Vault 2012 Rankings

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Moxie
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Moxie » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:43 pm

Vault rankings are stupid, example 1: no way is Weil more prestigious than W&C

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:05 pm

^^^^ (Disgruntled W&C Associate) ^^^^

Aston2412
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Aston2412 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:45 pm

No. That's accurate. W&C is legendary.

shoeshine
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby shoeshine » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:49 pm

Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:57 pm

Aston2412 wrote:No. That's accurate. W&C is legendary.


It was a joke. Relax brother.

(And I'd rather be a W&C associate disgruntled about being V15 than V10 than any other type of associate, hence the irony of my joke)

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Helmholtz
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:03 pm

shoeshine wrote:Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?


I don't have any explanations, but that might be a good thing to ask during your OCI interview.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:05 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?


I don't have any explanations, but that might be a good thing to ask during your OCI interview.


I don't know if you're being sarcastic. In case you aren't, don't ever say "Vault" in a big firm interview.

09042014
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:05 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?


I don't have any explanations, but that might be a good thing to ask during your OCI interview.


I plan to ask them what they are going to contract their decline.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:47 pm

shoeshine wrote:Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?


The rankings are an absolute joke. E.g. Jones Day > WilmerHale, White and Case > MoFo.

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Moxie
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Moxie » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:48 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:^^^^ (Disgruntled W&C Associate) ^^^^


I wish. :|

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:54 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?


The rankings are an absolute joke. E.g. Jones Day > WilmerHale, White and Case > MoFo.


WilmerHale vs. Jones Day is more debatable, but agreed on White & Case.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:59 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Are there any concrete explanations for why the rankings move? For example, why did WilmerHale slip so much this year?


The rankings are an absolute joke. E.g. Jones Day > WilmerHale, White and Case > MoFo.


WilmerHale vs. Jones Day is more debatable, but agreed on White & Case.


They are closer, but Jones Day is just a massively oversized, albeit decent, shop.

I think firms like Wilmer, Ropes, MoFo and W&C get hurt in these things because they're very NYC biased. [this isn't to mean that Ropes/Wilmer are in the same league selectivity-wise as MoFo/W&C]. Thats another thing about these rankings, they don't really track selectivity super well.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:11 pm

I feel like you're just bitter because you work for one of those Boston firms. Neither Ropes nor Wilmer are that well managed, and they are not in much better shape than Jones Day. Moreover, your claim about NYC bias only goes so far. Recall that K&E and Covington, two non-NYC firms, are now firmly in the V10. Debevoise went down, as did Paul Weiss. Wilmer's decline is, I think, accurate. Since their merger with Hale & Dorr, things just haven't been the same. As a DC institution, it has been in decline for a while. It was once a peer to Covington, but no longer is.

And these are prestige rankings, not selectivity rankings. If they were selectivity rankings, they would look something like:
1) Bartlit Beck
2) Susman Godfrey
3) Wachtell
4) Munger
5) Kellog Huber
6) W&C
7) Zuckerman Spaeder
8) Robins Russell
9) Altschuler Berzon
10) Keker

They wouldn't be exactly like that, but my point is that you'd go through something like 15 firms before even touching what, today, constitutes the Vault 10. The problem is that "prestige" encapsulates more than just "selectivity." As an overall firm, for example, Munger Tolles isn't doing super well. They aren't doing poorly either. But their financials don't suggest that the firm is rapidly on the rise or in growth mode. They're just sort of humming along. Not prestigious.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:13 pm

seriouslyinformative wrote:I feel like you're just bitter because you work for one of those Boston firms.


Hah, fair enough :oops: .

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rayiner
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby rayiner » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:52 pm

Kirkland solidly V10 where they belong.

Renzo
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:11 pm

Moxie wrote:Vault rankings are stupid, example 1: no way is Weil more prestigious than W&C


No, that's right. Washington DC is a fesTTTering shiTTThole; no place at all for a preftigious law firm.

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smokyroom26
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby smokyroom26 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:29 pm

Renzo wrote:
Moxie wrote:Vault rankings are stupid, example 1: no way is Weil more prestigious than W&C


No, that's right. Washington DC is a fesTTTering shiTTThole; no place at all for a preftigious law firm.


I LOLed. :D

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thesealocust
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:16 am

Moxie wrote:Vault rankings are stupid, example 1: no way is Weil more prestigious than W&C


Vault is stupid, but so are comments like this. Ask a bankruptcy attorney, or hell, any corporate attorney, which firm is more prestigious. Prestige - to the extent it has any meaning at all - isn't a binary metric.

Give us this day our daily chambers & partners. Sane & sober.

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:12 am

Give us this day our daily chambers & partners. Sane & sober.


C&P isn't exactly perfect either. It is better than Vault, though, so I'll concede that.

Renzo wrote:No, that's right. Washington DC is a fesTTTering shiTTThole; no place at all for a preftigious law firm.


I don't think DC is TTT. But I do think it's overrated as a market. Many firms in that city did some pretty atrocious things that DC people are selectively forgetting, while exaggerating the things NYC firms did. I remember some poster here... vamedic... saying that NYC firms laid off "half" their associates. Kind of funny... considering that the only firms that came close to doing that were Latham, Sidley, Orrick, Allen & Overy, and Linklaters... none of which are based in NYC (and only one of which really has a sizable presence in NYC).

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vamedic03
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby vamedic03 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:31 am

seriouslyinformative wrote:
Give us this day our daily chambers & partners. Sane & sober.


C&P isn't exactly perfect either. It is better than Vault, though, so I'll concede that.

Renzo wrote:No, that's right. Washington DC is a fesTTTering shiTTThole; no place at all for a preftigious law firm.


I don't think DC is TTT. But I do think it's overrated as a market. Many firms in that city did some pretty atrocious things that DC people are selectively forgetting, while exaggerating the things NYC firms did. I remember some poster here... vamedic... saying that NYC firms laid off "half" their associates. Kind of funny... considering that the only firms that came close to doing that were Latham, Sidley, Orrick, Allen & Overy, and Linklaters... none of which are based in NYC (and only one of which really has a sizable presence in NYC).[/]

1) It's called mild hyperbole

2) You have failed to mention Cadawalader and White & Case.

3) Why do you have such hate for DC?

seriouslyinformative
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby seriouslyinformative » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:45 am

1) It's called mild hyperbole


Oh, it's great to know that in your quest to be a quality poster with some degree of credibility, you're willing to overstate your claims in order to make an argument.

2) You have failed to mention Cadawalader and White & Case.


And I failed to mention Howrey. Ouch, right?

3) Why do you have such hate for DC?


Zero hate. I just feel like everything needs to be put into perspective. I think DC is overrated and some reality needs to be injected here. NYC has its own problems, too. But I think the overall tenor of recent TLS threads and the entire tome of autoadmit do a good job of emphasizing those problems.

Anonymous User
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Re: Vault 2012 Rankings

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:15 pm

Could somone post the full Vault lists- beyond the top 15?

Weil is claiming a "triple" top 10- we'd like to see the competitors




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