has said that for such people, he will contact them as it occurs to determine which preselect the person would want to drop in order to accept the alternate.

But, for those below the 20 threshold, I will guess that these results will just be posted after that period + the lottery are finished; I believe that this is what happened last year.

[Cavalier]

The 20 interview cap is certainly restrictive if you're fortunate enough to have more options, but I think it's for the best. Getting as many students as possible summer associate positions should be UVA's priority; ensuring that those at the top have the ability to choose between offers at several top firms is less important. The consequences of striking out at OGI are vastly more severe than the consequences of not landing an offer the best possible firm, and the latter is much more easy to remedy (through 3L OGI after receiving an offer, and post-clerkship hiring) than the former. So even if the interview cap only results in five or ten more students receiving summer associate positions, I think it's undoubtedly justified.

Remember that UVA is the only top school to use preselects at all. So even though the interview cap hurts the most successful students, UVA already provides more advantages to those students than the other top schools.

[Stringer Bell]

Getting as many students as possible summer associate positions should be UVA's priority

I agree 100% with this.

[Anonymous User]

Chadbourne NY just posted for me.

[Anonymous User]

Chadbourne NY just posted for me.

Alternated! 3.59, runs me to 12 alternates now.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also staring down an alternate at 3.54. C'mon trickledown, do your thing.

[Anonymous User]

Not invited at Chadbourne. 3.5 and holding strong at 4 preselects 10 alternates.