HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

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What firms should I bid for?

V10
7
12%
V11-25
13
23%
V25-40
10
18%
V40 on down
27
47%
 
Total votes: 57

Anonymous User
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:11 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
APimpNamedSlickback wrote:I seriously doubt that our grading system lends itself to this kind of analysis. Do you really think that just two more Hs, which presumably be enough to catapult op over median, would really be enough to drastically change his job prospects? I doubt it.

Our grading system simply doesnt allow for those kinds of fine distinctions between people outside of the top and bottom 20%. My guess is that so much turns on stuff other than grades for the vast majority of students. Thus, I doubt an analysis of whether some dude is at he 40th 50th or 60th percentile is very useful. At least that is my fairly substantiated opinion, although of course feel free to disagree...


So, you don't think that there would be a difference in a person's job prospects--who is demonstrably below median--if that person was above median? That's . . . odd.


Well my point was that +/- 1 or 2 Hs probably can't make as big of a marginal difference in one's prospects that people are suggesting here. Of course, this doesn't apply to the few firms that adhere to hard cut-offs.


+/- 1 H probably won't make a big difference. +/- 2 Hs probably makes a bigger difference because that could conceivably take someone from about Top 33-40% to about Top 10%.

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Any rising 2Ls know specifically which firms will take these grades? Anyone know about chances at Jones Day, Ropes & Gray, Paul Hastings? I have fairly strong involvement in a secondary journal, and I'm involved in a couple of other campus activities. I'm a fairly good interviewer--not socially awkward.

And also, can someone tell me wtf it takes to do well on exams? Clearly, I'm doing it wrong.


You won't get Jones Day or Ropes & Gray. Unsure about Paul Hastings, but that seems like you'd be out as well. I knew people last year with better grades who didn't get callbacks at these firms (who were otherwise personable people). You should probably look around V50 firms as a target.


Do you think there is a difference in this advice for someone with 1H as opposed to 2? Or is V50 still accurate?


V50 probably isn't accurate. I knew people with similar grades who were URM who had a tough time getting V100 even in NY. Assuming that there's not anything super special you bring to the table (URM, some kind of great work experience), I'd bid broadly from V50-V100 and probably target in the V75-ish range.

hls_2013
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby hls_2013 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:V50 probably isn't accurate. I knew people with similar grades who were URM who had a tough time getting V100 even in NY. Assuming that there's not anything super special you bring to the table (URM, some kind of great work experience), I'd bid broadly from V50-V100 and probably target in the V75-ish range.


Mind PMing me? I have 1 H and would like to bother you for some more info

Anonymous User
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:13 pm

Well all of this is quite depressing. So the impression I'm getting is that V25 and up are reaches for me, whereas my target firms should be around V50? What does that leave me? DLA Piper, Freshfields, Dewey? I'm looking at Vault, and I've never heard of basically all of the firms under 55. Fuuuuu!

Can someone give me advice for how to ace interviews and/or mitigate the grade situation?

Also, any advice for doing well on exams? I truly worked really hard in the spring: memorized my outlines, did practice exams, etc. I thought I knew my shit. Why didn't it translate onto the exam? I keep seeing "apply the law to the facts" in these exam advice pages. I thought that's what I was doing. I didn't sit there rehashing facts and doing obviously wrong stuff. What gives?

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englawyer
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:28 pm

you should look here:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157843

2P is a 3.2 on HLS pseudo grading scale so you are probably in a similar position to that CLS poster.

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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Sure, apply law to the facts. Know your stuff. But there are three factors that will really make or break you:

1. Understand what your professor is looking for. Old exams are important, but even more helpful is getting your hands on model answers that earned an A or an H on the exam.

2. Quantity over quality. I'm not kidding. This doesn't mean you should write garbage or that you can afford to make multiple typos or grammatical mistakes either. But in my experience, professors will reward you for writing more, not less. Since grading is typically performed on a rubric, you will be better served by hitting every conceivable issue you spot. Being a fast typist is also obviously an asset here. I don't think I've ever had a 3-hour exam where I churned out fewer than 4000 words (assuming no word limit). Of exams in that vein, only once have I earned a P. Everything else was an H. All-day take-home exams or exams with word limits, on the other hand, have been my Achille's heel.

3. Organization counts for a lot. Each paragraph should address a single idea. Make sure the order in which you assess issues makes sense. Emphasize dispositive issues over secondary ones. Use headings and other markers to break up the answer into digestible portions.

hls_2013
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby hls_2013 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:32 pm

englawyer wrote:you should look here:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=157843

2P is a 3.2 on HLS pseudo grading scale so you are probably in a similar position to that CLS poster.


I saw that, but then the CLS person mentioned that that was median at CLS, while 2 H's is below median so not sure if or how we should really compare

Anonymous User
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:44 pm

Definitely do not compare. The curves at HLS and CLS are quite different. What gets you top 10% at HLS would be laughably high at CLS.

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englawyer
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby englawyer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:48 pm

hls_2013 wrote:
englawyer wrote:you should look here:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157843

2P is a 3.2 on HLS pseudo grading scale so you are probably in a similar position to that CLS poster.


I saw that, but then the CLS person mentioned that that was median at CLS, while 2 H's is below median so not sure if or how we should really compare


OP might be in a slightly worse off position, but I can't imagine that much. The HLS median is around 3H. We can know this because if the grading was completely random (without any skewing + or -) the median would be 3.7H (37%). Introduce clustering to the top and bottom and it will go down a bit. OP is probably around 40th percentile, which is only slightly below median.

If HYS is really in a separate cluster than CCN, you would think 40th percentile at HLS should have comparable opportunities to 50th percentile at CLS.

Anonymous User
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I don't think I've ever had a 3-hour exam where I churned out fewer than 4000 words (assuming no word limit). Organization counts for a lot. Each paragraph should address a single idea. Make sure the order in which you assess issues makes sense. Emphasize dispositive issues over secondary ones. Use headings and other markers to break up the answer into digestible portions.


100% agree. Usually I throw down between 5000-9000 words on those 3 hour exams (but im not sure that volume is always a good strategy, just reporting what i've done). Gotta break it up into discrete sections as well.

azntwice
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Re: HLS 8Ps 2Hs NYC biglaw chances?

Postby azntwice » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Definitely do not compare. The curves at HLS and CLS are quite different. What gets you top 10% at HLS would be laughably high at CLS.


If you mean that it's way easier to get top 10% at Harvard than to get Kent (top 3%) at Columbia, then yes.




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