Mich OCI 2011

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Helmholtz
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any opinions on whether it matters whether one opts for the JLR vs. MTTLR if one wants to do corporate transactional work in CA (working with tech companies, start ups, etc)? I have heard that JLR is the second best journal at Mich, but it seems MTTLR would be more relevant to my interests. Than again, there are many that say no journal will make much of a difference and that grades will mostly dictate OCI performance. Thoughts?


I would just go with the journal that is more related to what you want to go into. It's not like any employer would hire you with JLR on your resume, but not MTTLR.

Anonymous User
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any opinions on whether it matters whether one opts for the JLR vs. MTTLR if one wants to do corporate transactional work in CA (working with tech companies, start ups, etc)? I have heard that JLR is the second best journal at Mich, but it seems MTTLR would be more relevant to my interests. Than again, there are many that say no journal will make much of a difference and that grades will mostly dictate OCI performance. Thoughts?


I'm not sure JLR's prestige relative to the other journals really matters (and honestly I doubt either is particularly helpful). How many employers really know Reform is more prestigious, or give it that much weight, especially when they know you didn't get Law Review? I guess it's far easier for me to envision a tech-focused employer using MTTLR membership as indication of interest/experience for a that sector than one hiring because of Law Reform thanks to it having a bit of extra presitge. Most commonly probably neither is helpful, and if you already have a solid tech background you may not need the MTTLR cred.

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How keen was Mark in sharing that information?

He did not seem to mind looking it up, and in fact, volunteered to do so (I only asked when it would be made available).

Anonymous User
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any opinions on whether it matters whether one opts for the JLR vs. MTTLR if one wants to do corporate transactional work in CA (working with tech companies, start ups, etc)? I have heard that JLR is the second best journal at Mich, but it seems MTTLR would be more relevant to my interests. Than again, there are many that say no journal will make much of a difference and that grades will mostly dictate OCI performance. Thoughts?


I'm not sure JLR's prestige relative to the other journals really matters (and honestly I doubt either is particularly helpful). How many employers really know Reform is more prestigious, or give it that much weight, especially when they know you didn't get Law Review? I guess it's far easier for me to envision a tech-focused employer using MTTLR membership as indication of interest/experience for a that sector than one hiring because of Law Reform thanks to it having a bit of extra presitge. Most commonly probably neither is helpful, and if you already have a solid tech background you may not need the MTTLR cred.


Consider this too: you will be interviewing at OCI for one week, and then you will have a some half-day or so callbacks. But your journal membership is a two YEAR commitment. Seems to me choosing a journal based on what interests you and with whom you'd like to work is way more important than how it will "play" at OCI. Especially because it won't make a difference (how you talk about it in an interview will, though). Pretty sure the idea that MJLR has more prestige is probably just propagated by people who are on MJLR.

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:34 pm

I'm not sure when, but at some point in the past few weeks the 2010 stats went live on the Careers website. [Class of 2010 = SAs during 2009 = OCI in fall of 2008... right before the poop hit the fan]

http://www.law.umich.edu/careers/classs ... stats.aspx

10 initial observations, mostly indicating the complete havoc of ITE:

1. Class of 2010 was about 40 students smaller than 2009, so keep the other numbers in perspective.
2. But even with a smaller class, 70 fewer students were in private practice.
3. Clerkship massacre - down to 38 total clerks, 27 of whom report salaries. Previous years had 50-odd clerks, and a higher proportion reporting their salaries.
4. Salary reporting falls off a cliff. From ~250 reporting down to 169, despite the smaller graduating class? Interestingly, this drop almost exactly corresponds to the drop in the raw # of students in private practice.
5. Something is very, very weird about the 2010 government placement stats. From 10 in 2008 and 2009 up to 34? But only 9 of them report salaries? "Government fellowships," or what?
6. Similarly, public interest ticks up by 5 students despite a smaller class. Not sure how much you can draw from that, though, or from the jump from 20-some students in 07/08 to 30-some in 09/10.
7. 180/374 (48%) of students went to firms with more than 100 attorneys. Previous year was 263/412 (64%).
8. The "academic" and "business" numbers are higher than 2009, but don't look too different from numbers in earlier years.
9. Why no salary information on the business or public interest categories? Almost identical numbers of students in PI and in clerkships, but only the clerkship salary info is included.
10. Assuming that the 3 students not reporting anything at all were unemployed at graduation, that's 16 out of 374 unemployed (4.3%)... and if you'll buy that, I'm willing to swap my Eastern and Western Michigan tickets for your ND and OSU tickets straight up.


I don't really have the inclination to dig deeper right now... but I'm sure there are other trends worth noting as well. Have at it.

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Bronte
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Bronte » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:right before the poop hit the fan


It's "poop hit the propeller" bro.

goodolgil
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby goodolgil » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:51 pm

So what in the heckfire is the deal with this business journal? I didn't know it was starting up so soon until I got the email the other day. Kinda wish it was part of the normal journal app process.

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Bronte
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Bronte » Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:54 pm

goodolgil wrote:So what in the heckfire is the deal with this business journal? I didn't know it was starting up so soon until I got the email the other day. Kinda wish it was part of the normal journal app process.


