Is The Industry This Bad?

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bk1
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:36 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:A nice sized group of law students, particularly at the T14, feel as though only prestigious/big law jobs count as jobs.

That's retarded.


I believe this is right. Anyone from NYU who is "jobless" is only so because they don't want to accept a job somewhere they feel is beneath them, or not in the market they feel entitled to. You know what? You move where the work is. You don't whine like a bitch about the "bad market" because you can't get 160k in NYC.


While this is true to a point, let's not ignore the fact that there are and will be many people from top schools who are underemployed compared to their debt level.

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fatduck
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby fatduck » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:37 pm

i graduated from a somewhat respectable engineering school and i suspect that at least 20% of my classmates were unemployed at graduation (talking about real jobs here, not starbucks). if you count the ones who went to PhD programs because they couldn't find a job, it's probably closer to 30 or 40%. welcome to america.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:40 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:A nice sized group of law students, particularly at the T14, feel as though only prestigious/big law jobs count as jobs.

That's retarded.


I believe this is right. Anyone from NYU who is "jobless" is only so because they don't want to accept a job somewhere they feel is beneath them, or not in the market they feel entitled to. You know what? You move where the work is. You don't whine like a bitch about the "bad market" because you can't get 160k in NYC.



Uhhh... no. There really weren't enough jobs to go around for the class of 2011, even at T6 schools. That's the reason why NYU students are jobless. I think you terribly underestimate the drive of people who are smart enough and hard-working enough to get into NYU in the first place. Almost none of them would choose to be unemployed or refuse to take a job that is "beneath" them.

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bk1
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:41 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote: I think you terribly underestimate the drive of people who are smart enough and hard-working enough to get into NYU in the first place.


Fucking lol.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:42 pm

fatduck wrote:i graduated from a somewhat respectable engineering school and i suspect that at least 20% of my classmates were unemployed at graduation (talking about real jobs here, not starbucks). if you count the ones who went to PhD programs because they couldn't find a job, it's probably closer to 30 or 40%. welcome to america.


LOL. Why do I always see news reports about how "zOMG THERE WON'T BE ENOUGH ENGINEERS IN AMERICA IN 10 YEARS!!!!" It seems like complete and utter bullshit when you consider that 1) engineers don't get paid as much as other "high demand" jobs, and 2) lots of engineers are unemployed.

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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:44 pm

bk1 wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote: I think you terribly underestimate the drive of people who are smart enough and hard-working enough to get into NYU in the first place.


Fucking lol.


Seriously, the suggestion that a significant number of NYU law students would prefer sitting on their asses and wasting their time as opposed to getting jobs that are supposedly easy to get is retarded.

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zanda
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby zanda » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:46 pm

So many things wrong ITT.

For now I'll just say that
1) I know several jobless classmates who applied all over the country to jobs of varying prestige. Some have good extracurriculars, others have average.
2) "X percent of class is unemployed" does not equal "People in the top (100-x)% will get jobs."

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bk1
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:47 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote: I think you terribly underestimate the drive of people who are smart enough and hard-working enough to get into NYU in the first place.


Fucking lol.


Seriously, the suggestion that a significant number of NYU law students would prefer sitting on their asses and wasting their time as opposed to getting jobs that are supposedly easy to get is retarded.


No. I was laughing because you equate getting a 3.8+ GPA or 170+ LSAT with being smart/driven.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:53 pm

bk1 wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Julio_El_Chavo wrote: I think you terribly underestimate the drive of people who are smart enough and hard-working enough to get into NYU in the first place.


Fucking lol.


Seriously, the suggestion that a significant number of NYU law students would prefer sitting on their asses and wasting their time as opposed to getting jobs that are supposedly easy to get is retarded.


No. I was laughing because you equate getting a 3.8+ GPA or 170+ LSAT with being smart/driven.


Everything is relative. The amount of "drive" you need to polish up your job application materials and fire off letters/emails/phone calls when you're unemployed is about the same as the amount of drive you need to take a shit when you have diarrhea and you've just eaten Chipotle. This amount of drive is probably less than what is needed to average a 3.8 over four years of college or study for the LSAT.

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dr123
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby dr123 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:01 pm

I kind of suspect that a lot of K-JD students don't understand the reality of the job market and aren't particularly willing to settle so soon. Im sure after a few months of unemployment following graduation, they wise up and take what they can get.

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:03 pm

dr123 wrote:I kind of suspect that a lot of K-JD students don't understand the reality of the job market and aren't particularly willing to settle so soon. Im sure after a few months of unemployment following graduation, they wise up and take what they can get.


See my comments supra for why this is wrong.

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dr123
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby dr123 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:12 pm

Julio_El_Chavo wrote:
dr123 wrote:I kind of suspect that a lot of K-JD students don't understand the reality of the job market and aren't particularly willing to settle so soon. Im sure after a few months of unemployment following graduation, they wise up and take what they can get.


See my comments supra for why this is wrong.


You definitely didn't prove my statement wrong anywhere in this thread

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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:16 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:A nice sized group of law students, particularly at the T14, feel as though only prestigious/big law jobs count as jobs.

That's retarded.


I believe this is right. Anyone from NYU who is "jobless" is only so because they don't want to accept a job somewhere they feel is beneath them, or not in the market they feel entitled to. You know what? You move where the work is. You don't whine like a bitch about the "bad market" because you can't get 160k in NYC.


This is simply incorrect. Why is it so difficult to accept that the legal market is brutal right now. There is a sizeable number of students at T14s that do not have jobs. They did not have bad grades and they do not seem to have bad personalities. It is also not b/c they refuse to take a job that does not pay 160k in NYC. This might apply to a few students, but not most of them. I am sorry that it upsets you to imagine that there are so many unemployed T14 grads b/c it makes you confront that fact they you might be unemployed, but it is the truth.

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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby shoeshine » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:28 pm

I know this is sort of not relevant but I know an NYU law grad who is unemployed. She graduated in Edit:2010 2009 and just had a baby. She is going to be a stay at home mom because her new husband makes ridiculous money (not in law). I wonder if the official employment figures include cases like her where the graduate is not even looking for jobs.

P.S. I know many of you will say her law degree was a waste and I would tend to agree accept for the fact that her parents paid out out of pocket for her tuition so she has no debt. She may also decide she wants to use her degree later in life. I really am not sure what the plan is because we only keep in contact via FB.
Last edited by shoeshine on Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fatduck
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby fatduck » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:29 pm

shoeshine wrote:I know this is sort of not relevant but I know an NYU law grad who is unemployed. She graduated in 2010 and just had a baby. She is going to be a stay at home mom because her new husband makes ridiculous money (not in law). I wonder if the official employment figures include cases like her where the graduate is not even looking for jobs.

P.S. I know many of you will say her law degree was a waste and I would tend to agree accept for the fact that her parents paid out out of pocket for her tuition so she has no debt. She may also decide she wants to use her degree later in life. I really am not sure what the plan is because we only keep in contact via FB.

please keep us abreast of the situation

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NYC Law
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby NYC Law » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:31 pm

Does anyone have any actual data to contribute or is this just going to be another "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING (EVEN THOUGH THIS IS BASED ENTIRELY ON SECOND HAND ESTIMATES)"?

I'm all for realism and skepticism, but the level of pessimism purported by a small sect of users is just retarded.

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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby keg411 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:37 pm

NYC Law wrote:Does anyone have any actual data to contribute or is this just going to be another "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING (EVEN THOUGH THIS IS BASED ENTIRELY ON SECOND HAND ESTIMATES)"?

I'm all for realism and skepticism, but the level of pessimism purported by a small sect of users is just retarded.


You are wrong. There is all of the reason in the world to be pessimistic and you will be too once OCI and the potential of graduating unemployed is staring you in the face.

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thesealocust
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:38 pm

NYC Law wrote:Does anyone have any actual data to contribute or is this just going to be another "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING (EVEN THOUGH THIS IS BASED ENTIRELY ON SECOND HAND ESTIMATES)"?

I'm all for realism and skepticism, but the level of pessimism purported by a small sect of users is just retarded.


The most recent bureau of labor statistics estimate was about 30,000 entry level jobs open every year to new JDs, and about 45,000 new graduates. It noted competition would be keen, if I recall correctly.

So yeah. No bueno.

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zanda
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby zanda » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:41 pm

Anecdotal evidence is sufficient to contradict negated existential statements.
Last edited by zanda on Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fatduck
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby fatduck » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:43 pm

zanda wrote:Anecdotal evidence is sufficient to contradict negated universal statements.

well now you're just saying words

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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:44 pm

thesealocust wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Does anyone have any actual data to contribute or is this just going to be another "OMG THE SKY IS FALLING (EVEN THOUGH THIS IS BASED ENTIRELY ON SECOND HAND ESTIMATES)"?

I'm all for realism and skepticism, but the level of pessimism purported by a small sect of users is just retarded.


The most recent bureau of labor statistics estimate was about 30,000 entry level jobs open every year to new JDs, and about 45,000 new graduates. It noted competition would be keen, if I recall correctly.

So yeah. No bueno.


I am all for optimism and the like but all the posters saying that the grads will be fine and eventually find something are delusional. It is a simple math problem. There are more grads than jobs. Even if every grad hustled insanely, thousands would still fail to find something. If ppl want to go to law schoold, by all means go, but potential student and current students should be aware that the legal market is really bad and that there is a significantly chance that they might be unemployed through no fault of their own.

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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:45 pm

"Class of 2010 Graduates Faced Worst Job Market Since Mid-1990s: Longstanding Employment Patterns Interrupted"
-NALP

Data below:

http://www.nalp.org/classof2010

/thread

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zanda
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby zanda » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:46 pm

fatduck wrote:
zanda wrote:Anecdotal evidence is sufficient to contradict negated universal statements.

well now you're just saying words

If the claim is that everyone who's unemployed at NYU didn't work hard or hasn't applied to "lesser" jobs, and I know of several classmates who worked hard and applied all over to all sorts of jobs and are unemployed, yup, that'll do Pig, that'll do.


EDIT- I see now that what I meant was either "negated existential" or "universal," not "negated universal." My B.
Last edited by zanda on Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dr123
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby dr123 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:49 pm

zanda wrote:
fatduck wrote:
zanda wrote:Anecdotal evidence is sufficient to contradict negated universal statements.

well now you're just saying words

If the claim is that everyone who's unemployed at NYU didn't work hard or hasn't applied to "lesser" jobs, and I know of several classmates who worked hard and applied all over to all sorts of jobs and are unemployed, yup, that'll do Pig, that'll do.


I dont think the "everyone" claim was made. The wording was "a lot".

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AreJay711
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Re: Is The Industry This Bad?

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:"Class of 2010 Graduates Faced Worst Job Market Since Mid-1990s: Longstanding Employment Patterns Interrupted"
-NALP

Data below:

http://www.nalp.org/classof2010

/thread


Actually that data makes the situation not look that bad on an aggregate sense across time. It still sucks for the unemployed graduate though.




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