I sure as hell wouldn't apply to it if I weren't already on a journal. However, if I weren't, I probably would. Seems like a good opportunity in that way.

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:02 pm

How do you indicate you are participating in a journal on your resume?

For example:
University of Michigan Law
Selected for Michigan Law Review
or Michigan Law Review
or Michigan Law Review associate editor?

Anonymous User
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:18 pm

- Associate Editor, Michigan Law Review.

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:19 pm

I'd also like to hear more thoughts re: the Mich. Journal of Private Equity and Venture Capital...

It is more in line with my interests than the secondary journal I was accepted to last week but I am unsure that it will look like a legitimate journal on a resume, given that it's so new...

Anonymous User
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:21 pm

Have all Law Review decisions gone out already? I haven't heard anything either way...

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:25 pm

I don't think you're the only one who hasn't heard anything. It seems there might be some sort of secret waitlist or something, maybe waiting till transfers try to write on? I would def contact someone about it though

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Have all Law Review decisions gone out already? I haven't heard anything either way...


You're probably on the waitlist. Initial offers have gone out, but there's a window to accept or decline the offer. You should hear by next week, I'm guessing.

(I'm not sure who'd decline, unless they're A) transferring to HYS, or B) are rocking a 1L GPA above 3.8, don't care about clerking, and don't want to spend the next 2 years living in Sub 3).

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:- Associate Editor, Michigan Law Review.


Thanks!

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doinmybest
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby doinmybest » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I haven't come up with anything even resembling a bidlist yet though because I'm waiting to see how many interview spots each firm has. Friends at other T14s have said this stat appears on simplicity when bidding opens up, can anyone who has already been through Mich OCI confirm that this is the case?



Would love to see if anyone has any info on this.

03121202698008
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby 03121202698008 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:36 pm

doinmybest wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I haven't come up with anything even resembling a bidlist yet though because I'm waiting to see how many interview spots each firm has. Friends at other T14s have said this stat appears on simplicity when bidding opens up, can anyone who has already been through Mich OCI confirm that this is the case?



Would love to see if anyone has any info on this.


I don't know if it does but considering OCP says they ask for more slots/days from popular firms, it wouldn't be final even if it did.

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SweetrollStealer
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby SweetrollStealer » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:47 am

So anyone else still have no idea how to make a good bid list?

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doinmybest
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby doinmybest » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:26 am

nhop wrote:So anyone else still have no idea how to make a good bid list?


+1

You can sit there and contemplate strategy all you want but in the end, it's kind of a crap shoot.

GMVarun
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby GMVarun » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:35 am

nhop wrote:So anyone else still have no idea how to make a good bid list?


I guess a good bid list is one that gets you a good percentage of firms in your grade range, a few above, and a few below. I think the actual numerical ranking is largely random (since you cannot know how other people will rank). However, the 30 you choose is important and I think is determinative of a good bid list: including big classes, limiting firms to two(ish) markets (with NY being 1 of those 2 unless you really dislike NY), focusing on either litigation or transactional firms (if you know you want one or the other), discounting or not including firms that are doing really poorly, and having the right balance in grade selectivity. If you do all of these things and just rank in some sensible way (i.e. by grade selectivity), you have a good bid list imo.

goodolgil
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby goodolgil » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:50 am

So for people mass mailing, do you recommend emailing recruiters directly even if the firm has put up a Resume Collect on symplicity? Or should you use that? Does it matter?

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cardinalandgold
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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby cardinalandgold » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:32 am

Does anyone know how many slots a day each firm has? Does it vary by firm, or do all firms who interview in any given day have the same number of slots available for interviews?

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:59 pm

goodolgil wrote:So for people mass mailing, do you recommend emailing recruiters directly even if the firm has put up a Resume Collect on symplicity? Or should you use that? Does it matter?


I'm wondering about this too, because the whole document approval thing is annoying. Also would like to know whether they review them as they get them, or all at once after the upload deadline (obviously hoping for the former). I've sent in a couple via symplicity already, but nothing to report. Yet. :|

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
goodolgil wrote:So for people mass mailing, do you recommend emailing recruiters directly even if the firm has put up a Resume Collect on symplicity? Or should you use that? Does it matter?


I'm wondering about this too, because the whole document approval thing is annoying. Also would like to know whether they review them as they get them, or all at once after the upload deadline (obviously hoping for the former). I've sent in a couple via symplicity already, but nothing to report. Yet. :|


Not a Michigan student, but I do go to a T10 school whose OCI a few desirable firms don't come to. I've had a lot of success directly e-mailing the recruiting contact as opposed to uploading my resume on the symplicity website.

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Re: Mich OCI 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:40 pm

cardinalandgold wrote:Does anyone know how many slots a day each firm has? Does it vary by firm, or do all firms who interview in any given day have the same number of slots available for interviews?

I emailed OCP and they were extremely unhelpful. They said:
The number of interview slots varies from employer to employer. There isn't necessarily a correlation between the number of offices for which an employer is interviewing and the number of slots available. My advice is to rank the employers who you are most interested in higher than the employers that interest you less.

This is a very simple question and not something that should be difficult for OCP to find out. If Ropes & Gray with their 6 offices (or Jones Day with their 15 offices) has the same number of interview slots as Paul Weiss with their one office, that would be useful to know.




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